Dark Monk: Hate Tanking?

[Habreno]

Assume a STR-Based HOrc Monk.

At end-game, can a STR-based HOrc Monk actually tank with threat alone over frenzied barbs and such? Assume GM Fire or Earth (+4 STR or +4 CON and X3 multiplier on crits), hasted, raged (spell, not HOrc enhancements for under x% of HP), and a bonus 25% threat generated from the HOrc threat generation line, in addition to standard endgame monk gear.


Yes, this may be a narrow "niche", but would it be possible to hate tank with a Monk at end-game? And if not, is it because there's not enough damage output or what?

[whomhead]

I think it would be possible, but you'd have a hard time keeping aggro if you're grouping with well-geared characters and/or ones that don't care to reduce their own threat gen. If you really want to hate-tank on a dark monk, I'd suggest a 12 monk, 6 paladin, 2 something (probably fighter) split. The extra hate gen from Divine Righteousness will keep the attention on you easily. With that split you'd still get tier 3 stances as well.

[FrozenNova]

With the horc brute line, and some incite gear, easily.
With full incite DT, 25% brute + 10% eldritch + 15% Tempest + 20% Sovereign is 170% threat.
By the time people are using eSoS, you could have the claw set for 200% threat. I don't see you losing that.

[Taimasan]

A Dark Monk can hate tank with no issues, I was doing it before I got the brute fighting line and before half-orc's even existed. Hey I even hate-tanked with my pure dex monk back in the day, the good thing about ddo is if you envision it and if it is compatible. It just might work.

[Quikster]

Of course its possible. Just because you might have a lil less dps or hate, doesnt mean you cant tank.

Now if the question was, "Can a dark monk with x gear/enhancements tank and hold agro with no headstart against the best played/geared melees on the server?" then the answer might need more number crunching/info/discussion.

Also remember just because you have a tank doesnt mean you need to tank all the time. If someone else is better suited for whatever reason, let them do it, turn off your hate, and turn on your dps

[Kinerd]

Dark monks are not ideally suited for tanking, as their DPS prestige is sneak attack based. Your best bet is against fortified opponents, as monks get almost no DPS from crits and if you're tanking your SA is irrelevant. I would also go with Wind stance over Earth stance and way over Fire stance. With enough threat gear, it's conceivable. I'd also be a little worried about HP, especially on a half-orc.

[Tirisha]

short answer: Yes you can tank.

Example

I tank on my Wis build elf dark monk (with CE on) quite successfully. I have no threat gear to speak of yet *been lazy about building my DT suit* I usually give myself 2 or 3 TODs as a head start *depending on the dps* and rarely have any problems.

Question:
Is that build gonna be a good tank?

how do you plan on being a good tank? healing amp+hp?

[Taimasan]

Dark monks are not ideally suited for tanking, as their DPS prestige is sneak attack based. Your best bet is against fortified opponents, as monks get almost no DPS from crits and if you're tanking your SA is irrelevant. I would also go with Wind stance over Earth stance and way over Fire stance. With enough threat gear, it's conceivable. I'd also be a little worried about HP, especially on a half-orc.

First I would like to ask are you speaking from personal experience? And way exactly do you thin that monks are not suited for tanking? I crit for 150+. Almost always. And why would you take Wind over Fire or Earth?? And what is the threshold of your HP that you are concerned about?? Please expand on this assumption and what I consider to be mis-information.

[nolaureltree000]

yes, monks can tank any boss in the game. look at the Metaru build.

my WF monk is based on the Metaru build (mainly went after way more HA). it takes a bit of gearing, but i have no problems tanking. the only thing i dont feel comfortable doing yet is tanking horoth as im still missing some exceptional CON gearing to get my HP up (im only at 571 unbuffed).

i dont really have any problems holding aggro. i run WF Brute Fighting I and a triple Incite Dragontouched Docent. the only time i run into issues is the occasional multiple TR ranger using many shot and the eSoS barb that has a claw set on. in the case of the barb they generally will only pull aggro when i get chained anyways. as long as they take off a piece of their claw set (which they should anyways if they arent the tank) then its not an issue.

[Samadhi]

Pretty easily....

I have a 12 monk / 8 ftr that was built specifically for it; with enough healing amp and HP he really only needs healed by a cleric aura. Are you going to hold aggro over some jag-off pali spamming hate bonus's? Of course not, but neither is the barbarian.

[Culver.Civello]

Fire/Earth is the way to go with a Tanking Monk. Period. Where you think Wind makes the better choice, I don't know where you would get that from, besides maybe some bonus AC.

Look For the Metaru or Emerald Phoenix Monk Builds. Those both can Tank decently. Emerald Phoenix is a little more self sufficient as to where the Metaru would probably be your straight forward tanking Monk.

[Soleran]

Fire/Earth is the way to go with a Tanking Monk. Period. Where you think Wind makes the better choice, I don't know where you would get that from, besides maybe some bonus AC.

Look For the Metaru or Emerald Phoenix Monk Builds. Those both can Tank decently. Emerald Phoenix is a little more self sufficient as to where the Metaru would probably be your straight forward tanking Monk.

Doublestrike is the reason why throw on incite gear and that adds alot more threat then either fire or earth can hope to.

[Taimasan]

Doublestrike is the reason why throw on incite gear and that adds alot more threat then either fire or earth can hope to.

All I have to say is.


Wow.

[nolaureltree000]

Doublestrike is the reason why throw on incite gear and that adds alot more threat then either fire or earth can hope to.

iirc we dont really know the math of how hate generation works so its hard to say for certain.

what is the max chance for double strike that a monk can achieve, 10% right? assuming its 10%, we can say that we will get a double strike once every 10 main hand hits. our offhand strikes will proc 80% of the time from GTWF. that means that one double strike hit must provide more dps than what is lost from fire/earth stance in 17 hits (9 main hand double strike fails + 8 offhand hits).

ive never been a numbers guy, so i might be a bit off in my stated numbers somehow, but it seems doubtful that one strike can out dps the extra dps gained in 17 hits through fire/earth stance.

[Culver.Civello]

All I have to say is.


Wow.

^This.

[Blank_Zero]

I think it would be possible, but you'd have a hard time keeping aggro if you're grouping with well-geared characters and/or ones that don't care to reduce their own threat gen. If you really want to hate-tank on a dark monk, I'd suggest a 12 monk, 6 paladin, 2 something (probably fighter) split. The extra hate gen from Divine Righteousness will keep the attention on you easily. With that split you'd still get tier 3 stances as well.

Do this, but go WF. Got a friend who tanks Horoth no issues with it. And can be healed by a caster with Recon in a pinch.

[Thoradin]

Havent been having any problems with mine thus far


http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=329642

[laeris]

Do this, but go WF. Got a friend who tanks Horoth no issues with it. And can be healed by a caster with Recon in a pinch.

Better be refering to me, I'm a big mate

[Ecoski]

Yes, dark monks can tank, you get a 500 point punch that you can keep on throwing to keep the hate on you. IMO, even though earth makes me think "tank stance", by 20 fire would probably be better, for increased ki generation so you can keep popping off ToD, with earth strikes being fired in the cooldown time.

[FuzzyDuck81]

I'm working on a warforged 12(dark)monk/6pally/2fighter, planning for him to be a hate tank - he seems pretty capable at the moment (currently level 15, 12monk/3pally) & i keep him in earth stance for the DR, CON & extra crit multiplier. Once i'm higher, i'll be using brute fighting & divine righteousness for aggro generation.

One of the things i'm still wondering about is which PrE to go for, though stalwart defender (prereq tower shielf prof, i'll have that from the righter level) is likely since i can presumably enter the stance even without the shield equipped? I'll be slow moving for repositioning, but i think abundant step can help with that somewhat.