Zonk build... how much is viable?

[Nephilia]

I was wondering about TRing my monk 20 into a 12 monk (dark path) / 8 wizzy (zombie form to have a zonk-toon!
Is this a viable pg usefull in end game and whatever? Or just a gimp-pony who will be parked every time in my horse stable?
Ty for suggestion

[DevHead]

I haven't heard very good things. Apparently it attacks too slowly to be useful and the lost 8 monk levels just hurts too much. There are threads about it around, I believe.

[Nephilia]

I checked forum's thread a lot but found nothing

[jandhaer]

I had a guildie that made that build for his 2nd life on his wiz , well he actually ended up 11 wiz 9 monk (not sure his reasonings on that) he had alot of fun doing it but he also had all the gear to boot so Im sure that helped alot I also know he TRed pretty quick again at cap. Fun? sureE end game viable?? Probs not so much.

[edgarallanpoe]

IIRC most people looking to do this took enough Wiz levels to get them to the next form of undead because of the slow attack speed of Zombie. Not sure which form is next though

[FuzzyDuck81]

IIRC most people looking to do this took enough Wiz levels to get them to the next form of undead because of the slow attack speed of Zombie. Not sure which form is next though

At wizard level 12, you can get vampire for the life draining attacks or wraith for the incorporeal form

[jandhaer]

Zombie does more damage if your going for the melee/skirmisher handwraps fighting style.

[Nephilia]

Zombie does more damage if your going for the melee/skirmisher handwraps fighting style.

And this is what I was thinking about!
Uncertain if I would go shintao or ninja spy as PRE...

[jandhaer]

as you will most likely be on the low side of HP the ninja fade is an additional incorpreal chance they have at missing you so with blur/displacement/ninja fade each one has a chance at making them miss you. Also the sneak attack damage will help up the melee dps. The benefits of light monk will largely be wasted on a build like this because of being in undead form those lil healing tricks wont be helping you at all.

[Ironforge_Clan]

At wizard level 12, you can get vampire for the life draining attacks or wraith for the incorporeal form

This. Before Vampire form came out Wraith was what one would see most often since with blur, displacement, and being incorporeal was a huge boost when fighting unarmed. I would stay away from using Zombie form just because the attack speed is reduce and Vampire form can be trouble if you are fighting any monster that uses sunburst or light based attacks.

[t0r012]

Zombie does more damage if your going for the melee/skirmisher handwraps fighting style.

Well it give extra die step(s) to damage but my understanding is that the slightly higher damage number is more than offset by the slower attack speed which is where monk damage really comes from.

[jandhaer]

attack speed not as much an issue here as it would be on a norm monk since he will eventually be swinging in the middle of a death aura/firewall/acid rain etc. the swinging is just iceing on the cake really when it comes to his DPS.

[PestWulf]

And this is what I was thinking about!
Uncertain if I would go shintao or ninja spy as PRE...

There is a serious problem being undead and melee from my experiences. I started a halfing zombie monk and I found the attack speed to be ok. The thing about it is, they shorten the normal animation so it looks and "feels" really slow as the damage numbers don't seem to match up with the attack animations very well.

I had some problems with the initial speed because my BAB was low which meant slower attack speed and because of the form. It was still workable for me, however when I added haste and a few more monk levels to help the BAB attack speed portion, it was just fine..still had that wonky animation. I was expecting a new animation not the normal monk one with lots of frames missing. But whatever.

There are a couple things to note, first one was a pleasant surprise in that the compendium, notes and wiki didn't mention that vorpals in zombie form do INT damage to the enemy.

The second thing to note is that you are screwed. As a melee, you need to be in the middle of things to fight, which means you are going to get nailed with Flamestrikes early on and sunbursts later. Searing light appears to be on every clerical caster mobs rotation now. Basically there is a ton of light damage in the game and all of it will be hitting you for ridiculous amounts of damage that you can't mitigate. Red Fens searing light was hitting me from between 80 and 100 damage I blieve at level 8. The end boss guy in fathom the depths was flamestriking me for ...almost 200 I think..not sure as it insta killed me so pardon for the vagueness.

If you plan on playing a caster in an undead form, you will have to be careful but you can manage. If you plan on being a melee in an undead form, then expect to die alot, run away from combat and use terrain to block casters until your party can neturalize them for you and make it safe for you to play again.

As for doing this in Vampire form?? with quadruple light damage?? I don't think you can do that unless you are very selective about what quests you do. You definitely will have to be fighting outside of your undead forms a lot of the time or have one killer group helping you.

Just my experiences, hope it helps.

[Chette]

attack speed not as much an issue here as it would be on a norm monk since he will eventually be swinging in the middle of a death aura/firewall/acid rain etc. the swinging is just iceing on the cake really when it comes to his DPS.

But don't you still want that icing to be the best tasting icing it could be?
Vampire or wraith would be a much better choice for a build like this.

[jandhaer]

vampire will get you killed. and wraith just meh. Zombie adds 2 die steps of damage AND +2 STR and +2 CON and 5 dr only costs 25 SP to enter form also vs 100 SP for wraith or vampire , clearly the winner

[Chette]

vampire will get you killed. and wraith just meh. Zombie adds 2 die steps of damage AND +2 STR and +2 CON and 5 dr only costs 25 SP to enter form also vs 100 SP for wraith or vampire , clearly the winner

Zombie will take you from 2d6 to 2d10 on damage, for a grand total of 4 extra damage per swing but will reduce your attack speed by 20%. So in order for that to be better DPS you would need to have a damage per swing of 16 or less...any decently geared monk should be hitting for like 3 times that much with wraps and bursting ring effects. The DPS loss just gets worse and worse the more damage you do per swing. The DR is slashing only and is easily offset by minimum level 1 gear or a bard.

Vampire heals you as you attack (which hey, you'll be doing pretty fast) and also gives the +2 STR, which is easily comparable to the STR and CON from zombie. Wraith gives the incorporeality which stacks with shadow fade.

Both are clearly much better than the low DPS zombie form.

[jandhaer]

this can be an entertaining build while leveling but over all considered innaffective at end game and hope you can get into guild Tod runs to get those rings cause.... right or wrong gonna have probs gettin in as a melee role or a caster.

[Nephilia]

And the lost of the second tier of ninja spy wouldn't hurt by u, chette?

[mournbladereigns]

I had a guildie that made that build for his 2nd life on his wiz , well he actually ended up 11 wiz 9 monk (not sure his reasonings on that) he had alot of fun doing it but he also had all the gear to boot so Im sure that helped alot I also know he TRed pretty quick again at cap. Fun? sureE end game viable?? Probs not so much.

I rolled a WF 11wiz/9monk build (Before they updated PM). 9 dark monk to get ToD, I used PM abilities for some extra HP's and the negative damage attack. Basically its a WF battlecaster with shadowfade/ninja. Spam earth strikes, necro punches Tier 1 necro grasp, and AoEs DoTs. I found zombie form to be way to slow on it, and quickened reconstruct is superior to low level PM healing. its a fun flavory build. Also, the dark monk neg curse can work with your necro strikes and abilities. Kind of a fun flavor build. Its very survivable when you roll Displacement + shadow fade + stoneskin + self healing + evasion. Like most melee caster builds, its all about having DP clickies/scrolls. If anything its more viable since U9. Fun way to rack up a Wiz past life (or monk with some LRing.) Good enough for grinding out some shroud ingredients. EPic grinding, not best build.

[Chette]

And the lost of the second tier of ninja spy wouldn't hurt by u, chette?

Ninja spy 2 is certainly nice, but if what you're going for is more monk DPS, the zombie form with the 20% attack speed loss is near impossible to make up for.

It will be a different build for sure, but with 12 wizard levels you'll also have a significantly more powerful spell point pool and spell options, which will be imporant

I'm not against the zonk idea, I think it would be fun, I was more just against the points that jandhaer was making that it would be better DPS