WF Tactical build

[Madduck59]

I'm rather new to this, so please review and comment. I can't decide weather or not to go Slashing with a Great Axe or Bludgeoning and a Maul. Also, are my saves OK? Note: this is a re-do from my original post, I wanted evasion.

Level 20 Lawful Good Warforged Male
(18 Fighter / 2 Monk)
Hit Points: 410
Spell Points: 0

BAB: 19/19/24/29/29
Fortitude: 19
Reflex: 11
Will: 10

(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 25
Dexterity 12 14
Constitution 16 20
Intelligence 14 16
Wisdom 12 14
Charisma 6 8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome at level 7 for all abilities

Level 1 Monk: THF
Level 2 Fighter: Weapon Focus: Slashing
Level 3 Fighter: CE, Insightful Reflexes
Level 4 Fighter:
Level 5 Fighter: Weapon Spec. Slashing
Level 6 Fighter: Toughness
Level 7 Fighter: Power Attack
Level 8 Fighter:
Level 9 Fighter: Cleave, Weapon Focus: Slashing
Level 10 Monk: Toughness (evasion)
Level 11 Fighter:
Level 12 Fighter: ITHF, Stunning Blow
Level 13 Fighter:
Level 14 Fighter: Greater Weapon Spec: Slashing
Level 15 Fighter: Improved Sunder
Level 16 Fighter: Improved Critical: Slashing
Level 17 Fighter:
Level 18 Fighter: Bullheaded, Superior Weapon Focus: Slashing
Level 19 Fighter:
Level 20 Fighter: GTHF

Fighter Attack Boost I, II, III
Fighter Haste Boost I
Kensei Greatsword Mastery I, II, III
Fighter Critical Accuracy I, II, III
Fighter Kensei I, II, III
Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) I, II
Fighter Strategy (Sunder) I, II,
Fighter Strategy (Trip) I, II
Fighter Greatsword Specialization I, II
Racial Toughness I, II
Fighter Strength I, II
Fighter Toughness I, II, III
Warforged Brute Fighting I, II
Warforged Constitution I, II
Warforged Construct Thinking I, II
Warforged Healer's Friend I
Warforged Power Attack I, II
Warforged Tactics I, II, III

[Kinerd]

A maul's just about as good as a greataxe, you're only missing a little base damage. As a THF, however, your long-term goal if you want to do DPS is the epic Sword of Shadows, and it would take a lot of work or an LR to change all your feats from bludgeon to slash.

Insightful Reflexes only gives you +1 Reflex save, you would be better off with Lightning Reflexes if you're that concerned about saves.

Will save is almost completely useless, because we get immunities/buffs that counteract almost every Will-based attack. I would not spend any AP on it, and for the same reason Skill Focus Intim would be better than Bullheaded if you care about the Intim part.

As far as your saves in general go, you can expect +12 to your Reflex save from ubiquitous gear/buffs, which puts you at 23 (or 24 if you swap out the Reflexes feats). That's not great, but it's certainly something, and you could get some less common gear to pump it a little higher.

Haste Boost is a must for competitive DPS, all four ranks.

More Healer's Friend would be extremely appreciated by the divines in your group.

[unbongwah]

Are you going for AC here? The monk splash, base WIS 12, and CE suggest yes; but you went Kensai and your DEX is low, so I wasn't sure.

Other issue is your Reflex & Will saves are kinda low; they usually are on a mostly-fighter build and DEX & WIS 12 don't provide a big boost. WF are immune to Hold spells, which is the major PITA among Will-based spells; but Evasion doesn't do much good with low Reflex.

[Madduck59]

Thanks for the responses. I'm going to re-work and post a bit latter based on your responses, going entirely WF Fighter. But sounds like staying with Slashing weapons is preferable, and I don't really need to worry about will saves with WF.

The CE feat is a pre-req. for Improved Trip, which I failed to take..duh. I'm not entirely sure that it's worth it though, since I don't believe I'll ever have CE on, I prefer to use Power Attack.

My goal is a tactical fighter, not too concerned with AC. I believe my choices for this are limited to WF or Dwarf.

[MeToo]

I'm leveling a 34 point Dwarf with this split right now (The Wise Warrior). I'm at level 13 and have quite a bit of gear to grind out, but that's only because I'm going for AC and hate tanking along with good stunning fist, stunning blow and improved trip as I level. You could swap enhancements back and forth to Kensei at any level with the exact same feat progression but I'm finding the AC too good so far and the tactics strong enough to do stuff on hard and elite.

You could adapt it to be a 32 point build but the fighter past life does help the to-hit and tactics DCs. I like divine healing amp and the +2 WIS but you could also make it warforged if you wish to benefit from Power Attack enhancements and brute fighting.

I'm enjoying my 2nd life immensely. Hopefully you can find something there that you like.

[Jay203]

personally i went with 12/6/2 Fighter/Paladin/Monk
gives me fear immunity, higher saves, smites, and bladesworn transformation
then again, it's just me

btw, i went with quarterstaff (blunt focus) for stunning focus and ability to use the monk stances + the ki strikes

[Madduck59]

After reading the posts, I've switch to the Dwarf Tactical build presented by MeToo. Personnally I was never married to the idea of Two-Handed Fighting over TWF, just thought the feats would work out better. Maybe I would have found your build earlier if I wasn't so focus on WF, My main toon is a level 11 WF Monk.

Anyway, I went a slightly different route on my build sticking with the Dwarven War-Axe, but giving up 1 level of Tactics for this. That's one DC vs. 6 AP for the tactics III, I think its worth it, and I gain one feat no Khopesh.

BTW MeToo, I like your reference to the pain in the ***, Coyle Lovell.

Anyway, here's my version of "The Wise Warrior":

Level 20 Lawful Good Dwarf Male
(18 Fighter / 2 Monk)
Hit Points: 358
Spell Points: 0

BAB: 19/19/24/29/29
Fortitude: 18
Reflex: 12
Will: 11

(32 Point) (Level 1) - (Level 20)
Strength 16 - 21
Dexterity 15 - 17
Constitution 16 - 18
Intelligence 12 - 14
Wisdom 12 - 14
Charisma 6 - 6

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7

Skills (Level 1) - (Level 20)
Balance 6 - 29
Intimidate 0 - 24
Jump 7 - 27
Tumble 4 - 5

1 Monk: Toughness, TWF
2 Fighter: Weapon Focus: Slashing
3 Fighter: Dodge, OTWF
4 Fighter:
5 Fighter: CE (pre-req for improved trip)
6 Fighter: Weapon Spec. Slashing
7 Fighter: Improved Trip
8 Monk: Power Attack (pre-req for Improved Sunder) I want anyway
9 Fighter: ITWF
10 Fighter: Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing
11 Fighter:
12 Fighter: GTWF, Improved Sunder
13 Fighter:
14 Fighter: Greater Weapon Spec. Slashing
15 Fighter: Stunning Blow
16 Fighter: Improved Crit. Slashing
17 Fighter:
18 Fighter: Sap, Superior Weapon Focus: Slashing
19 Fighter:
20 Fighter: Two Weapon Def

Fighter Attack Boost: I, II, III
Fighter Haste Boost: I, II, III
Fighter Critical Accuracy: I, II, III
Fighter Kensei: I, II, III
Dwarven Axe Attack: I, II
Dwarven Axe Dmg: I, II
Dwarven Constitution: I, II
Dwarven Tactics: I, II
Kensei Dwarven Waraxe Mastery: I, II, III
Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow): I, II, III
Fighter Strategy (Sunder): I, II, III
Fighter Strategy (Trip): I, II, III
Fighter Dwarven Waraxe Specialization I, II
Racial Toughness I, II
Fighter Toughness I, II

[unbongwah]

My goal is a tactical fighter, not too concerned with AC. I believe my choices for this are limited to WF or Dwarf.

Also remember that HOs are inherently "tactical" in the sense that +2 base STR and +2 STR HO enhs -> +2 DCs as well as boosting DPS. A WF or dwarf only comes out ahead if you have Tactics III and that's expensive enough that you're unlikely to be able to fit it onto most WF / dwarf fighters.

personally i went with 12/6/2 Fighter/Paladin/Monk
gives me fear immunity, higher saves, smites, and bladesworn transformation
then again, it's just me

That's a good combo, IMHO, esp. on a non-WF; essentially you trade DPS for higher saves, pally wand usage, fear & disease immunity, some burst DPS boosts (Smite Evil etc.), and some hate-tanking boosts. Rogue splash works too if you either don't have monk or would rather have UMD than two extra feats + WIS AC bonus.

[Madduck59]

So I tried my hand at the Dwarf build, and while I like the toon, I was a little disappointed in the tactics. Trip and sunder armor don't land very often, even after I added 1 AP of tactics + 1 AP of strategy (trip) and strategy (sunder). That should have given my a +2 to the DC, maybe its a bit early, when the do land its wonderful. You can see the DPS go up when sunder hits and it sure is nice to attack a tripped up monster without getting attacked back.

I was able to easily get him to level 3, but getting off of Korthos and to level 3 is easy, a one legged half blind toon can do this.

Here is another try at a WF THF version, I'm going to try this one tonight:

Note: I've got 2 levels of Healer's friend and 3 levels of Haste, wish I could pick one more of each but enhancements are a bit tight.

Level 20 Lawful Good Warforged Male
(20 Fighter)
Hit Points: 384
Spell Points: 0

BAB: 20/20/25/30/30
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 6
Will: 5

(32 Point) Start - End
Strength 18 - 24
Dexterity 10 - 10
Constitution 16 - 18 (+1 tome to round to 18)
Intelligence 14 - 14
Wisdom 8 - 8
Charisma 6 - 6

Skills: Balance, Jump, Intimidate, ??? I tried UMD but came out to only 9.5 so maybe Spot and/or Repair

1 – Toughness, THF
2 – Power Attack
3 – Improved Sunder
4 – Weapon Focus: Slashing
5 –
6 – Stunning Blow, Weapon Spec.: Slashing
7 –
8 – CE
9 – Improved Trip
10 – Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing
11 –
12 – Greater Weapon Spec.: Slashing, ITHF
13 –
14 – Cleave
15 – GTHF
16 – Superior Weapon Focus: Slashing
17 –
18 – Improved Critical: Slashing, Toughness (or brutal throw???)
19 –
20 – Quick Draw (???)


Fighter Attack Boost I, II, III
Fighter Haste Boost I, II, III
Fighter Weapon Alacrity
Kensei Greatsword Mastery I, II
Fighter Critical Accuracy I, II, III
Fighter Kensei I, II, III
Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) I, II, III
Fighter Strategy (Sunder) I, II, III
Fighter Strategy (Trip) I, II, III
Fighter Greatsword Specialization I
Racial Toughness I, II
Fighter Strength I
Fighter Toughness I, II
Warforged Constitution I
Warforged Healer's Friend I, II
Warforged Power Attack I, II
Warforged Tactics I, II, III