Help with a PM/Monk 12/8 build

[SensaiRyu]

Have seen a couple of threads on this. Augmenting a monk with PM vampire form. Seems interesting. I guess it's not a great build from what I've read but it'd be a nice change to what I've been playing.

I've had dark and light monks. Kensai and SD fighters - melee class only. I'm guessing that HElf cleric dillys are out if I'm planning on using vampire form. I'm going rogue dillys. This will be my first multiclass.

As a melee I'm hoping to fight in stance in vampire form. I take an extra TWF feat and drop diehard.
As a wizard I want to be useful for repairs, firewalls, and whatever else a lvl 12 wiz can do. Since I've never been a WF I don't know how important repair is. If it's as useful as heal to a fleshie, then I figure I should be able to be able to do it. But I doubt I'd be very good at repairing a 600 hp WF. Should I skip trying to repair?

I did a quick planner starting from this thread. Made a few changes and would really appreciate feedback on the usefulness of the wizard stuff.

Initial Stats are 14/15/16/10/14/8 and I'm adding 4 lvl ups into wisdom and 1 into dex.

Level Progression 1-2 monk, 3-14 wiz, 15-20 monk
I guess I could mix it up more... don't know if more swapping classes as I lvl is useful.

Base ending hitpoints are just under 300 with almost 800 spellpoints. Not too squishy with good hp equips. Don't know about the spellpoints. Going vampire form takes 100 of them.

Melee - I take up to I*** and improved crit.
DR beaters - metalline/good wraps or a pair of metalline/good shortswords.

One thing that bothers me is missing ToD by 1 monk lvl.

Feats
Level 1 (Monk)
(Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Rogue
(Monk Bonus) Stunning Fist - Focus on wisdom and this will proc nicely in high lvl quests
(Selected) Toughness

Level 2 (Monk)
(Monk Bonus) Dodge - Ninja prereq

Level 3 (Wizard)
(Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell
(Selected) Spell Focus: Necromancy

Level 6 (Wizard)
(Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy

Level 7 (Wizard)
(Wizard Bonus) Mental Toughness

Level 9 (Wizard)
(Selected) Two Weapon Fighting

Level 12 (Wizard)
(Wizard Bonus) Heighten Spell - per Cryohazard's selection
(Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting

Level 15 (Monk)
(Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
(Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness

Level 18 (Monk)
(Selected) Maximize Spell - will this be useful?
(Monk Bonus) Toughness - dump feat

Monk Enhancements
Way of the Patient Tortoise II
All-Consuming Flame
Monk Ninja Spy I
Adept of Wind
Adept of Rock
Adept of Flame
Adept of Rain
Fists of Iron
Unbalancing Strike
Monk Improved Recovery I

Race Enhancements
Improved Rogue Dilettante II
Half-Elf Improved Trap Sense II
Human Improved Recovery I
Human Versatility III
Racial Toughness II

Pale Master Forms
Shroud of the Vampire
Shroud of the Wraith
Shroud of the Zombie - had 1 point to dump

WF support
Repair Manipulation I

Misc Caster Enhancements - Are these worth taking or should I put into ability enhancements?
Acid Manipulation I
Corrosive Spellcasting I
Deadly Acid I

Frost Manipulation I
Glacial Spellcasting I
Deadly Ice I

Flame Manipulation I
Combustive Spellcasting I
Deadly Flame I

Misc Caster Enh
Force Manipulation I - another dump
Wizard Energy of the Scholar III
Wizard Intelligence II
Wizard Wand and Scroll Mastery II

Am I messing up the wizard enhancements or missing out on a feat that would be help?

[Phidius]

I leveled up an 11/9 WF Wiz/Monk... You're better off with the wraith form than ToD IMHO. Too often the mob would move just as I'd trigger the ToD.

Your biggest concern will be your to-hit...I'd recommend all level ups into str, and dump wisdom (put those build points into str). Take Sap instead of Stunning Fist if you want some control.

Vampire form is rather deadly with the amount of mobs that spew light damage.

If it helps any, I was glad to TR Gemstone at the end of that life...

[SensaiRyu]

So a base ability setup of 16/15/16/14/8/8 and 5 lvl ups into str, +1 str enh to end up with 24/17/18/14/10/10 would be better.

Swap out SF with SB or Sap. I looked at Sap... different play style than I'm used to running a light monk with gobs of stuns.

But, I can see where a no-save would be useful control.

[SensaiRyu]

Monk 8, PM 12

Adept of Wind: +2 dex, -2 con +10% att speed
Zombie Form: +2 str, +2 con, -20% att speed
Melee: 1d16 unarmed att (at monk lvl 6 with garments), +4str -10% att speed (+5% att speed hasted)
Str 40 = 16base, +2tome +5lvls +1ehn +6item, +2ship, +2rage +4zombie +2yugo
Con 30 = 16base +2tome, +2ship, +2rage, +2yugo +6item

Adept of Flame: +2 str, -2 wis
Vampire Form: +2 str, +2 cha
Melee: 1d12 unarmed att (garments), +4 str
Str 40
Con 30

Adept of Rock: +2 con, -2 dex
Vampire Form: +2 str
Melee: 1d12 unarmed att (bracers), +2 str, +2 con
Zombie Form:
Melee: 1d16 unarmed att (bracers), +4 str, +4 con, -20% att speed (-5% if hasted)
Str 38
Con 34 = 16base +2tome, +2form, +2stance, +2ship, +2rage, +2yugo +6item

Wraith Form pretty much only gives only movement speed and 25% incorp right?

It seems like this wouldn't be that bad of a melee from a caster's pov... Wouldn't have any real problem hitting. Use Vers III for +4 burst to hit.

Monk with DDoor, firewalls, inflict wounds, etc.

How fast are the wiz touch animations like chill touch? Do they work on a quickbar next to fire/air/earth strikes. Would I need to have quicken to not break up my unarmed attack chain?

[Phidius]

It's been a while, but I'm pretty sure any casting will interupt your attack chain, and result in lower DPS.

Wraith form would be better not because it has bonuses, but because it sucks less. Slower melee and quadruple damage from light both suck hard.

While wraith doesn't stack with ninja spy fade, at least it doesn't need to be refeshed.

[Failedlegend]

I question a few of your choices.

- Going 8 monk that's only netting you 1d10 damage max assuming you'll use your fists)

- The only thing Wiz 12 gets you is PM2....without at least 18 levels in wizard your not going to make ANY Save or Spell Resistance checks making alot of your spells pointless aside from buffs and the greatness that is Melf's

- If your taking PM2 (as opposed to Pure Monk or PM1) for the incorporeal miss chance just go Dark Monk as it gets a similar abiilty if its the healing you could go light monk or just take PM1

- There ALOT more light damage in the game than you think and has made Vamp form nigh useless.

- The +20 Balance from Wraith is wicked though :P



Now if you were to go Monk12/Wiz7/Fighter1 you'd get

- 2d10 Fists (the same as a pure monk)

- Self-Healing (same as your build)

- ToD & Incorperal (Huge DPS boost and you don't lose the incorp wraith gets)

- Melf's Acid Arrow..the glory being no Save or Spell resist to worry about just a huge amount of DOT Acid damage (Note: Use this while charging an enemy than starting punching his face in)

- Improved Evasion

- Abundant Step & Can walk on water (Fun, Convenient & once you learn how to control them enough can be used in combat to great advantage)

- Tier 3 Stances namely Earth which = +1 Crit Multiplier as well as increased constitution and other defensive measures not to mention the increased fist die step.

- Oh and THIS build can actually take GTWF

- The only real losses from Wiz lvl 12 down to 7 are 5th and 6th spells which aside from Greater Heroism or Teleport (which you can easily just carry scrolls for) anything else that WOULD be useful you level 12 wiz couldn't make hit anything anyway.

Here's a sample build (the one I use) you can easily swap to H-Elf or any fleshy really (Warforged doesn't bring much to the Palemaster world) Dwarf was mostly a personal choice since I didn't have a Dwarf in my roster yet and the Shaved head + Pony Tail Beard thing look wicked on a monk.

Lawful Neutral Dwarf Monk12/Wizard7/Fighter1 "Zombie/Ninja Spy"

Stats

Str 16 (Lvl ups here)
Dex 15
Con 16
Int 12
Wis 12
Cha 6

Level Order

Monk 1
Wizard 2-8
Monk 9-18
Fighter 19
Monk 20

Feats (In Order)


Regular

1 SF: Concentration
3 SF: UMD
6 Power Attack
9 Stunning Blow
12 ITWF
15 IC: Bludgeon
18 Mental Toughness


Wiz

2 Extend
6 SF:Necro


Monk

1 TWF
9  Toughness
13 Dodge

Fighter

19 GTWF

Skills

All Levels: Concentration, UMD
Monk Levels: Add Balance
Any Leftover points in Spot




Spells

1 Jump, Night Shield, Exp Retreat, Feather Fall, Detect Doors
2 Lesser Death Aura, False Life, Resist Energy, Blur sometimes Melf's (no save ftw)
3 Haste, Displacement, Rage
4 Death Aura, Neg Burst

Your other option is to go Wiz18/Rogue2 and take Insightful Reflexes, Shield Prof and Mastery combine that with PM3 & UMD and you a hard to kill insta killing (and regular killing..I prefer Cold/Acid) machine but you won't be meleeing anything :P

[SensaiRyu]

- Going 8 monk that's only netting you 1d10 damage max assuming you'll use your fists)

A quick response while I'm looking at your info.

Jidz tet'ka bracers give +1 die dmg to unarmed attack in Earth stance
Garments of Equilibrium give +1 die dmg to unarmed attacks in all stances.
They don't stack - I have both on my main toon.
Zombie form gives +2 die dmg.

Now IF zombie form stacks with the garments or bracers I'd get 1d14 in zombie form and 1d16 with bracers/garments. Anyone know if these stack or not?

That's not too shabby unarmed dmg for a lvl 8 monk +3 die dmg.

It's been a while, but I'm pretty sure any casting will interupt your attack chain, and result in lower DPS.

I rolled a lvl 4 yesterday and added cold touch to my quickbar. It fires fast enuf that I don't notice the lag. But then I didn't notice except a few times if it fired or not in melee. I'm thinking that higher lvl spells will be slower to cast.

Thanks all for the info so far. I digesting it and really appreciate it.

[Failedlegend]

A quick response while I'm looking at your info.

Jidz tet'ka bracers give +1 die dmg to unarmed attack in Earth stance
Garments of Equilibrium give +1 die dmg to unarmed attacks in all stances.
They don't stack - I have both on my main toon.
Zombie form gives +2 die dmg.

Now IF zombie form stacks with the garments or bracers I'd get 1d14 in zombie form and 1d16 with bracers/garments. Anyone know if these stack or not?

That's not too shabby unarmed dmg for a lvl 8 monk +3 die dmg.

Its not +2 die dmg its +2 die steps so it doesn't work that way...you'll be wearing the bracers because you'll want either DT, Mabar Robe or Shroud of the Abbott in your armor slot but that's besides the point if your plan is to use zombie form why bother going for PM2? You get zombie from PM1


Fist Prog

1d2 - Non-Monk Halfling
1d3 - Non-Monk
1d6 - Monk 1
1d8 - Monk 4
1d10 - Monk 8 (Your Build - Assuming Wraith otherwise PM2 is pointless)
2d6 - Monk 12
2d8 - Monk 16 (Your Build - Assuming zombie form)
2d10 - Monk 20 (My Build)
2d12 - Monk 20 with Bracers/ 2nd Life Monk
2d14 - 2nd Life Monk w/ Bracers
2d16 - etc.
2d18
2d20

Thus regardless of equipment the 12monk/7wiz/1fighter will be either be dealing twice the base fist damage as well as all the stuff I listed or be one die step ahead of your build (in both cases it will also have a x3 Crit modifier while yours will only have x2) if it's in zombie form but that renders getting PM2 pointless.

[SensaiRyu]

My bad on the stacking (all I see on my monk is 2d14) and I didn't really pay attention while I was leveling him. Thanks for the nice list!

OK... so in Zombie form with garments I'd have 2d10 (+3 die steps). Again... assuming zombie and garments (or bracers) stack.

As for PM II vs PM I... I was thinking of using the vampire form most of the time. But from what this thread and 1 or 2 other thread's say, there's a lot of light dmg being thrown out making vampire form a bad choice.

Wraith form for what? movement speed? LL

And you're right - if I'm going to stick with zombie form then I'd cap with PM I. Are you seeing 3 die steps in zombie form with garments or bracers?

Do they even stack?

Also, Unless i get an alacrity for my DT armor, I'd probably stay in air stance if I was in zombie form.

I could stick to the PM II build and use wraith form with casters and vamp with melees. But it doesn't seem like it's something I'll want to swap between a lot cuz of sp cost.

It seems like a vampire/monk just isn't a useful build. I miss out on ToD and vampire is very weak to light dmg. So, unless I get another pale lavender stone I'd be worthless.

[Failedlegend]

My bad on the stacking (all I see on my monk is 2d14) and I didn't really pay attention while I was leveling him. Thanks for the nice list!

OK... so in Zombie form with garments I'd have 2d10 (+3 die steps). Again... assuming zombie and garments (or bracers) stack.

As for PM II vs PM I... I was thinking of using the vampire form most of the time. But from what this thread and 1 or 2 other thread's say, there's a lot of light dmg being thrown out making vampire form a bad choice.

Wraith form for what? movement speed? LL

And you're right - if I'm going to stick with zombie form then I'd cap with PM I. Are you seeing 3 die steps in zombie form with garments or bracers?

Do they even stack?

Also, Unless i get an alacrity for my DT armor, I'd probably stay in air stance if I was in zombie form.

I could stick to the PM II build and use wraith form with casters and vamp with melees. But it doesn't seem like it's something I'll want to swap between a lot cuz of sp cost.

It seems like a vampire/monk just isn't a useful build. I miss out on ToD and vampire is very weak to light dmg. So, unless I get another pale lavender stone I'd be worthless.

Zombie+ Bracers Stack? Yes (personally checked on my zombie monk)

Wraith? mostly situationally with Feather Fall and +20 Balance but much more useful to a full wizard

Swapping between forms for melees and caster? doesn't really work that way the forms are on a shared cooldown of a minute or two.

Light damage? x2 manageable (although it will still hurt)...x4 suicide

Slowed Attack Speed? Air Stance does NOT stack with haste..just be sure to keep haste up...which you'll easily get into the habit of and you wont even notice.

Note: Just so you the only reason i take 7 levels of wiz as opposed to 6 is because lvl 7 gives you access to Death Aura