empower healing or maximize?

[Hobgoblin]

Alot of the paladin builds i read say to take maximize for self healing.

why is this?

wouldnt emp healing be a better choice now that they changed the spell costs of the cure spells?

hob

[knightgf]

Unfortunately, even with cure serious wounds, your still losing mana because cure serious wounds is 12 SP, and empower heal spell is 50% more for 10 SP. Unless you can somehow bring your empower heal down to 6 SP(Not sure if its possible on a paladin, 8 certainly is but idk about 6), the only difference between maximize and empower heal is how much SP you waste. If you don't mind blowing through SP to heal, take maximize. If you mind a bit about blowing through SP, but dont mind as much, then take empower.

Otherwise, I would just simply take a combat related feat, and pray the healer will patch you up.

[redspecter23]

The simple answer is that maximize heals more than empower healing and in the case of paladins, they would rather heal for a higher amount than heal efficiently. If they really wanted efficient healing they would just turn off all metamagics and do it slowly. In the cases where paladins do need a quick spot heal, they need it to be for as much as possible.

[negativeprogression]

bigger single heals are more useful than geting more smaller heals

theres also plenty of items you can get to replenish/regen your sp if you dont want to use mana pots to refill

[dynahawk]

The simple answer is that maximize heals more than empower healing and in the case of paladins, they would rather heal for a higher amount than heal efficiently. If they really wanted efficient healing they would just turn off all metamagics and do it slowly. In the cases where paladins do need a quick spot heal, they need it to be for as much as possible.

This ^^^

If you NEED it now, then you need as much as possible.

If you can wait, then use no Metamagics at all.

[unbongwah]

wouldnt emp healing be a better choice now that they changed the spell costs of the cure spells?

Emp Heal is more SP-efficient, but Maximize provides more healing per cast. With a paladin, you want to self-heal yourself as quickly as possible to get back into the fight ASAP; less time spent casting multiple CSWs means more time fighting. Also a lot of the paladin builds which take Max+Quicken plan to equip SP-regen-on-hit gear (Raiyum Torc, Con Opp GS item) so they're continuously regaining SPs; ideally, you regain SPs fast enough that you don't have to worry about being SP-efficient.

[Hellllboy]

I know a lot of splash Pal/Monks that rely on Path of Light attacks for self healing-I think Meta's effect this-Max x 2 and Empower Healing x 1.5. No Mana usage if I recall. I could never fit a Meta on a pure Pally.

[Tobril]

Unfortunately, even with cure serious wounds, your still losing mana because cure serious wounds is 12 SP, and empower heal spell is 50% more for 10 SP. Unless you can somehow bring your empower heal down to 6 SP(Not sure if its possible on a paladin, 8 certainly is but idk about 6), the only difference between maximize and empower heal is how much SP you waste. If you don't mind blowing through SP to heal, take maximize. If you mind a bit about blowing through SP, but dont mind as much, then take empower.

Otherwise, I would just simply take a combat related feat, and pray the healer will patch you up.

With power drain ticking, torc/CCopp proccing, etc it doesn’t really matter how much CSW costs…but it sure as hell matters how hard it hits.

When I was running maximize I got ~350 or so, and had room for growth.

[Therigar]

The effect of Maximize is to double a spell's effect. This is a 100% increase.

The effect of Empower Healing is to increase healing spells by 50%.

100% > 50%.

The question is whether that is more effective use of spell points. But that should not be asked without also asking whether the healing is sufficient to allow a second use.

Cure Serious Wounds is 22 points with Empower Healing vs 37 points with Maximize. Without getting into the impact of enhancements or other effects to change the spell point cost or to improve the effectiveness the average cure from CSW is ~31 points.

So, for 22 spell points you bump that to ~47 vs ~63 for 37 points.

Obviously the 47/22 gives a better cure/points result than 63/37. So now the question is whether 47 is enough cure so that you'll be around to cast a second time.

IMO this will be very dependent on play style and on what other boosts you have to impact spell effects. But, both POVs seem to have merit with the real deciding factor being play style and preference.

[FuzzyDuck81]

On my ranger before TRing, i had maximise, plus the crystal cove dagger so if i ever needed emergency healing i could dash back, switch & activate that then get a fully maximised cure or 2 at no extra SP cost.. pretty handy.

[Hobgoblin]

mm lots of good stuff here.

think i will keep my emp healing untill i get my torc/conc item made

thanks
hob

[Therigar]

An additional point made by others already in this thread. How many feats do you have available that you can afford metamagics?

This is also very much build and play style dependent.

[knightgf]

This is also very much build and play style dependent.

True, very true. I hate making paladins especially since the last one I made was deleted at level 9, but I think when it comes to paladin preferences, it's like this:

• If you DPS, be prepared to sacrifice defensive capabilities.
• If you self-heal, be prepared to sacrifice offensive capabilities.
• If you defend, be prepared to sacrifice offensive capabilities.

In detail, if you go the DPS route(Whether it be two-weapon or two-handed), you probably wont have much if any freedom at all as to your feat and enhancement choices. You may or may not have room to take additional feats that you wish to have. If you go with self-healing, you'll probably end up sacrificing a bit of your DPS, with healing amplification needs, giving up 1-2 feats for offensive capabilities, switching out gear briefly for whatever, exc. If you go with defense, you'll probably give up offensive capabilities for the ability to have improved shield blocking, better intimidate, 'maybe' A/C, exc.

If you are interested in self-healing on your paladin, truth be told, it probably wont be effecient, since only clerics gain the ability to have 'improved empower' abilities that decrease the SP it costs. But if you really are interested, take at least maximize. You can take quicken for the ability to do it without damage interfering, but keep in mind knockdown and hold effects will still prevent you from completing the spell animation. In addition, if you party frequently, you'll probably have some sort of divine in your party capable of a 'bit' of healing, and your Lay on Hands abilities are great if you run really short on HP and wish to have insurance, so I probably would focus on DPS unless you wish to have a bit of solo ability(In which case I would recommend a 18 pal/2 rog build for evasion among other things). But in the end, your playstyle is up to you.

[Bodic]

healing amp+ emp heal is better than max+ amp as you will not overheal all the time and LoH is your quick heal.

[RTN]

Given how feat starved paladins are, I wouldn't take either. If I was going to take one, I'd take Empower Healing because for burst healing, I would rather use LoH over a maximized CSW. However, overall, I'd rather use my SP for things besides healing.