Eschew Materials

[nat_1]

snip

Like I said, I don't value a feat that has its primary benefit in between quests. As was mentioned, you can ctrl + click to get the window that lets you type in an amount. EM doesn't relieve you of the need to restock wands and pots, so you're still making the trip to the vendor. And the time to do this can be when you're waiting for a group to fill.

better yet, post the name of all your characters in this thread so i can blacklist them.

All my toons are public on myddo, enjoy. I only really play on G-land, most others were TP farmers. Care to elucidate on what you find squelchable?

[rjbutchko]

Devs have commented that the current engine doesn't support using items from within a bag very well. Spell Component bags were troublesome, and therefor put on the back burner.

Since Cannith crafting now allows for items to be removed from a bag without incident, maybe we can get component bags soon?

Of course, this means we would have to settle for an exclusive, BTC four slot bag availabe for free in game untill we spend 395 TP on a "huge" bag with ten slots.

[Diib]

I always take eschew materials on any of my bank toons. Its easier to pick up 150 house k favor with a caster, and I'm looking for all the bank/bag space I can get.


The real question is how much time do you have to play? When my play time is limited, eschew materials is a life saver. If I only have 2 hours to play in a week, I dont want to spend ANY of that time running between shops, and I want as big an inventory as possible so I only have to do one inventory dump for my precious play session. At times like this, I could care less what some min/maxer with 40+ hours a week to dump into this game thinks is most optimal...


If your life allows you to waste the extra time running between shops for spell components, more power to you. I work 80 hours a week, and I'd rather drop one feat (ESPECIALLY on a wizard) then waste ANY time dealing with vendors.

YMMV

[Isolani]

Great points OP. Well thought out post.

Eschew is just one of those feats that doesn't translate into the video game genre well where everything is basically weightless and without mass.

My ingredients bag + collectibles bag weigh more than 400 lbs...forget eschew materials, they need to make all this collectible/crafting junk weightless.

[DragonKiller]

On my lvl 20 Wiz, I took Eschew because...

1) I'm a loot wh0re. 9 spaces = more loot!
2) I don't primarily play a caster, so when I log in and play him it's generally to fill a specific need, or possibly farming. Therefore I don't watch his components that well.
3) Wizard... lot's of meta magic feats, and I already have all the important ones... quicken, maximize, empowered, heighten, and still have extend.
4) Loot.. whhhhhoooooore.

Now on my wizy rogue I don't have it, and I wouldn't take it on a Sorc, Cleric of FvS. But a pure wizard? Throw it on the pile!!!

[xtchizobr]

All my toons are public on myddo, enjoy. I only really play on G-land, most others were TP farmers. Care to elucidate on what you find squelchable?

not you, the people who take eschew.

[nat_1]

I always take eschew materials on any of my bank toons. Its easier to pick up 150 house k favor with a caster, and I'm looking for all the bank/bag space I can get.


The real question is how much time do you have to play? When my play time is limited, eschew materials is a life saver. If I only have 2 hours to play in a week, I dont want to spend ANY of that time running between shops, and I want as big an inventory as possible so I only have to do one inventory dump for my precious play session. At times like this, I could care less what some min/maxer with 40+ hours a week to dump into this game thinks is most optimal...


If your life allows you to waste the extra time running between shops for spell components, more power to you. I work 80 hours a week, and I'd rather drop one feat (ESPECIALLY on a wizard) then waste ANY time dealing with vendors.

YMMV

Thanks for all the replies, I hope people will read them since I plan to link this when EM debates come up in group (this has happened 3 times to me).

Again, I can't buy the "vendor time" argument.

1. You will end up at a vendor for wands and scrolls anyway.
2. As a wizard, the class that could actually fit EM, you will be buying inscription materials once per level. These are sold at the same place as components.

The bank toon idea is a sound one, thanks for making me realize that I could free up some slots on my unused wizard who has become a bank toon by trashing their components.

not you, the people who take eschew.

lol my bad.

[Bilger]

EM is a complete waste on any wiz I would rather up my spell pen, spell dc, or spell power overall than have free component use.

There is always a better feat to take I have a PM capped and still feat starved.

Wish could fit more focus or pen in, but there nm what people say enough feats to get everything for a epic or elite caster to get what all ya want from focuses on.

[munificence]

Even Mental Gimpness and Improved Mental Gimpness are better options than Eschew Materials.

[Crazyfruit]

Eschew Materials is one of the best feats in the game.

I take it on all my sp users. Unlike most, which just add a +1 to something, it changes how you can play the game.

Spellcasters only need Empower & Maximize. The rest is all fluff. Some people want the game easier so they get extra HP from toughness, spell pen, quicken or more spell focuses. Some of us prefer other things. My last caster also had Enlarge (which is awesome, though less useful now with the ray change) & they take a bunch of gimpy past life feats just for fun - currently Student of the Sword so I don't have to bother with Divine Power clickies, and Arcane Prodigy because I like shooting out firework sprays of colors whenever I want.

I play DDO in Alt-z mode. One hotbar, never paying attention to my inventory unless it says it's full. I don't wait for people before quests, just hop in one and play. If I join a lfm I ask if they mind if I start & hop out if they're waiting 20 mins for a full group. My own are always "in progress, byoh".

With crafting now eschew means 4-9 more slots available, which means another 2 to 3 quests before I have to visit the Cannith Crafting hall.

My characters use vampiric weapons, wear regen (Fyi for anyone: Repair Systems doesn't stack with Greater Regeneration), lifeshields, and carry around a full bag of hirelings if I might need heals. I haven't visited a vendor in 3 weeks.

No downtime & no inventory management at all, unless I feel like deconstructing stuff for crafting - which usually onyl happens when I join a lfm & feel like waiting. The guild ship is even set up so I can grab my resists on the main deck if I feel like it, exp shrine next to the captain, and away I go. All questing dungeon fun, all the time.

For me, no longer wasting 2 minutes at a vendor every couple hours to stock up on stuff is well worth a feat slot.

[Xioden]

I'm sort of tempted to say make it a free feat, and for it to function similar to precision/power attack/whatever that gets toggled on. Then simply have the spells damage reduced proportionally to the components:

Somatic/Material=50% damage reduction
Verbal/Somatic/Material= 33% damage reduction.

For DC based effects, possibly decrease the spell DC by 2-3.

[xtchizobr]

...

yeah, sometimes i get in the mood for a not-so-retro first person, single-player RPG too. because roleplaying in casual mode all by myself is almost as fun as having a chat over tea'n'biscuits with the fairies in the garden...

[Wizzly_Bear]

Further, I constantly run into people, even "hardcore," who run out of components. With EM I never run out. Also, the buying wand/scroll anyway argument - I don't. And the inscription materials? Inscribe everything at level 1 and be done with it.

For me...
*9 inventory slots = more questing before cleaning inventory = less time spent not questing = more game time spent actually playing
*9 frequently used consumables not being consumed = less time checking inventory and less time refilling consumables = less time spent not questing = more game time spent actually playing.

To me, it would be ridiculous not to take EM.

[jaegarnel]

To all the people claiming that EM saves time to go to vendors, you are

1.really lucky and have zero downtime between quests ever. Personally even if I solo quests one after the other, there'll usually be running involved, and I'll go near a vendor at some point. Might as well take 10 sec to refill on needed stuff.
If I decide to group, there will usually be lots of waiting involved anyway, for people to run to the quest and so on, might as well shop then.

2. such great players that you never need pots of any kind, or scrolls, or wands and therefore never go to a vendor for any other reason than to buy spell components. Unless of course you're entirely reliant on the divines in your party to heal you, and you don't do anything when you run out of sp.

3. maybe not aware that any arcane (or toon with enough UMD) can use teleport to get to a vendor area where you can quickly buy everything you might need.

As for running out of spell components, yes that happened to me. Once. When I was level 3 and just starting.
Since then, I've made sure to buy components in stacks of 900 and to refill during any downtime, which is fairly often since PUGs in any level range aren't THAT common. I've never know anyone else to run out of components in a long time either.

As for the 9 inventory slots saved (10 with stone skin actually), except on a bank toon, when's the last time you actually filled your whole 5 bags of inventory with valuable stuff? Maybe you should take some time to learn what is valuable, and leave the rest in chests.

The fact is that EM is the single least effective feat you could take on a caster, even for wizards who have lots of them. Some other feats may not make much of a difference (though personally, on my lvl 20 wizard I never felt like I had too many feats and could afford to waste some on useless stuff), but they at least improve your character in some way. EM doesn't.

[PrismaticSneeze]

Due to how they basically gave us free Enlarges on all our ranged spells, we should just get Escew as a free feat.
Why do we get free Sunder and Trip? These should be replaced by Escew and Enlarge, while Sunder and Trip be restricted to other classes. It makes no sense for wizards and sorcerers to have feats for which they traditionally have no experience to study.

Yeah honestly giving sorcs sunder and trip is just ridiculous. I would love Eschew as a free feat. Especially since the idea of a sorc having to use components just irritates me on a basic "the concept of this class" level.

But even that irritation isn't enough to waste a feat on something that should be free (and has so little effect in general on the game), at the very least for sorcs and probably for wizards too (if later in their class progression).

[Jaid314]

aaaaaaaaaah! zombie thread! kill it with fire!

[HastyPudding]

Oh look, another first poster has necro'd a thread. How nice.


On topic...9 slots in a bag is not a nightmare. On the other hand, I would totally buy a spell component bag from the DDO store to free up space.

[Matuse]

I found the "reduce downtime" argument to be hilarious. I run out of spell components maybe once every other month. Oh boy, I'm saving 4-5 seconds per day of time at a vendor!

[Lord_Thanatos]

I found the "reduce downtime" argument to be hilarious. I run out of spell components maybe once every other month. Oh boy, I'm saving 4-5 seconds per day of time at a vendor!

Or ignoring the fact that you most likely are still going to want to stock up on scrolls and/or wands at some point, which is the perfect time to check and get more components.

[Zachski]

I like how Pathfinder handled Eschew Materials.

Basically, it's a passive feat instead of an active feat. You have it, and you automatically don't need to use non-expensive materials to cast spells. No need to cast a spell a level higher, either.

Further, all Sorcerers automatically start with Eschew Materials, because of the fact that their magic is inherent.

In practice, it mostly means that you can cast spells that require components when you don't have access to your Schrodingers' Components Pouch.

I have no idea how this would affect DDO if it were implemented in such a way. While it doesn't gut me to have to buy spell components, it is incredibly annoying to do so, and the missing item slots can be a bit annoying.

The only annoying thing about min-maxing is that you sacrifice convenience for power, though. And unfortunately, I'm a habitual min-maxer, even if I'm rolling based on flavor instead of, well, flavor of the month.