Add S&B Glancing Blows to Warhammer

[cforce]

Add S&B glancing blows to warhammer alongside bastard sword and dwarven axe.

- Bludgeoning builds are only ever selected as flavor: Warhammers need love.
- All of the coding is already done for this tech: this should be low hanging "toggle a bit" fruit.
- Warhammer would still remain inferior to its exotic counterparts based on lower base damage.

This is low-risk, easy to implement change that would add a little more diversity to the game.

[FranOhmsford]

/signed

[R0cksteady]

/signed

Although I'd prefer a lot more to be added to warhammers than that.

[cforce]

Although I'd prefer a lot more to be added to warhammers than that.

All warhammers will now also come with a free puppy?

Bludgeoning is certainly a little underpowered across the board, and I think you're right that there's more room for improvement. Another interesting thought I had was to give a variety of bludgeoning weapons a inherent Stunning bonus. For example, giving all Greatclubs an inherent, stacking +2 Stunning DC bonus might actually incent people to occasionally wield a greatclub, which would be great.

But, other ideas I've come up with are higher risk -- either more coding, or a debate around whether it would be balanced. The OP seemed like a no-brainer, though.

[dkyle]

Bludgeon is not inherently a bad damage type. Make a Bludgeoning Khopesh and you'd have a very solid weapon, and likely an optimal one for most Kensai's.

Bludgeon is the most important weapon-type-based DR at end-game.

The reason why Bludgeon is less popular now is because it has no single-handers with good crit profile (18-20/x2, 20/x4, or 19-20/x3). And the Maul has inferior base damage compared to Greatsword and Greataxe.

Basically, there's little justification for giving Warhammers glances and not Battleaxes and Longswords. And once you do that, the feat only gives +1 damage. Which is a terrible waste of a feat. BSwords would be just as useless as they were before they got glances, compared to Longswords.

So, /not signed. I'd rather see something more interesting, like an inherent, stacking, +2 Stunning DC. That is, assuming they fix Stunning Blow to be useful to TWF by restoring the off-hand proc.

[cforce]

Basically, there's little justification for giving Warhammers glances and not Battleaxes and Longswords. And once you do that, the feat only gives +1 damage. Which is a terrible waste of a feat. BSwords would be just as useless as they were before they got glances, compared to Longswords.

Um -- I think you just said "there's no justification to giving Warhammers and not BAxes/Longswords", and then immediately followed it by explaining the justification for not including BAxes and Longswords. Which was exactly why I didn't propose that. So...huh?

/scratches head.

[Missing_Minds]

Bludgeon is not inherently a bad damage type. Make a Bludgeoning Khopesh and you'd have a very solid weapon, and likely an optimal one for most Kensai's.

You want a blunt, cheep axe made of two different metals because not enough materials were around?

/not signed, to the op suggestion

Note also that BS and DAs require proficiency (exotic) War hammers are a martial.

[cforce]

Note also that BS and DAs require proficiency (exotic) War hammers are a martial.

Yep. Given that GS DAxe/BSword damage is +3.5 higher than a warhammer, and a +2 damage Weapon Specialization is already considered a good feat, I'm not worried that warhammer's Martial nature would cause the Bastard Sword or DAxe feats to be marginalized into "poor feat" status. Both would still be fairly clearly superior. But I certainly understand the objection.

[dkyle]

You want a blunt, cheep axe made of two different metals because not enough materials were around?

Did you misunderstand my post as a call for a Bludgeoning Khopesh? That's not what I said at all...

I was just explaining the Bludgeon isn't a bad damage type. All else equal (say, Warhammer vs. Battlaxe), the Bludgeoning weapon is likely the most useful, in fact. So buffing the Warhammer without similarly buffing the Battleaxe would be illogical.

[Missing_Minds]

Did you misunderstand my post as a call for a Bludgeoning Khopesh? That's not what I said at all...

I was just explaining the Bludgeon isn't a bad damage type. All else equal (say, Warhammer vs. Battlaxe), the Bludgeoning weapon is likely the most useful, in fact. So buffing the Warhammer without similarly buffing the Battleaxe would be illogical.

*chuckles* I did not. I fully realize it was hypothetical.

If you noticed, I said /not signed to the op's suggestion, not your own.

In real life I'd be more prone to use a blunt rather than a slicer were I to be going against humaniod opponents.

In game terms, blunt does fall behind because there is none with a nat crit range greater than 20.

[dkyle]

*chuckles* I did not. I fully realize it was hypothetical.

OK... Then why did your post quote mine? I don't understand how your post relates to the paragraph you replied to.

[Memnir]

No thank you.
Giving glancing blows to Dwarven Axe and bastard Sword was an attempt to give those exotic weapons a bit more bang for the buck compared to Khopesh. Adding it to a basic Martial weapon is not needed nor justified.


/not signed

[cforce]

Interesting -- I really hadn't anticipated any resistance to this plan.

Out of curiosity, for the naysayers: is it that (A) you don't think lack of viable bludgeoning builds is a problem in the first place, or (B) you don't like this particular "fix", specifically -- but might be behind a different one that didn't use a mechanic currently only available on an exotic ?

[Aesop]

I'm on the /not signed side of things here.

If there was an exotic Bludgeoning weapon that was considered hand an a half then sure that would be a good call for that weapon, but it doesn't really fit with the theme well.

I suppose you could consider the fact that a weapon specialization in Bludgeoning Weapons should cover shield bashing as well then Bludgeoning would have a better niche.

Along with the majority of the stunning enhancements going on the bludgeoning weapons in general.

It would be a good stun build choice and saves a feat.

Aesop

[Missing_Minds]

OK... Then why did your post quote mine? I don't understand how your post relates to the paragraph you replied to.

First line response was to you. I just didn't bother making several posts.

You want a blunt, cheep axe made of two different metals because not enough materials were around?

That apparently is what a khopesh really was. Only sharp and not so much blunt.

[dkyle]

First line response was to you. I just didn't bother making several posts.

That was obvious. It was your first line that still confuses me.

If it's not an implication that I was asking for a blunt Khopesh, then I really have no idea what you meant. But it's not really worth dwelling on any more.

[Jaid314]

alternate solution: add a feat that gives glancing blows when using a warhammer.

[Propane]

Two thoughts-

1) It would be kewl hammers got rolled into the Dwarf's racial +dmg/hit bonus

and

2) Light hammers really, really, need some love - they should be similar to hand axes


Both of these changes and I would suspect you would see more hammers in town