Weapons to rival the Epic SoS

[Kinerd]

Epic SoS is obviously by far the most powerful weapon in the game, by such a margin that THF does more damage than TWF. How is it that with a higher build cost and general cost is needed for TWF (Needs dex, a pain for a lot of toons that would otherwise dump dex) and force you to work twice as hard to get weapons (MUCH more than twice as hard when it comes to getting Epic Chaosblades) does less damage than THF?

I think we need more epic weapons that can match the DPS of the Epic SoS, and rebalance TWF and THF in endgame. Maybe something to boost the DPS a bit from E Chaos blades, and make new epic Schimitars/Rapiers and Khopeshes that feel more epic than a lot of the weak epic weapons we've seen so far.

The eSoS suffers greatly against targets with fortification. If you are of the opinion that a melee's primary job is boss DPS, it follows that you favor TWF. There is also the point that Cannith khopeshes (for instance) never need a new DR crystal, which for at least some people is a non-negligible investment.

[stille_nacht]

flame me all you want, but i think eSoS needs a slight nerf, i mean, its just... waaaaaaaaaay out in front. This isnt like 3-4 points of damage, this is more than 15/swing ahead of other weapons, its like getting triple+ power attack with to-hit gained..

[mournbladereigns]

flame me all you want, but i think eSoS needs a slight nerf, i mean, its just... waaaaaaaaaay out in front. This isnt like 3-4 points of damage, this is more than 15/swing ahead of other weapons, its like getting double power attack..

^THIS^

Seriously, balancing a *GLARINGLY* OP item by introducing more *GLARINGLY* OP items is just a bad idea.

A reasonable nerf for eSoS would be from

5d6+10 18-20/x3

to

3d10+8 18-20/x3 adamantine, with same slots.

That would still put the plus at supra epic, and give it massive base damage (avg dmg would be 1pt less (16.5 vs 17.5) with higher chance of extreme results (i.e. 25-30 dmg.)

[Battlehawke]

There once was a post about daggers that seemed very similar. The OP argued that because they were faster and because of the requirements to dual wield them effectively, they should be the highst DPS in the game. I thought he was off his rocker, but he made a good argument. I guess something has always got to be the best. I personally think spending a feat on kamas or bastard swords is robbery. Anyways, I remember when Khops were god!

[Shade]

flame me all you want, but i think eSoS needs a slight nerf, i mean, its just... waaaaaaaaaay out in front. This isnt like 3-4 points of damage, this is more than 15/swing ahead of other weapons, its like getting triple+ power attack with to-hit gained..

Meh, 2 horrible things:
1.Asking for nerfs instead of using some simple logic to fix the issue without nerfing.
2. Throwing out 100% FALSE MADE UP FIGURES. To attempt to back up your nonsense.

There is almost no difference in the dps of a ESoS compared to the next best epic two hander: xuum, infact xuum can be superior in several cases.

But for a basic comparison with barrage, using my char who has both weapons for stats (bbn 20, 10 seeker, dmg mod 85 vs 88 since xuum is 3 less)
ESoS:
Final Averaged Swing
210.2875 = 172.525(Weapon) + 37.7625(Bonus)
Xuum:
Final Averaged Swing
209.0625 = 154.7(Weapon) + 54.3625(Bonus)

Nearly identical.. all of 1 damage per swing difference, not "more then 15". that includes factoring the better glancing blows of the esos. If I didnt factor them - say for twitch, Xuum is higher.
Or for mobs weak to fire like trolls, xuum is higher.

Xuum is a FAR FAR FAR more difficult to get weapon, so it should actually be slightly more powerful, but thats besides the point.

What wrong with epic two handers?
All the ones that aren't falcions, or crit like falcions, are balanced incorrectly. As turbine doesn't seem to understand the power of enhanced crit ranges/multipliers, and failed to apply them ot other weapons, or increase their base enough to compete.

Whats the solution?
Exactly what Genasi is doing with the upcoming antique greataxe fix - FIXING THE BAD WEAPONS TO COMPETE.

So the only thing that should be nerfed is people who whine and complain without even understading the issue at all. There is nothing wrong with the esos, IT WAS ALREADY NERFED. Its in line with what epic weapons should be.

The issue is other epic two handers, and most one handers too, are underpowered.

[Illiain]

Epic Dueling Schlager
3d8+10 17-20/x3 Pierce, Good, Magic
+10 enhancement bonus
Flametouched iron
Red Augment slot

[Dartwick]

The eSOS needs to be nerfed.

Its the only weapon in its league. There are no "simple" changes to fix this.
We dont need to change the balance of the rest of the game - we just need to reduce the 1 seriously over powered weapon.

EDIT: And improving the same epic Antique Axe to the point of usefulness is NOT the same as making it competitive with the overpowered eSOS.

[paraplegic]

"I'm just glad they REALLY upped the rate of metal type handwraps in 10.1 ".

confirm? didnt see that post, can u link it?

[ttonailq]

Wraps need more love than 1 handed weapons. There's only 1 epic handwraps and it's from Mabar.

This ^

[bebeosita]

Epic SoS is obviously by far the most powerful weapon in the game, by such a margin that THF does more damage than TWF. How is it that with a higher build cost and general cost is needed for TWF (Needs dex, a pain for a lot of toons that would otherwise dump dex) and force you to work twice as hard to get weapons (MUCH more than twice as hard when it comes to getting Epic Chaosblades) does less damage than THF?

I think we need more epic weapons that can match the DPS of the Epic SoS, and rebalance TWF and THF in endgame. Maybe something to boost the DPS a bit from E Chaos blades, and make new epic Schimitars/Rapiers and Khopeshes that feel more epic than a lot of the weak epic weapons we've seen so far.

I agree in the point we need more epic weapons to match the dps of esos but we need an great axe!! why all the barbs need use esos to get a decent dps? the icon is an axe the weapon must be a axe to look good lol.

[bebeosita]

The eSOS needs to be nerfed.

Its the only weapon in its league. There are no "simple" changes to fix this.
We dont need to change the balance of the rest of the game - we just need to reduce the 1 seriously over powered weapon.

EDIT: And improving the same epic Antique Axe to the point of usefulness is NOT the same as making it competitive with the overpowered eSOS.

Agree nerf esos .

[Chai]

You're missing the point. Even if they come close, it's still more cost for less benefit. Top end TWF should beat Top end THF in DPS against a single target.

Im not missing any point at all.

TWF shouldnt win simply because people feel its more investment when its not. I could farm 2x lit2 khopesh any day before farming one eSOS. Up to and until that point, I would be using holy burst geob to smack devil bosses, while the equivilent greatsword wouldnt come close. The whole "moar farming" thing is a myth, perpetuated by those who favor TWF in order to try and keep their chosen style on top.

I dont agree with the whole feat cost thing either. Even feat starved rogues and paladins can fit khopesh in. If there wer elike 15 great melee feats in the game we could talk about this, but there isnt.

And I would also like to see epic Rapiers, Schimis and whatnot that compete. Like I said, I would like to see, at end game top gear, more choice in what weapons to use without feeling like you're using an inferior weapon or fighting style.

This I can agree with. Too bad the epic rapiers are house D ROFL. The cove scimitars are great if the mob is lawful, or in the very least, not chaotic.

[rodallec]

Esos is a portal beater

[Xiadais]

Monks seem to get picked on by devs. I'm just glad they REALLY upped the rate of metal type handwraps in 10.1 and made it much easier to get holy/silver wraps.

But yeah, Wraps need to be focussed on too. Just over all need more weapons to balance fighting styles so it's not "Focus on the playstyle you like best, until you get the eSoS".

I really don't get why Turbine makes finding weapons for one of their p2p classes hard. It just doesn't make sense from a money-making standpoint (as far as I can tell, lol).