Familiars, Ranger and Druid pets

[fatherpirate]

If I am not mistaken, these 3 classes of pets are far more loyal and controlable then even a hireling in D+D.

I also understand there are certain mechnics to DDO that must be considered. So I make the following suggestion,
to bring these special pets more in line with PnP while keeping it in tune with current mechanics.

Stormreach needs 2 new vendors. A Mage/Sorc Familiar summoning vendor and a Ranger/(coming soon) Druid
Pet vendor.

A mage/sorc or a ranger/druid should be able to purchase a perm. pet contract of the correct lvl (also ungrade
thier current pet at the vendor when they lvl). In addition, they should be able, if lucky to find a pet as 'loot'.

Here is how the pet contract works.

1 They Might be class specific...some rare loot ones are not and can be used ...with limits.. by anyone.
2. If you don't have Mage/Sorc/Ranger/Druids lvl's they act like a normal summons (repeatable with rest)
3. They take up a party slot....YES they do, but don't count toward summon limit..it is just like summoning a
hireling.
4. When summoned by a mage/sorc/ranger/druid they get an action bar that is just like a hireling one and
the owner can control them and give them instructions just like a hireling...unless they are off class, then they
act on thier own...similar to a palemaster's undead pet.
5. A pet's horbar abilities are based on the pet, the pet's lvl and if the owner used enhancement points
to teach thier pet new tricks...other than what they already know.
6. If the pets dies...and it is a hotbar pet, it can be rez'd or resummoned after resting...if your off class, you
have to rest.
7. There is a cooldown as well between summonings if the pet dies and your off class....the usual.
8. Pets have names....not 'wolf', this helps party members ID which is which.
9. Since these pets take up a party spot, they show up in the party list...easier to buff or heal them.

These pets SHOULD be as useful as a hireling...they take up a hireling slot...they need to pull thier weight.

These pets SHOULD stay close to thier masters and not run off attacking everything, unless instructed to.

These pets are SMART, if a trap is triggered, they will avoid it if they can..unless thier master runs through
it, then they will bravely stay at thier side....when going through a trap, they will follow thier master's footsteps.

They take clues from thier master, if the master goes into sneak mode, they will as well...if they can.
If a monster is sneaking and has targeted thier master, and is close, and they detect them, they will attack it,
unless instructed to be passive. In most cases, if the pet detects it and they are a mage/sorc/ranger/druid, thier
master will automatically share the detection... as per PnP.

If the pets dies, the master gets a sadness debuff until the pet is restored or some time passes.

Important...if the master dies but the pet lives, the pet can be instructed to take your soul gem, then the master
'takes over the pet, and can direct it. Usually to a rez shrine. ONLY if your a Mage/Sorc/Druid or a higher
lvl ranger. This is the very special ability of these very special pets.

Many may say...I don't want a party slot taken up by some blasted Ranger's pet ! These pets are are like hirelings,
in fact better than hirelings in many ways...but if you need the room, ask them not to summon it. Easy enuff.

Last note...if a Mage/Sorc has a unsummoned pet, they can summon it anywhere in a dungeon or the entrance
of an outdoor area. In coverse, a ranger/druid can summon at the entrance of a dungeon or anywhere in the
outdoors. Off class is stuck only summoning it at the entrance, same as a hireling.

There is my suggestion, I welcome comments

[Aliss7]

I'm not really sold on your ideas for pets/familiars. It makes them basically hirelings. If we're going to get pets/familiars, I'd like a totally new mechanic introduced, for instance:

0. you have to be a certain class (ranger/wizard) to even be able to have a pet/familiar.

1. there is procedure/ritual that must be followed to "summon" a pet. for example, a ranger that wanted say an elder razor cat, he'd need to be in ataraxia's haven at night and "build" some type of trap. success would _not_ be guaranteed.

2. once you get your pet/familiar, they stick around with you all the time, even in public instances (note: read on in part 3).

3. you get a hotbar to control them like hirelings, but they do _not_ take up a party slot. I think it's also critical that you can tell your pet/familar to "stay home"... in other words, you don't have to take them on adventures. If you do tell them to "stay home", you just can't "summon" them while you are in a raid or party, you would need to get back to a public instance and then "summon" them. (aside: if we had private housing we could keep our pet/familiar there and that's where we would go to pick or drop them off)

4. when they die, they die. you cannot resurrect them. if you want another pet you need go back to step 1.

5. pets/familiars are linked to their masters and get buffs/benefits as per pnp... tweaked as the devs see fit.

p.s. pets/familiars are not huge honkin hezrous that fill up half the screen and not loud crashing earth elementals.

[R0cksteady]

I'm not really sold on your ideas for pets/familiars. It makes them basically hirelings. If we're going to get pets/familiars, I'd like a totally new mechanic introduced, for instance:

0. you have to be a certain class (ranger/wizard) to even be able to have a pet/familiar.

1. there is procedure/ritual that must be followed to "summon" a pet. for example, a ranger that wanted say an elder razor cat, he'd need to be in ataraxia's haven at night and "build" some type of trap. success would _not_ be guaranteed.

2. once you get your pet/familiar, they stick around with you all the time, even in public instances (note: read on in part 3).

3. you get a hotbar to control them like hirelings, but they do _not_ take up a party slot. I think it's also critical that you can tell your pet/familar to "stay home"... in other words, you don't have to take them on adventures. If you do tell them to "stay home", you just can't "summon" them while you are in a raid or party, you would need to get back to a public instance and then "summon" them. (aside: if we had private housing we could keep our pet/familiar there and that's where we would go to pick or drop them off)

3. when they die, they die. you cannot resurrect them. if you want another pet you need go back to step 1.

4. pets/familiars are linked to their masters and get buffs/benefits as per pnp... tweaked as the devs see fit.

p.s. pets/familiars are not huge honkin hezrous that fill up half the screen and not loud crashing earth elementals.

I like this idea. But I'd add, make sure they are powerful enough to be useful. It would also give Rangers a boost that would be helpful to them since they're not as... competitive damage wise as they used to be. not useless, but could use a boost.

Make them take some work to trap, and of course mortal so eventually you'll have to get a new one, like you said, as long as while you have them they kick some ass.

[IONDragonx]

I'm not really sold on your ideas for pets/familiars. It makes them basically hirelings. If we're going to get pets/familiars, I'd like a totally new mechanic introduced, for instance:

0. you have to be a certain class (ranger/wizard) to even be able to have a pet/familiar.

1. there is procedure/ritual that must be followed to "summon" a pet. for example, a ranger that wanted say an elder razor cat, he'd need to be in ataraxia's haven at night and "build" some type of trap. success would _not_ be guaranteed.

2. once you get your pet/familiar, they stick around with you all the time, even in public instances (note: read on in part 3).

3. you get a hotbar to control them like hirelings, but they do _not_ take up a party slot. I think it's also critical that you can tell your pet/familar to "stay home"... in other words, you don't have to take them on adventures. If you do tell them to "stay home", you just can't "summon" them while you are in a raid or party, you would need to get back to a public instance and then "summon" them. (aside: if we had private housing we could keep our pet/familiar there and that's where we would go to pick or drop them off)

4. when they die, they die. you cannot resurrect them. if you want another pet you need go back to step 1.

5. pets/familiars are linked to their masters and get buffs/benefits as per pnp... tweaked as the devs see fit.

p.s. pets/familiars are not huge honkin hezrous that fill up half the screen and not loud crashing earth elementals.

I'm more inclined to vote for this suggestion rather than the OP. However, either will work for me because the idea does need to be implemented.

However, I would make both pets and familiars feats. Wizards could take such a feat as one of their bonus feats.

[Ithaquah]

...

3. you get a hotbar to control them like hirelings, but they do _not_ take up a party slot. I think it's also critical that you can tell your pet/familar to "stay home"... in other words, you don't have to take them on adventures. If you do tell them to "stay home", you just can't "summon" them while you are in a raid or party, you would need to get back to a public instance and then "summon" them. (aside: if we had private housing we could keep our pet/familiar there and that's where we would go to pick or drop them off)

...

I like the "stay home" idea, but there should also be a new spell "Familiar Pocket" that lets you store your pet in a safe place. If I recall, this spell is an actual pen-and-paper spell in D&D that opens an extra-dimensional space that puts your familiar into a safe place in a suspended state to protect them from any damage, but you can call them out at any time.

If you don't want to take up a spell slot with this spell, then you can use the "stay home" command.

(edit) To add some new flavor for DDO, it may work to create a special item, such as a familiar or pet bag that takes up 1 inventory slot, but lets you store a few pets inside (kind of like a hireling folder).

[Thalmor]

I'm not really sold on your ideas for pets/familiars. It makes them basically hirelings. If we're going to get pets/familiars, I'd like a totally new mechanic introduced, for instance:

0. you have to be a certain class (ranger/wizard) to even be able to have a pet/familiar.

1. there is procedure/ritual that must be followed to "summon" a pet. for example, a ranger that wanted say an elder razor cat, he'd need to be in ataraxia's haven at night and "build" some type of trap. success would _not_ be guaranteed.

2. once you get your pet/familiar, they stick around with you all the time, even in public instances (note: read on in part 3).

3. you get a hotbar to control them like hirelings, but they do _not_ take up a party slot. I think it's also critical that you can tell your pet/familar to "stay home"... in other words, you don't have to take them on adventures. If you do tell them to "stay home", you just can't "summon" them while you are in a raid or party, you would need to get back to a public instance and then "summon" them. (aside: if we had private housing we could keep our pet/familiar there and that's where we would go to pick or drop them off)

4. when they die, they die. you cannot resurrect them. if you want another pet you need go back to step 1.

5. pets/familiars are linked to their masters and get buffs/benefits as per pnp... tweaked as the devs see fit.

p.s. pets/familiars are not huge honkin hezrous that fill up half the screen and not loud crashing earth elementals.

0. As a Ranger you'd need to be a certain level to be able to have an animal companion ( PNP calls for level 4), Druids would get at first level.

1. An Animal companion isn't a summoned pet, it is a loyal companion and will follow the Druid or Ranger where another aimal might not. Success would be guranteed, as it is a natural ability of Ranger and Druids.

2. Agreed, they would stay with the ranger/druid unless told to stay somewhere. ( Because they are Special Animals, you woud have to train them with special tricks. Seel Link for more info:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/tt/20051129a

3. I disagree with them having a separate hot bar, you train them with tricks that you add to your hotbar, and they get special feats based on your level.

4. Once they die, you cannot resurrect them, but they would get the chance to be healed once unconsious, just like a regular character. Before Obtaining a new pet you'd have to go through a greving period ( say a 12 Hrs ), before you could summon a new one.

5. Yes, what ever buffs you get the animal gets including heals.

Maybe a beter way of implementing is buy giving the Augmented Summoning Feat for Druid/Ranger (4th Level). And Wiz/Sorc woud get the Summon Familiar Feat that enables them to summon a magical beast that is more powerfull then a the creature that could summon, but they would also have to have the Summoning spell also.

[JPDefault]

4. when they die, they die. you cannot resurrect them. if you want another pet you need go back to step 1.

You forgot to say that in D&D sorcerers losing a familiar will also lose XP and will have to wait a year and a day to replace it.
I don't see that happening in DDO, but losing a familiar should bear consequences more serious than a "meh".
On the other hand, D&D Druids and Rangers can replace their animal companions more easily so the mechanics there should be different.

[fatherpirate]

You forgot to say that in D&D sorcerers losing a familiar will also lose XP and will have to wait a year and a day to replace it.
I don't see that happening in DDO, but losing a familiar should bear consequences more serious than a "meh".
On the other hand, D&D Druids and Rangers can replace their animal companions more easily so the mechanics there should be different.

A year and a day would be a bit...harsh :-D
Given that in PnP, you need to rest at least 8 hours to get back high lvl spells and in game it takes
about 10 seconds.
I could go with, you cannot resummon until you leave the dungeon. But it is DDO, so most likely just
need to use a rest shrine.

[phum]

I like the progression/upgrading of the pet/familiar in OP. The trapping works for the acquisition quite a bit better than just buying them tho.

However, imo the hirelings (or pets/familiars) could use some additional control love. The current options are inadequate. I hope they give better controls for what ever they might be willing to do for those.

[MaxwellEdison]

As long as I can teach my Razor Cat to use CUT (HM found in tempest spine, in the chest with the Moon Stone) to get through those pesky root walls when I'm on my full time pewpew AA.

Also SURF for the Abbot raid.

[fatherpirate]

My original outline is subject to tweeking and I like the imput so far.

My OP is not perfect and I welcome more input, modifications and addtions.

What is important is that we let the developers know that we would like a new system in place for these
special pets.

NOTE: I totally agree, pets..and summons for that matter should not be the size of a house and as loud as a train.
I don't care what the monster manual says, it is an MMO...give the party members a break, make the summoned
about the size of a human.

OK, we have some good ideas, lets get some more.

Even better- I have put forward my idea for familiars and special pets...lets hear your ideas for it.

I would like interested players to outline THIER idea on how to impliment this part of the game...and post it, lets give the developers
a bunch of ways they could add this feature.

[Cabronsisimo]

Imagine if you could have an astral black panther as companion, and you could name it ...

[Missing_Minds]

Ah... no. lets not do that.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/so....htm#familiars
Note the hit points and attack. Also the bad stuff that happens should the Familar die.

Now add into this, in game, Wizards were granted an additional magical feat to make up for lack of familiar, and Sorcs were given double SP out of sp items. We'd have to take both of those abilities out to make way for familiars. I"ll pass on that one myself.

Now, the pets of druids and rangers... eheh..
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/dr...nimalCompanion

Now you want to teach them? Get ready to lose skill points because that requires handle animal skill which isn't in the game. So it would have to be added if you really wanted to control it. (which in this game would probably just work as an augmentor to make the pet stronger.)

Then look up the list of standard "pets". You'd have to add a lot into the game right now, and new models/animations are some of the most expensive things to do. So sorry, no T-Rex for you. Or for the ranger as...
"ranger’s effective druid level is one-half his ranger level"


Perhaps what would be easier and fast to create would be to have a class based "augment summoning" feat as a bases that would stack with "augment summoning".

[masterzzan]

Now add into this, in game, Wizards were granted an additional magical feat to make up for lack of familiar, and Sorcs were given double SP out of sp items. We'd have to take both of those abilities out to make way for familiars. I"ll pass on that one myself.

not really, Wizards got a free feat because they lost the 'scribe scroll' feat from the pnp D&D that they supposed to get, Sorcerers get double SP because they can cast more spells per day then a wizard in the pnp D&D.

and speaking of what you get in DDO instead of PNP, Rangers get both melee and ranged paths in DDO because they loose the animal pet from the PnP ,that is at least what was posted from the Dev's .

[Seikojin]

I like the initial suggestion. But I think we have to define the function of the pets in more detail.

Everyone in the game with UMD can have a pet via scroll. So I think making a pet contract function will make those who do use pet scrolls a wee bit more powerful. Or strategically, a LOT more powerful. Having a bunch of cc pets would be more preferred than one cc pet and a cleric hireling. Look at the CC air eles + Earth ele, cat pet, etc combos.

I do however believe familiars and ranger pets should exist. It would also make a great third bard pre too. I think what I was suggesting was multiple pet/summon slots granted. For arcanes, one would represent your familiar and the other would be a summon.

What I like is the hireling hotbar for the familiar. Taking a slot is ok, but the hirelings and pets would need serious tweaking in order to be slot useful, imho.

The pet route was soemthign I was thinking for artificer. They could be the main pet class introduced. Having something llike two adamantine golems as their top end pet, or 8 adamantine guard dogs instead.

In reality, I have a ton of ideas, but I am on the wrong side of the screen to make any of them come to life.

[Mister_Peace]

The Angel of Vengeance pet archon is a good design for familiars.

[bigolbear]

summons are notoriously underpowered in this game.

familiars would be best implemented in the same way that the angel of vengence shoulder cannon is. ie its not a seperate creature but rather a form of buff. A wizards familiar is generaly a small or tiny animal such as a cat, rat, bat etc. some wizards have tiny outsiders such as imps or magical creatures such as pseudodragons. thus some sort of 'shoulder creature' would be ideal and we also dont need to wory about the familiar dying (year and a day anyone?)

animal companions on the other hand are a major part of druid/ranger. they need to be hardcore - way beter than any other summon of their lvl.

curently DDO uses a alternate template for both ranger and paladin - to avoid needing animal companions and mounts. (rangers get both weapon styles and paladins get an aura). These alternate templates were in various splat books. The same could be done for druid but i think many people would not be hapy with this - posibly a reason why druid is taking so long along with shapeshifitng.

there is an important feat for wizards too if familiars were to be introduced - improved familiar. This would let the wizard get something akin to an animal companion in power. Id also be in favour of the share spell rule 'any buff cast on the mage/druid/ranger aso gets cast on the familiar' This by itself would go a long way to shoreing up the power difference of these summons.


I like the suggestion of there being a vendor for buying the familiars/companions. its a good way to allow choice and adaptation as we lvl up. It could also be handled just as easily by enhancements.

I dont think a familiar/companion should ever take up a party slot. But i do agree that these summons (infact all summons) need a comand bar - id settle for a dismiss sumon button tho (feat for all classes).

[fatherpirate]

To clerify a bit.

Summons are not pets, it is a creature that is brought into existance...briefly.. and forced to serve.
If you call that a pet you might as well call that kobold you charmed a pet. I prefer to think of summons
as a spell that tracks and hurts monsters...even when you don't want it too.

Pets are different, they take instructions...even if it is basic...sit, stay, attack

As for spending skill points to teach them tricks, nope....Enhancement points, yes. That is optional.

Also there are differences between familiars and pets....familiars are smarter...and they generally stay out
of combat...they make good spys though. Ranger/Druid pets are more for combat.

So

Summons - defend the caster regardless of instruction and are dumb
Druid/Ranger pet - smarter than a summons, obey basic commands
Familiar - very smart, prefer not to combat unless forced, might not obey instructions, might even argue about
it at length.

As for...well caster already get more than PnP so they don't need them.
FYI - non-casters get more than PnP as well...more hit points, more attacks per round, larger to hit bonus on
some of those extra attacks. Every wonder why you always miss that first swing? because that attack
was with your true BAB..when you hit with the next 2..those were the bonus swings that also included
a bonus to your BAB. With the exception of lvl 1 melee get extra attacks- with bonus.

I think most folks against familiars and ranger/druid pets are against summons as well. They see them
as getting in the way and agro magnets. They do have a concern, I am hoping that when/if this is implimented
that these special pets will not get in the way or be agro magnets on the scale that current summons are.

[fatherpirate]

Still looking for more good ideas on a fair. fun. positive way to add Familiars and rng/druid pets to the game.

[ocifferdave]

Still looking for more good ideas on a fair. fun. positive way to add Familiars and rng/druid pets to the game.

I liked how I was able to "be" the wizard's familiar in Neverwinter Nights. I would take over the Mephit familiar and scout ahead, attack monsters, etc, while my wizard stayed back. I wasn't able to control my summoned monster like this however, just the familiar.

It would be so fun to buff the familiar/ranger pet, then control it like controling your character with over the shoulder camera view, and see how much of the dungeon I can do just as the familiar/pet.

In NWN1, if I wasn't controling the familiar then it basically behaved like a summoned pet with a few extra commands (ie hireling commands of stay, follow, agressive, defensive, attack that door/chest).