Monk TR HOrc vs. WF?

[fyrst.grok]

I was thinking much the same thing but in the end it came down to, 3 choices. 4 if you wanted to go the human extra feat route.

If I was going to str based monk for dmg then Horc had it in spades (And oh yes he definitely does.) If I was going defensive and dex based then the halfling to was the way to go. If I wanted and all around rounded character with meat and the added resistance, then a dwarf was the answer. (Let me tell ya that acid thing those spider whip hurts. No idea how it lands but it does in that whisperdoom.)

I thought about the WF but it didn't bring anything to the table that the other 3 couldn't top. Pretty much alot of the things a WF has going are covered by the monk class itself. Theirs no overhaul vs gear (Well their are some nice threads in a couple of places ive seen cloth wise) and defense isn't a real problem either. Hell if you have a mage that gives a **** they can turn you into a god with 2 low cost spells. Their just was no real reason to choose a wf other then you wanted one.

The only thing that would completely seal it is if the horcs dmg enhancements could be used as 2 weapon, but ya can't always have everything.

They DO bring the looks

Did try a variant once with human dualwielding longswords.. Could work now they made earth +1 multiplier.

You're right about the dwarf.. My original plan was a dwarf as well.. I just can't stand them. Hence the second best HOrc.

Anyway.. Ended up making a WF again, I just love the leveldrain immunity too much and hotswapping tend to be annoying - I also pulled both the flesshaper docent and symbiont in one run through the series and will be adding +10 save on the trace of madness.. Or curse guard.
Honestly I found HOrc < WF < dwarf.. But the whole karate toddler doesn't work for me..

That said I'll probably make a HOrc/Dorf version too anyway sooner or later

Thanks for the input guys! And may the nerf be with you!

[edgarallanpoe]

I can't comment on the WF monk but I currently have a Horc and Drow monk at cap and I am also currently playing a Dwarven Monk and have him at 8th at the moment.

My Horc hits like a friggin tank and a Str of 40+ in fire stance IV is easily attainable. Heck...I am at 40 *before* I get raged and then Madstone on top takes it to 44 IIRC. Hard to beat those numbers...that would be a 40 in wind stance while raged and madstoned. Now the negative...he is a Shin III and his stuns land less regularly because of his lower Wis...only so many attribute points to go around. Don't get me wrong...they still land, but not nearly as frequently as my Drow monk with a 30 Wis. Remember that Fire stance imparts a -2 penaly to Wis. That can be a big deal if you already have a less than stellar Wis. That being said...a WF in Fire gets an even greater penalty because they *start* at a -2 while the Horc gets his -2 in Int and Char. I know that you are planning a dark path monk but they still need Wis to get the most out of ToD so this is something that should not be overlooked.

The Dwarf is a blast to play so far. His stuns are pretty much automatic with a decent set of wraps and the tactics line. I don't have Earth III or IV yet because he is only 8th level but I'll bet he will break some major bones when he gets them. I am already hitting pretty hard. I currently switch between Fire and Earth stance because Ki regen is a major problem in Earth. To offset this I took stunning blow as well as SF so I can stun without using Ki.

These guys are *very* different and it took some major adjusting to go from the Dex/wis Drow to the Str Horc. It was equally, and in some cases more, difficult to go from the Horc to the Dwarf.

One more thing...the new Cleave feat is the shiz....great for Ki regen.

[fyrst.grok]

I can't comment on the WF monk but I currently have a Horc and Drow monk at cap and I am also currently playing a Dwarven Monk and have him at 8th at the moment.

My Horc hits like a friggin tank and a Str of 40+ in fire stance IV is easily attainable. Heck...I am at 40 *before* I get raged and then Madstone on top takes it to 44 IIRC. Hard to beat those numbers...that would be a 40 in wind stance while raged and madstoned. Now the negative...he is a Shin III and his stuns land less regularly because of his lower Wis...only so many attribute points to go around. Don't get me wrong...they still land, but not nearly as frequently as my Drow monk with a 30 Wis. Remember that Fire stance imparts a -2 penaly to Wis. That can be a big deal if you already have a less than stellar Wis. That being said...a WF in Fire gets an even greater penalty because they *start* at a -2 while the Horc gets his -2 in Int and Char. I know that you are planning a dark path monk but they still need Wis to get the most out of ToD so this is something that should not be overlooked.

The Dwarf is a blast to play so far. His stuns are pretty much automatic with a decent set of wraps and the tactics line. I don't have Earth III or IV yet because he is only 8th level but I'll bet he will break some major bones when he gets them. I am already hitting pretty hard. I currently switch between Fire and Earth stance because Ki regen is a major problem in Earth. To offset this I took stunning blow as well as SF so I can stun without using Ki.

These guys are *very* different and it took some major adjusting to go from the Dex/wis Drow to the Str Horc. It was equally, and in some cases more, difficult to go from the Horc to the Dwarf.

One more thing...the new Cleave feat is the shiz....great for Ki regen.

Well.. As I said above I ended up going wf anyway, mainly because I know what I get and he will actually have one of the highest stun dc's because of the tactic enhancements, 1-2 higher than the HOrc version and only 1 lower than Dwarf.
Edit: Not to mention the nice new docents.

Might change my mind when I hit level 20 if I'm not satisfied with him, but then I'll just TR again and get the next 2 statpoints

But this whole thing made me think and I'm probably going to create another monk, namely a HElf, since they get +1 wisdom enhancement and can take 2 tactics with a fighter dillitant (will in fact be a cheaper +3 than the dwarf/WF).. Or go rogue dilly with dark path for 6d6 sneak attack..