Seriously, PM light damage......nerf it PLZ!!!!

[wax_on_wax_off]

And I don't have the best-equipped PM (only 100 HP at level 8),

100 HP at level 8 and you complain about being 2 shotted?

Let me add this up.

32=8*4 for wizard levels
20=heroic vitality
16=8*2 base con of 14 (worst case scenario for a first life drow)
16=8*2 bears endurance (not possible to get a +5 item)
10=toughness
20=toughness enhancements
10=false life item
=124

Additional options ...
10=improved false life
10=pirate cove necklace
8=+2 con tome

Finally ...
11=aid potion (temporary)
13=false life (spell, temporary)

No level 8 wizard should have only 100 HP, this isn't a problem with game mechanics but a problem with your build.

[The_Brave2]

I don't think deathblock would help against undeath to death. Also I'd love to see enemy divines using Turn (Mostly dominate, I guess, since they're mostly evil). It'd be awesome if the PM in your group suddenly used FoD on your cleric and then proceeded to wail your melees. :V

Edit: Yeah, standing in a mass heal with a PM should make you die. Friendly or not. None of that immune ****.

Adding friendly fire to the game would have alot larger problems than mass heals killing your PM. lol.

interesting, does anything stop undead to death? I guess being a WF PM would be worth it then since WF are immune to it.. i think.. I dont beleive I have ever ran into an undead WF outside of questing with them lol

[Razcar]

If you add to that the fact that there is not a single other Pre that risks being one/two shotted on a regular basis and you have the complaint in a nutshell.

You seem to have forgotten to mention that no other non-healer PrE gets powerful self-healing.

And as a price you take more damage from one spell (ok, two with Sunburst) while in a toggable form. For getting quick and powerful self-healing in the rest of the game (and all the other bonuses, of course). Seems you are complaining that you didn't get a golden spoon for your russian caviar.

[pHo3nix]

I dont see a problem with it especially as almost nothing uses light damage.

Nothing uses light damage? Are we playing the same game? And no, i still haven't a PM, but mobs are spamming light spells everywhere. Not saying it's good or bad, just don't say that nothing uses searing light

[The_Brave2]

Nothing uses light damage? Are we playing the same game? And no, i still haven't a PM, but mobs are spamming light spells everywhere. Not saying it's good or bad, just don't say that nothing uses searing light

Iv already been correct enough times, I was unaware that so many quests had the light damage, being as I dont notice it as an AM.

[Drekisen]

Iv already been correct enough times, I was unaware that so many quests had the light damage, being as I dont notice it as an AM.

Which still makes me wonder why you are even commenting in a PM based thread?

[The_Brave2]

Which still makes me wonder why you are even commenting in a PM based thread?

Because my knowledge of the game and casters is still substantial. How about less personal attacks and more attacks based on facts that dont include 25 x1 = 50. mk? -_-

Edit: Iv played a PM at cap, seemed silly to level as one tho, so I do know a thing or two about PM's.

[Drekisen]

I do not know what other feats you have at the moment. I do know that lich form is the sweet spot of a PM. Vamp is just not worth it...

To be honest is not so bad that lvl 18 and 20 are the best areas of the PrE. I mean look at kensie .... Kensie II is most the gain of that PrE leaving Kensie III kind of meh. Tempest likewise, Kotc is best go full likewise AA or assasin - yet thier middle tiers less desirable... None of the PrE's are really uniform in scope tiers. I really think wizard and PM does it right in scope outside the vamp form seems the only issue within it.

Level 12 Vamp or Wraith either is 1ap Wraith is better until they address the x4 on vamp is all.

The funny thing is...when I was first making this Wiz, it was well before F2P came out and the PrE's and everything........I was actually at level 17, close to level 18 when I got back to this toon and specc'ed into PM.....so in my previous life I only played a PM from level 18-20...I was already at the sweet spot.

I'm learning slowly what's working and what's not, I knew the first thing I needed to do was acquire a greater void lore and Superior Nihil II clikies immediately so my Aura could heal me better, I can crit up to 14 a tick now, which is pretty nice.

I gotta go get some inflict potions too from the guy in House J.

I knew I would be downsizing some from a Lich with an Epic Robe of Shadow at 20 to a level 6 Zombie, I just wasn't expecting to be quite so vulnerable to the light rays.

[Drekisen]

Because my knowledge of the game and casters is still substantial. How about less personal attacks and more attacks based on facts that dont include 25 x1 = 50. mk? -_-

Edit: Iv played a PM at cap, seemed silly to level as one tho, so I do know a thing or two about PM's.

So you still don't actually know anything about leveling one.

hmmmmmm

And for someone who wants less personal attacks you sure aren't afraid to use them.....sorry about the math booboo......I believe it was you who said hardly anything in the game uses light spells.

After you actually level a PM I'll consider your input as useful.

[The_Brave2]

So you still don't actually know anything about leveling one.

hmmmmmm

Sure, I dont know anything from experience, but what experience do you have? lv.1-6 and 18-20? and the first thing you do is 'OMG NERF PL0X'

If you read my posts Alot of what I say is in favor of your suggestion, so dont be so quick to be hostile.

Another thing, your attitude needs a nerf. -_-

Edit: regardless of whether you value my opinion, My thoughts on the matter are still valid, you just dont want to accept certain points and point to what you consider to be 'experience' to invalidate my arguments.

[Truga]

Nothing uses light damage? Are we playing the same game? And no, i still haven't a PM, but mobs are spamming light spells everywhere. Not saying it's good or bad, just don't say that nothing uses searing light

I think some dudes around the game have had light damage spells added to them, but yeah, there always was quite plenty of them from about level 5 on.

In endgame, however, you only see them in some epics and running with devils (which isn't even endgame, really), which makes the vulnerability practically a non-issue for capped casters.

That's why I said, maybe scale it with levels. 25% on zombie form, 50% on wraith/vamp, 100% on lich. By the time you get lich, you can probably handle getting ray'd every now and then. Wraith is an awesome form until then, and I don't even know if +50% light damage would actually counter the fact that you get a stacking 25% miss chance. And that's ignoring all the other effects you get.

As for the undeath to death spell, I think the effect it does is, it just finishes the job for you. Undead are already dead, they just haven't had their soul separated from their material plane counterpart yet (or have had a replacement installed, in the case of raising undead minions). Undeath to death just finishes the job, and isn't really a death effect, so it shouldn't be blocked by deathblock. Should work the same with WF since apparently they also have a soul as living constructs.

That said, wizards have a high progression on a will save, so that shouldn't be too huge of an issue. Dying every now and then due to throwing a 1 can happen to anyone, this just adds another such thing. :P

[Drekisen]

Sure, I dont know anything from experience, but what experience do you have? lv.1-6 and 18-20? and the first thing you do is 'OMG NERF PL0X'

If you read my posts Alot of what I say is in favor of your suggestion, so dont be so quick to be hostile.

Another thing, your attitude needs a nerf. -_-

LOL...whatever.....the first thing you did was come in my thread and spread a blatant piece of misinformation, then come off as knowing about PM's because u played one at cap.

Guess what, halfway thru level 6 experience and 18-20 experience playing a PM is a heck of a lot more than playing one at cap.

Nope, never played a PM, never will. Sure, i might be wrong on that count, but still... 'omg im taking dmg, stop that please' is kinda... lol.

plus I am wondering about this, I thought you said you never played a PM?

Oh, and FYI, I ACTUALLY HAVE leveled a WF'ed AM all the way from level 1-20, aside from the occasional rusty there is nothing that comes close to making a WF'ed as vulnerable as a PM to a light spell.

[The_Brave2]

LOL...whatever.....the first thing you did was come in my thread and spread a blatant piece of misinformation, then come off as knowing about PM's because u played one at cap.

Guess what, halfway thru level 6 experience and 18-20 experience playing a PM is a heck of a lot more than playing one at cap.



plus I am wondering about this, I thought you said you never played a PM?

I was refrencing never playing a PM leveling, my capped PM doesnt get played anymore, hence his absence from my sig.

Leveling is 5% of the game for me ant at cap is 95%, so you can understand how light damage wouldnt mean as much to me as some1 that just constantly TR's.

Sure, I was wrong about the light damage, atleast I own up to it when I am wrong

As per the 1-6 and 18-20 being more experience, it depends on what you are planning to do. as I said, endgame is what I do, obviously the same is not for you.

[Moltier]

Please dont ask for more buffs. PMs are already very powerfull. Anymore buffs will result a hit by a nerfbat.
Im happy with this kind of weakness. At least PMs have something to fear.

[The_Brave2]

Oh, and FYI, I ACTUALLY HAVE leveled a WF'ed AM all the way from level 1-20, aside from the occasional rusty there is nothing that comes close to making a WF'ed as vulnerable as a PM to a light spell.

As I have said, the weakness is lower DC's on a WF AM, and that is more applicable at Cap. I still think that PM should be vulnerable to light damage, but not as much as right now.

Also, id appreciate you stop editing your posts without saying Edit on them, makes me think I keep missing things when I look back after posting.

I guess my question to you is:

• Why should PM get all these benefits and not have some huge shortcoming?
• PM healing over time is insanly nice for leveling, makes it more efficient to heal up inbetween fights
• PM's get basically free DPS spells while leveling, again, why no significant downside?
• It is already so easy to level as a caster, If you compare your vulnerability to a class without self healing, how much of a handicap is taking double light damage (assuming they do fix the numbers to a x2 in zomby x3 in vamp)

[Drekisen]

As I have said, the weakness is lower DC's on a WF AM, and that is more applicable at Cap. I still think that PM should be vulnerable to light damage, but not as much as right now.

Also, id appreciate you stop editing your posts without saying Edit on them, makes me think I keep missing things when I look back after posting.

I guess my question to you is:

• Why should PM get all these benefits and not have some huge shortcoming?
• PM healing over time is insanly nice for leveling, makes it more efficient to heal up inbetween fights
• PM's get basically free DPS spells while leveling, again, why no significant downside?
• It is already so easy to level as a caster, If you compare your vulnerability to a class without self healing, how much of a handicap is taking double light damage (assuming they do fix the numbers to a x2 in zomby x3 in vamp)

I'll tell you one HUGE reason, because all the stuff we get by way of Undead form immunities is EASILY obtained through items/potions/buffs for any other class.

Give me the capability to get a resist 150-200 light damage cloak by the time I hit Vampire Form and I will shut up.

Don't read my post right away BTW, ever, I edit a lot before it's the final version and I like to actually see it on the thread page completed while I am editing....it's usually to fix grammar errors.

[Drekisen]

[*]It is already so easy to level as a caster, If you compare your vulnerability to a class without self healing, how much of a handicap is taking double light damage (assuming they do fix the numbers to a x2 in zomby x3 in vamp)[/list]

With a hireling healbot, it's pretty much comical leveling any NON-PM...I'd say PM is one of the hardest to level actually in comparison......because if you get into something really dire you don't have anyone there to toss you a quick 150+ heal.....your basically on your own.

P.S. sincerely TY for not being a WF'ed minded plank with your retort.

[Dragavon]

I really am all for being more vulnerable to light damage while in PM form.....but it's crazy as it stands now, 2x-4x damage taken is simply too much.

Make it 1x-2x........seriously, player character PM's are the equivalent of red named dungeon bosses in power....maybe not mega HP-wise, but we shouldn't be equivalent to the trash.......you can't one shot those bosses unless you are doing the content way under your level....why is it we should suffer that fate.

I know I can just turn off form for situations like this and use my hireling.....but the damage taken seems a bit excessive IMO.

I know use tactics, and I do, but when you walk into a room with 2-3 casters spamming light rays...you don't even have time to think....much less react.

Pale masters are insanely powerful. They have a weak spot.

Get over it

[Forgeborn]

I'll tell you one HUGE reason, because all the stuff we get by way of Undead form immunities is EASILY obtained through items/potions/buffs for any other class.

Okay, at level 6 I'd like to see:
A +2 stat increase in con, which stacks with enhancement bonuses, ship buffs, store pots, and tomes
Heavy fortification
DR 5/slashing
An Aura that heals us of any sort

At level 12 I'd like to see;
A way to get +2 to enchantment spells, which stacks with a greater spell focus item
A +2 increase to strength and charisma, which stacks with enhancement bonuses, ship buffs, store pots, and tomes
A way to get -25% on spells threat generated

OR
A way to become 25% incorporeal
A way to get +20 to move silently

At level 18 I'd like to see:
A way to get +4 constitution which stacks with ship buffs, enhancements, store pots, and tomes

Feel free to use any of the in-game consumables, spell, or piece of equipment

[Drekisen]

Okay, at level 6 I'd like to see:
A +2 stat increase in con, which stacks with enhancement bonuses, ship buffs, store pots, and tomes
Heavy fortification
DR 5/slashing
An Aura that heals us of any sort

At level 12 I'd like to see;
A way to get +2 to enchantment spells, which stacks with a greater spell focus item
A +2 increase to strength and charisma, which stacks with enhancement bonuses, ship buffs, store pots, and tomes
A way to get -25% on spells threat generated

OR
A way to become 25% incorporeal
A way to get +20 to move silently

At level 18 I'd like to see:
A way to get +4 constitution which stacks with ship buffs, enhancements, store pots, and tomes

Feel free to use any of the in-game consumables, spell, or piece of equipment

Seeing as how PM's are on their own for heals, and have the insane vulnerability to light damage no other PrE faces even remotely closely, I really fail to see your point.