Oh come on Turbine!

[ericrd]

in reference to +1 tomes being 10k they were prior to u10.2 not anymore at least on sarlona

[Jay203]

The problem I have with that list, is every item on it with the exclusion of the +1 tomes are much, MUCH sought after in the game for other purposes.

obviously they're not going to give you purified shard for something trivial like prayer beads

i personally would have no problem trading in those stuff for the purified shards if i really do need them to craft something, i'm not going to lvl my crafting with recipes that uses them for sure

[TheDearLeader]

obviously they're not going to give you purified shard for something trivial like prayer beads

i personally would have no problem trading in those stuff for the purified shards if i really do need them to craft something, i'm not going to lvl my crafting with recipes that uses them for sure

And what happens when the Purified recipes end up dominating the level range you're in? Naturally, you'll head over to the Unbound Crafting altar, yes. But it was nice when we could craft a little bit from both sides.

[Postumus]

Oh, and : I get paid to write papers, too. I don't get paid to post on the forums.

Did you want a cookie?

[TheDearLeader]

Did you want a cookie?

You weren't a party to the conversation at hand, so I'll take this as trolling. Please, don't troll. Thank you in advance.

[Bilger]

You are the exact reason I state that if they truly want to balance/fix crafting, they need to start everybody at level zero again.

Players such as you, that slam leveled in crafting are the only ones that are going to be able to use the system if it stays on it's current trend.

since 10.2 more people have walked away from crafting than gone back to it.

Can you figure out why that is now?

So the people who have put in time and effort and used alot of loot and game time and such get %@#$%$%.

Seriously its to early for such rashness.

It's called beta for a reason.

Seriously if turbine started people back at 0 they would really upset alot of people and lose some paying customers in process.

I haven't got past low 30's and won't craft anymore till this settles into it's finality if ever does.

It just changing too much for atm will hold off for a bit.

But, to call for everyone to get dropped to 0 is extreme and bad idea.

[puget]

So the people who have put in time and effort and used alot of loot and game time and such get %@#$%$%.

Seriously its to early for such rashness.

It's called beta for a reason.

Seriously if turbine started people back at 0 they would really upset alot of people and lose some paying customers in process.

I haven't got past low 30's and won't craft anymore till this settles into it's finality if ever does.

It just changing too much for atm will hold off for a bit.

But, to call for everyone to get dropped to 0 is extreme and bad idea.

I said that is the only way they will ever be able to fix/balance it the way they want.

Or they can just bump people down to level 50 again, so they have to go through the leveling changes and can give unbiased opinions of it. Like you said, it IS BETA. Of course people are going to be upset, just like people are upset right now though as well.

But I do agree with you exactly, I won't craft a thing anymore until they DO get it to an end product.

[Bilger]

I said that is the only way they will ever be able to fix/balance it the way they want.

Or they can just bump people down to level 50 again, so they have to go through the leveling changes and can give unbiased opinions of it. Like you said, it IS BETA. Of course people are going to be upset, just like people are upset right now though as well.

But I do agree with you exactly, I won't craft a thing anymore until they DO get it to an end product.

How will that fix/balance it?

It won't the people who got there did it through loot(which got through reg questing) and time spent crafting shards and such.(and some store buying = rl money)

Punishing them would be such a bad idea even though is beta.

Unless turbine finds a way to refund the plat and time put in and rl money for item some bought in store then it is very bad idea.

Atleast thats my OP and I know personally have friends at extremely high lvls and be p o for them if they did.

Which turbine won't because I hope they see the big picture and trouble it would cause.

[puget]

How will that fix/balance it?

It won't the people who got there did it through loot(which got through reg questing) and time spent crafting shards and such.(and some store buying = rl money)

Punishing them would be such a bad idea even though is beta.

Unless turbine finds a way to refund the plat and time put in and rl money for item some bought in store then it is very bad idea.

Atleast thats my OP and I know personally have friends at extremely high lvls and be p o for them if they did.

Which turbine won't because I hope they see the big picture and trouble it would cause.

Most (well, I shouldn't say most, since most do not post in the forums, but Most of the forum posting ones) that are in the forums saying the changes are minor, suck it up, deal with it, are also in the minority of crafters out there.

Again, this is a greater resist item, that I have non hope of crafting anytime while it is useful.

There is a major imbalance in crafting between the haves, and have nots, the mats required for some items vs the necessity to have it. And I am just saying, and we all know it, the only way to really balance AND fix crafting to be the way they want is to start over at zero. Now, whether they do that today, tomorrow, or once crafting comes out of beta is really the question.

I would rather they could do everything they needed, but they are not getting unbiased feedback anymore, not in my opinion.

[ferrite]

I hate to say this, because alot of people have leveled pretty high in crafting, but if you REALLY want to fix/balance crafting, then you need to start over from level ZERO for everyone.

I know nobody wants to hear that, but really, it is the only way to do it, the way it is now only a select few players are leveled high enough to do anything useful with the system.

An interesting idea but I think if they did that a lot of players would simply quit the game.

I know I probably would since I had worked to get my Arcane crafting to a point where I could make +5. To see those efforts undone simply because a few players were dissatisfied with it would not be fair to most of the players who have already been crafting. And the fact it is 'beta' is not a valid argument since its on the live server.

I would agree that it seems unbalanced, but this I feel is due to the mistake of allowing guild crafters since those efforts are concentrated into a single high-powered crafter, that might be what you are seeing at this point. Its probably also the reason why devs got nervous and put up these high cost barriers to deter it, which hurts everyone. But there's no reasonable way around this, unless you btc or bta essences, but then you wind up destroying the crafting market and forcing players into it since they accumulate unwanted essences they cannot sell.

Just a side effect of mixing guilds with an unbound crafting system.. it was bound to happen.

[puget]

An interesting idea but I think if they did that a lot of players would simply quit the game.

I know I probably would since I had worked to get my Arcane crafting to a point where I could make +5. To see those efforts undone simply because a few players were dissatisfied with it would not be fair to most of the players who have already been crafting. And the fact it is 'beta' is not a valid argument since its on the live server.

I would agree that it seems unbalanced, but this I feel is due to the mistake of allowing guild crafters since those efforts are concentrated into a single high-powered crafter, that might be what you are seeing at this point. Its probably also the reason why devs got nervous and put up these high cost barriers to deter it, which hurts everyone. But there's no reasonable way around this, unless you btc or bta essences, but then you wind up destroying the crafting market and forcing players into it since they accumulate unwanted essences they cannot sell.

Just a side effect of mixing guilds with an unbound crafting system.. it was bound to happen.

Well, I kind of feel that allowing unbound shards was sort of the root cause of all the evil personally. I truly feel that leveling crafting is something a person should do because THEY want the items, not so they can make them for others, because like you said, now people don't even have to level crafting AT ALL and they can reap the benefits for being in a guild.

That is just my opinion. They could have left unbound shards out, and still made leveling a massive chore without all the rare/raid drops required.


EDIT: I felt they had a good balancing system for the unbound shard system when they were using new rare drops like the mystical urn, but I also feel those same rare ings should not be BTA even if they are quest end rewards, this way ALL players could have a chance to obtain them, even if only via the AH.

[SiliconScout]

Personally I can't understand why they didn't see this coming.

The second I saw the "unbound" crafting areas when it first showed up I saw that as a serious game breaker.

You want to fix it you make it so there is no unbound shard crafting.

Perhaps have a drop that has say the same chance as a bloodstone but could drop from any chest that can drop essences. That drop is capable of making any one shard change from bound to account to unbound.

Problem solved, unbound crafting becomes VERY rare and sure those items are gonna be pricy in the AH but good on ya. For the +5 Holy GEOB weapon you are gonna need 3 of them.

Also make the rare components for making the shards actually be in the build recepie instead of the shard recepie. This way you don't punish the new guys any more than the guys who power leveled. AND you still slow down those guys who crafted a bunch of the shards before the rare loot costs were added.

Seems like a pretty simple solution to me. Yeah you kill the shard crafting market but it solves the problem.

Alternately make is so you can't craft any unbound shard of +3 or higher effect. Lets crafters make the lowbie trash for a price (and fairly easily) but keeps the really powerful stuff rare enough.

[puget]

Personally I can't understand why they didn't see this coming.

The second I saw the "unbound" crafting areas when it first showed up I saw that as a serious game breaker.

You want to fix it you make it so there is no unbound shard crafting.

Perhaps have a drop that has say the same chance as a bloodstone but could drop from any chest that can drop essences. That drop is capable of making any one shard change from bound to account to unbound.

Problem solved, unbound crafting becomes VERY rare and sure those items are gonna be pricy in the AH but good on ya. For the +5 Holy GEOB weapon you are gonna need 3 of them.

Also make the rare components for making the shards actually be in the build recepie instead of the shard recepie. This way you don't punish the new guys any more than the guys who power leveled. AND you still slow down those guys who crafted a bunch of the shards before the rare loot costs were added.

Seems like a pretty simple solution to me. Yeah you kill the shard crafting market but it solves the problem.

Alternately make is so you can't craft any unbound shard of +3 or higher effect. Lets crafters make the lowbie trash for a price (and fairly easily) but keeps the really powerful stuff rare enough.

Every word you stated I can agree with. Even the unbound cap at +3(with effects or without though? I say with) so the the leveling character market can benefit, and those that did actually work for it (I have no issue with you guys that have high crafting, and respect that you do, please do not think I don't, you DID use the proper and available means to get there.) can still make them/sell them, just not the high power stuff.

Unbound shards to me, as implemented, is like handing someone a bunch of GS mats I made, and asking them to bring me a LitII??? (I will never obtain one as a solo player) heavy pick.

[EllisDee37]

But there's no reasonable way around this, unless you btc or bta essences,

There are reasonable ways around this; the devs just happened to choose the most unreasonable one of all.

You could revert all recipes to 9.2 and...

...add all the pay to win bottlenecks (astral diamonds?!) to shards of potential. Leveling stays largely as it always was -- long and grindy but reasonably achievable -- while actually creating items with your shards is much more expensive.

...add a shard timer to shards of potential, much like a raid timer. You can make as many high-powered items as you please, but it'll take forever and a day to flood the market.

...add all the pay to win bottlenecks to item crafting. Leveling stays as it always was -- making shards is long and grindy but reasonably achievable -- while actually creating items with your shards is much more expensive.

What did they do instead? Drastically increase the cost of leveling, which does virtually nothing to address the imaginary problem that spooked the devs despite never existing in the first place. Nobody was ever going to flood the market with high-powered crafted DR breakers because there is zero profit in it due to the extreme cost of making them in unbound form back in the 9.2 system. They really, really screwed up a system that was actually pretty darn good for absolutely no good reason.

[FastTaco]

I was surprised today when I made my Greater Necromancy focus Trinket of Good luck +2... no special ingredients required nor very high levels of crafting... but Greater Resists cost a purified shard and 89+ on crafting levels?

[rvdvelden]

What if they remove the rare ingredients, but ONLY from bound shards? People that want to grind in order to get high level shards can be satisfied, but if you want to sell shards or give them to guild members, you better bring a goodie bag of rare ingredients with you. This way, you prevent a flood of the market of high powered shards and in the same time keep cannith crafting a reasonable alternative for GS crafting.

[puget]

What if they remove the rare ingredients, but ONLY from bound shards? People that want to grind in order to get high level shards can be satisfied, but if you want to sell shards or give them to guild members, you better bring a goodie bag of rare ingredients with you. This way, you prevent a flood of the market of high powered shards and in the same time keep cannith crafting a reasonable alternative for GS crafting.

I wouldn't say so much remove the rare ingredients, just stop adding rare ingredients that already have a high enough demand for other uses. The rare ingredients they came up with as 'special quest end rewards' from certain zones were PERFECT. I mean perfect for this new crafting. Just make them unbound so they can be traded and sold to other players, then eliminate unbound shards, and you instantly have a system that would STILL be a major grind, still be a PITA to GET to those high levels to make anything useful..............

But you would only be making useful things for yourself, not for everyone else. I really feel that crafting should NOT be there for you to craft items to profit off of other people/ guild members by crafting them pre raid gear. They should craft their own stuff, same as GS.

I want GS crafting to also make non bound items as well. I don't mean a blank here and there, I mean I don't want to run any raids to get the gear, I want someone else to do the work and bring me some GS weapons, and anything else. Let's make EVERYTHING fair here. If davey can make me unbound shards, so I don't have to do it and get to those levels myself, then Johnny should be able to sell GS items as well, so I don't have to run any raids, or mess with any altars.

I want to pay to win using other peoples crafting, because I don't want to level mine.


Unbound shards are pay to win. Toss in the ings they have tossed in that have a demand several other places in the game, and now we have not only increased the cost of making the shards, but they have successfully increased the cost of GS items as well, by reducing the number available for GS crafters.

I thought when crafting came out, this was an option for players to make THEMSELVES some decent gear, not to make it for others.

[Bufo_Alvarius]

cool,
I Want All My Gear Back That I Melted Anyway.

B
E
T
A

[Gremmlynn]

I wouldn't say so much remove the rare ingredients, just stop adding rare ingredients that already have a high enough demand for other uses. The rare ingredients they came up with as 'special quest end rewards' from certain zones were PERFECT. I mean perfect for this new crafting. Just make them unbound so they can be traded and sold to other players, then eliminate unbound shards, and you instantly have a system that would STILL be a major grind, still be a PITA to GET to those high levels to make anything useful..............

Except that those ingredients are not particularly rare, nor were they intended to be. We will never see them unbound as that would defeat the purpose they were put in for. The only purpose for those ingredients was to limit crafting particular shards to those who had access to the adventure pack they drop in. Of course one ugly side effect of this was to limit crafting to those characters high enough level to run those areas, but that can probably be fixed.

[puget]

Except that those ingredients are not particularly rare, nor were they intended to be. We will never see them unbound as that would defeat the purpose they were put in for. The only purpose for those ingredients was to limit crafting particular shards to those who had access to the adventure pack they drop in. Of course one ugly side effect of this was to limit crafting to those characters high enough level to run those areas, but that can probably be fixed.

Which also removes any player that doesn't have/cannot afford to get the packs they drop in. That was why I was saying make those ings unbound, same as taps, shreds, funk....etc. etc..Or make them unbound rare drops from chests in the zones as unbound instead of quest chain end rewards.