Confused about PM and race

[Kinryu]

I'm curious on making a Pale Master wizard, but I've been having troubles understanding certain concepts.

As I understand it, when PM are in their "undead" form they receive their healing from negative energy spells and not from cure spells (or repair for warforged). Is this correct?

If the above is true, is there any significant advantage to playing a PM as a warforged vs. a flesh race (ie. drow)? I'm aware of the WF immunities and such. I'm simply wondering in regards to healing purposes.

[Gkar]

You basically have it. For a PM you either go drow or human. Drow gets you +1 int (which may or may not get you 1 DC), human gets you +1 con, +toughness enhancements, +20 skill points, +feat. I'm sure there is a really cool helf dili option too.

WF...naw, thats for AM.

[The_Brave2]

I'm curious on making a Pale Master wizard, but I've been having troubles understanding certain concepts.

As I understand it, when PM are in their "undead" form they receive their healing from negative energy spells and not from cure spells (or repair for warforged). Is this correct?

If the above is true, is there any significant advantage to playing a PM as a warforged vs. a flesh race (ie. drow)? I'm aware of the WF immunities and such. I'm simply wondering in regards to healing purposes.

While a PM is in their undead form, most likley lich, they receive healing only from neg energy, which you have as a burst spell that will heal you and damage enemies around you. you also receive an aura that heals you over time.

Being WF as a PM is not the best choice because being a PM you get a ton of immunities from being in lich form, immunity from stun/trip being the highlights. Your best bet is to go human for the extra feat and higher DC's.

[Kinryu]

Ok, thanks for the quick response. I wanted to make sure that I was on the right track.

[Kinryu]

Being WF as a PM is not the best choice because being a PM you get a ton of immunities from being in lich form, immunity from stun/trip being the highlights. Your best bet is to go human for the extra feat and higher DC's.

By the sounds of it, human seems to be more beneficial over drow. The +1 int, although good, seems to be outweighed by the other human benefits.

Though...I've seen debates on both...

[fool101]

Or....

if a first lifer, go elf for more spell pen. it is very difficult to achieve max DCs anyway your first run through, and spell pen can make a big difference as you approach level 20. Plus, Lich form helps offset the con restrictions a normal elf may have - although technically that is ubiquitous across race

[jaegarnel]

Either drow or human works very well, just go with the race you like most.
Human may be slightly better due to higher hp (since some PMs will end up tanking, hp is very important; you need to survive stuff to self-heal from it) and the extra feat, but it's still mostly a flavor choice.

As good as pale masters are currently at end game, I'm sure even suboptimal races like elves or halfling can work well too. Just pick what seems most fun to you.

[Enoach]

Warforge

Gain the least by going Pale Master as many of the immunities and benefits of self healing already exist. However, this is the only drawback. Benefit being they get self healing options in either form. Sometimes there is a reason to not be in undead form as it makes the wizard a higher liability...

However, AM could potentially increase the SP pool to allow more other stuff +Healing keeping the SP from being too tight.

Drow

Hightest Potential Int

Human

Gains one additional feat on one of the highest feat classes 13 feats vs 12 feats

With a +3 Tome can match the DC of a Drow with a +3 tome, falls behind by 1 DC when +4 tomes are involved (All aspects besides starting int being equal)

Elf

Gains Racial Enhancements that add Spell Points as well as Spell Penetration for each tier purchased - thus has a potential of gain +4 Spell Penetration more then any other Race for wizards (again all other aspects being equal such as past lives)

Half-Elf

With a +3 Tome can match the DC of a Drow with a +3 tome, falls behind by 1 DC when +4 tomes are involved

Dilletants - While not as open as the human's additional Feat can add additional flavor depending on initial stats. Such as additional HP and DR from Barbarian, Divine Scroll/Wand capabilities from Cleric/FvS, Saves from Paladin, AC from Monk, Weapon proficency and skills from Fighter + others

[Kinryu]

That's all been quite helpful. Thanks. Now I have the task to determining a race. I think it's a toss up between human and elf. More HP vs better spell pen... This is going to be a TR from a fighter actually (if that has any bearing).

[Vellrad]

Or join dwarf- the master race and enjoy sick amount of HP, sick saves, and sick hardness.

[gloopygloop]

While a PM is in their undead form, most likley lich, they receive healing only from neg energy, which you have as a burst spell that will heal you and damage enemies around you. you also receive an aura that heals you over time.

Being WF as a PM is not the best choice because being a PM you get a ton of immunities from being in lich form, immunity from stun/trip being the highlights. Your best bet is to go human for the extra feat and higher DC's.

I really like my Warforged Pale Master because I'm not always in Undead form.

When I'm in toaster form, I can reconstruct myself.
When I'm in undead form, I can use my own negative energy spells to take care of myself.

And I get the nice immunities to lots of effects in both forms.

[Doganpc]

Your best bet is to go human for the extra feat and higher DC's.

Pretty sure this is wrong, just so happens that 19 vs 20 isn't a difference when you add all the stackable bonuses.

Or join dwarf- the master race and enjoy sick amount of HP, sick saves, and sick hardness.

Thats what I did on my alt server, he's on the necromancy path laid out by Turbine... it makes me laugh to level him up.

I really like my Warforged Pale Master because I'm not always in Undead form.

When I'm in toaster form, I can reconstruct myself.
When I'm in undead form, I can use my own negative energy spells to take care of myself.

And I get the nice immunities to lots of effects in both forms.

Uh... via the wiki
Immune to Sleep, Hold Person, Energy Drained, Nauseated, Exhausted, Poison, Disease, and Paralyzed effects.
Immunity to spells targeting a humanoid.
A Warforged can remain underwater indefinitely (no oxygen bar displayed).

I wouldn't give up Reconstruct and abundant AOE Heals going to other players anyway for +2 Necro DC. Not to mention Arch Mages SLA's getting free Metamagic.


Dogan.
Been wrong before, doesn't faze me.

[gloopygloop]

Pretty sure this is wrong, just so happens that 19 vs 20 isn't a difference when you add all the stackable bonuses.

Any time a Warforged would have an odd Int, the Human will have +1 DC becuase of the racial +1 Int enhancement available to the human.

Uh... via the wiki
Immune to Sleep, Hold Person, Energy Drained, Nauseated, Exhausted, Poison, Disease, and Paralyzed effects.
Immunity to spells targeting a humanoid.
A Warforged can remain underwater indefinitely (no oxygen bar displayed).

I wouldn't give up Reconstruct and abundant AOE Heals going to other players anyway for +2 Necro DC. Not to mention Arch Mages SLA's getting free Metamagic.


Dogan.
Been wrong before, doesn't faze me.

The big bonuses that a WF gets in my book are immunity to holds and immunity to negative levels. Pale Masters in undead form get those too.

Also, I'm not really giving up Reconstruct - I'm just trading it for the negative energy auras and an occasional negative energy burst. That's plenty to keep me alive in any non-epic quest that doesn't have casters spamming Sunburst or Searing Light.

Also, I really like the +2 DC on my necromancy spells and I like having the ability to chug Yugo Int potions without worrying about fortification. +3 DC makes a big difference in a lot of content.

[Delt]

The only downside to WF palemasters is they don't look nearly as cool while in undead form.

The end.

[Doganpc]

Any time a Warforged would have an odd Int, the Human will have +1 DC becuase of the racial +1 Int enhancement available to the human.

Was high on Drow vs Human when I read that the first pass... cause its at the time it looked liked the discussion was circling fleshies. Then again not everyone thinks Drow is a viable race in this game.

As for the rest. Kudos, if that is how you want to play more power to ya. "I wouldn't"

Dogan
I am entitled to my own thoughts.

[danlan]

WF gives you the nice option of going Archmage later,

Archmage: 1.Better survivability than any PM
2. Necro DC capped at 44 in comparision to 45 of human/drow
3. Enchantment secondary focus gives practically +3 dc to enchantment and free irresistible dance, quite stronger cc (I dont think web is competitve personally, tho can still manage 41 dc web)
4. About 300 more sp

[gloopygloop]

WF gives you the nice option of going Archmage later,

Archmage: 1.Better survivability than any PM
2. Necro DC capped at 44 in comparision to 45 of human/drow
3. Enchantment secondary focus gives practically +3 dc to enchantment and free irresistible dance, quite stronger cc (I dont think web is competitve personally, tho can still manage 41 dc web)
4. About 300 more sp

I do like Archmage and I think that it has a lot of good things going for it (especially the infinite webs that you can fling with the Spiderman school focus), but a few of those things you listed really aren't actually points in favor of Archmage over Pale Master so much as points in favor of Archmage vs. not having a PrE at all.

Archmage PrE gives +2 DC to the primary spell school and +1 DC to the secondary spell school on top of the Spell Focus feats. Since a Pale Master can take those same Spell Focus feats, only the +2 DC from the PrE is an advantage to the AM.

Pale Master gets +1 DC to all schools from the +2 Int granted by Lich form. Pale Master gets an additional +1 DC from Yugo pots that an Archmage may have trouble using because of the Fortification penalty. That puts the Pale Master up 2 points of DC compared to the Archmage in all schools except for the AM specialty school and the PM is still even with the AM even in the that school. The PM also gets an additional +1 to Necromancy DCs from the Lich form on top of the previously listed bonuses.

My Pale Master used to be an Archmage. None of his spell DCs went down when he switched over to Pale Master. Most of them went up. He was Enchantment + Necro focused. Now he's Necro + Enchantment focused. Amusingly, the only enemy type that he has trouble with is Undead.

The Archmage absolutely will have more spell points unless he goes nuts with the Spell Like Abilties.

Also, I'm curious to know how an Archmage ends up with better survivability than a Pale Master.

[Kinryu]

So just a background...

I will be running my PM with a static group. This group will be an all acrane group (4 sorc and 2 wiz). All of the other members will be warforged. I may or may not be the only exception to this, hence the post. As mentioned a couple posts earlier, this character will be TRing from a fighter.

For character storyline, being elf would work best as this is what my character race is currently. I'm certainly not opposed to changing the race. It will just mean that I'll have to make some minor adjustments to the character story.

What I don't want to do is to become a liability to the group. This is why I want to be careful about the race I select (there won't be an option to reroll). I want to be able maintain good survivability while still providing an integral part of the group contribution.

I was thinking to continue with the elven race, but then I thought being with all acranes, I might be better off sticking with warforged. Certainly drow and human I'm considering as well. For me, I think dwarf and halfling are out.

So knowing this, would your recommendations stay the same, or does one race stand out as the one to go with?

[Habreno]

With those circumstances, go WF AM. Mass Repair FTW!

[danlan]

WF archmage drinking yug pot is perfectly fine, epic melees are not much of a threat while epic casters are. You may think otherwise of course, but IMO quicker, larger and cheaper burst heal overshadows 20-30s regeneration per 2 sec+ 25% fortification + slower, smaller (or too expensive) burst heal.