Cleave, Sap, or Two Handed Fighting?

[LazyMantis]

Hello Melee,
I have a little fightin' cleric who I'd like to splash with a 2nd level of fighter. I'm thinking Cleave, Sap or Two Handed Fighting might work best for me, but I don't have much experience with melee feats. Can you give me an idea of how they work in the game? My lil' dwarven dude is focused on healing and melee with some decent casting on the side. He's got a decent STR(18) so far. Does THF really improve your DPS that much? Is Sap useful? Or as a Great Axe swinging Holy mofo does Cleave make more sense? Any ideas you have are welcome.
Thanks.

[Balkas]

Do you have Improved Critical yet?

THF adds a small amount of damage to glancing blows.

Sap is a no save crowd control ability that is mostly useful while soloing.

Cleave smacks lots of things in front of you.

Out of those 3, I'd probably take Cleave, but I would personally probably take another Toughness feat over any of those 3 feats.

[somenewnoob]

Out of those 3 I would take cleave UNLESS you have a useless shield and then i would take THF. I know my cleric slots devotion on her shield, so I would go with cleave so I could keep devotion on my shield.

[whomhead]

Out of those 3, I'd probably take Cleave, but I would personally probably take another Toughness feat over any of those 3 feats.

Toughness is not an option for the fighter bonus feats, so that's probably not happening.

To the OP: I would first ask why you want to take a second level of fighter? The 19 cleric, 1 fighter split is a great build, and you may be losing more than you gain by splashing a second level.

If you are intent on a 2 fighter splash, then I would second the suggestion for Improved Critical for your weapon type. That will do much more for you than any of the others, though Cleave is a good alternative.

The only problem with THF is that the benefit of that line is heavily back-loaded. That means if you aren't taking all 3 feats, it is likely not worth it to take any of them.

[dkyle]

Toughness is not an option for the fighter bonus feats, so that's probably not happening.

To the OP: I would first ask why you want to take a second level of fighter? The 19 cleric, 1 fighter split is a great build, and you may be losing more than you gain by splashing a second level.

If you are intent on a 2 fighter splash, then I would second the suggestion for Improved Critical for your weapon type. That will do much more for you than any of the others, though Cleave is a good alternative.

If he doesn't have Improved Critical I'd say a second Fighter is much better than 19 Cleric. 19 Cleric gains very little, while I'd consider Improved Critical mandatory for any bona fide melee character.

The only problem with THF is that the benefit of that line is heavily back-loaded. That means if you aren't taking all 3 feats, it is likely not worth it to take any of them.

And more than that, it only helps if you stand still and attack with glances. Which means not twitching.

So if you have no feats, twitching is much better than standing still. Even with one feat, twitching is still very likely to beat standing still

[Rawrargh]

I'm currently at 18/1 cleric/fighter, I took the fighter level at 12 so I could get improved critical and greataxe proficiency at the same time as my GS greataxe became available. The plan was going 18/2 but I'm kinda leaning towards skipping the second fighter level since I'm getting pretty good at twitching and I don't feel the need for the THF feat.
There is a valid point in skipping the 19 cleric as the only thing it does is add to your dc's along with a couple of extra SP.

*edit* And one thing the guy above me forgot to mention. Unless you have a DR breaker the glancing blows from only one level of THF is kinda useless.

[dkyle]

There is a valid point in skipping the 19 cleric as the only thing it does is add to your dc's along with a couple of extra SP.

Adds 1 to your spell pen checks. It does nothing for your DCs.

[LazyMantis]

Thanks for your comments everyone. I haven't even decided if i'm going to add a 2nd level of fighter. I'm just playing around with it now and all I wanted was some ideas about how useful these were in the game. I hadn't even considered Improved Critical, what with this being my first non -pure spellcaster. Thanks again, this gives me something to think about while I'm roaming around the Necropolis.

[FrozenNova]

Dwarven 18/2 Battlecleric
9 feats
1 Toughness
2 Power attack
3 THF
4 ITHF
5 GTHF
6 Improved critical
7 Empower Healing
8 Maximize
9 Quicken
And you're out. Dropping any of those would be a bad idea.
Drop any of the first six and you're missing the battle. Any of the latter three and you've forgotton the cleric.

The alternative: get very used to twitching all the time.
1 Toughness
2 Power Attack
3 Improved critical
4 Maximize
5 Empower
6 Quicken
7 Empowered healing...
8 & 9? Cleave & Great cleave? Eh. The former feels like a better option. Though this choice would be capable of putting out more single target dps between cleave twitching and empower.