Attack Bonus +4 Shard

[TheDearLeader]

10 G. Mind
80 L. Mind
5 Purified Ebb Shards
1 "Mark of Yugoloth"
1 Mysterious Plant



Mark of Yuguloth, as seen above. 500 Plat Base Price, but of course the vendor there charges you closer to 1000, unless you're on a Haggle'ish toon. On a Haggle 68 Toon, they will be more like 798 plat.

...Thoughts?

[Khurse]

10 G. Mind
80 L. Mind
5 Purified Ebb Shards
1 "Mark of Yugoloth"
1 Mysterious Plant



Mark of Yuguloth, as seen above. 500 Plat Base Price, but of course the vendor there charges you closer to 1000, unless you're on a Haggle'ish toon. On a Haggle 68 Toon, they will be more like 798 plat.

...Thoughts?

Still stupidly cheap.

They really should have made +3 Attack and left the +4 on Epic gear.

[IBCROOTBEER]

Seems to fall in line with the cost of the Yugo pots ... just another way to drain the economy of plat.

[Yaga_Nub]

Still stupidly cheap.

They really should have made +3 Attack and left the +4 on Epic gear.

Completely agree.

[sirgog]

A reasonable price for a shard that makes quality items that are good stepping stones into epics, but far inferior to actual Epic items like the Epic Spectral Gloves.

I'd like to see a cheaper +3 version added, perhaps using a Medium Arrowhead.

[Emag]

A reasonable price for a shard that makes quality items that are good stepping stones into epics, but far inferior to actual Epic items like the Epic Spectral Gloves.

I'd like to see a cheaper +3 version added, perhaps using a Medium Arrowhead.

Meh Epic Spectrals are the third best epic gloves at best, but the item is definitely inferior to Epic Ravens Set with the gem.

[Rawel_San]

Still stupidly cheap.

They really should have made +3 Attack and left the +4 on Epic gear.

this^^ a hundered times over. I liked the spectral gloves cost.

Is the ml still 9? if so I think it should cost two pairs of gloves.

[Rawel_San]

also didn't they say you couldn't make items that are better then raid gear? show me a piece of raid gear that
has +4 attack

[Shade]

also didn't they say you couldn't make items that are better then raid gear? show me a piece of raid gear that
has +4 attack

They did, and they were very wrong.

I mean the bravos sword is raid gear..

The hellstroke greataxe is raid gear..

Hell the crappy nightblade is raid gear, and it's nothing more then a +2 keen byesk falcion, very easily to craft the exact same thing, or better.

So the statement was a bit too broad..

Should read epic gear or high lvl raid gear (17+)

I don't see the reason for the arbitrary restriction anyways.

Leveling crafting to lvl100 is far more difficult a grind then completing enough raids to get a specific item. So imo the best crafting should exceed most raid gear, just not epic raid gear, or other rare epics.

[Rawel_San]

They did, and they were very wrong.

I mean the bravos sword is raid gear..

The hellstroke greataxe is raid gear..

Hell the crappy nightblade is raid gear, and it's nothing more then a +2 keen byesk falcion, very easily to craft the exact same thing, or better.

So the statement was a bit too broad..

Should read epic gear or high lvl raid gear (17+)

I don't see the reason for the arbitrary restriction anyways.

Leveling crafting to lvl100 is far more difficult a grind then completing enough raids to get a specific item. So imo the best crafting should exceed most raid gear, just not epic raid gear, or other rare epics.

The point I was making it's actually better then ANY raid gear. Not just bad raid gear.

Also it's not harder to level crafting then getting raid gear. It's actually much easier it just will cost you plat. You can't buy a chattering ring or
epic spectral gloves. You can buy level 100 crafting by just buying up enough essences and then sitting in the crafting hall for a couple/many hours.
To get epic spectrals you have to run a fairly hard epic quest 20-30 times if you're lucky. Also (and this is the kicker) when you want another
pair of epic spectrals you have to run that quest another 20-30 times whereas you just go to the crafting hall and pay almost nothing to get the
+4 attack goggles for all your characters. Don't get me wrong I'm looking forward to make +4 attack goggles for all my lowbies once crafting reopens
it just seems wrong.

[TheDearLeader]

The point I was making it's actually better then ANY raid gear. Not just bad raid gear.

Sneak Attack +5 from Tharne's is better, provided you don't have aggro. Not just does it give an extra +1 to attack, but it gives you 8 more damage per swing. Oh, and True Seeing. Oh, and Spot + Search 15. Oh, AND the chance at a set bonus.

At most, someone could craft something like Int +6 of Attack Bonus +4, and that would be a ML:20 accessory. Compared with it's closest relative, the Epic Spectral Gloves:

Attack Bonus 4 - Attack Bonus 4 (Equal)
Ethereal - No Ethereal (Spectrals are Better)
Dex + 7 - Int + 6 (Spectrals are Better)
Yellow Slot - No Slot (Spectrals are Better)

Oh gee. the ML:13 Raid loot was better than the ML:9 Clean Goggles, and the ML:20 Goggles pale in comparison to eSpectrals.

So, if the intent was for Cannith Crafting to be less powerful than named items? Mission accomplished.

The Tharnes? A single VoD, if you're one of those lucky jerks. The eSpectrals? A little tougher, sure, but target eOoB, and it happens, I promise you. And along the way, you get plenty more base Spectral Gloves to sell off, and make a nice profit.

Crafting these Goggles, or more accuractely getting the Arcane level necessary to craft the shard, is more hours devoted than either. Moving on from that to collect the Craftable +13 or +14 to make the ML:20 version is even more than that.

[Rawel_San]

Sneak Attack +5 from Tharne's is better, provided you don't have aggro. Not just does it give an extra +1 to attack, but it gives you 8 more damage per swing. Oh, and True Seeing. Oh, and Spot + Search 15. Oh, AND the chance at a set bonus.

At most, someone could craft something like Int +6 of Attack Bonus +4, and that would be a ML:20 accessory. Compared with it's closest relative, the Epic Spectral Gloves:

Attack Bonus 4 - Attack Bonus 4 (Equal)
Ethereal - No Ethereal (Spectrals are Better)
Dex + 7 - Int + 6 (Spectrals are Better)
Yellow Slot - No Slot (Spectrals are Better)

Oh gee. the ML:13 Raid loot was better than the ML:9 Clean Goggles, and the ML:20 Goggles pale in comparison to eSpectrals.

So, if the intent was for Cannith Crafting to be less powerful than named items? Mission accomplished.

I'm sorry in what way do you compare Tharne's (ml 13) has sneak attack +5 to Attack +4 goggles (ml 9) (4
levels lower) has +4 to attack at all time and STACKS with the +4 from wretched twilight or any other + to sneak attack item.
You can also use it while solo or tanking.

That's like saying a +2 to strength item is better then the litany since it gives you 1 more to strength.

Edit: to reply to yours. I know people who went to 40 runs before they got their Tharne's (especially when you're not running guild runs).
Moreover even if it does take longer to get to the arcane level neded (and let's face it I don't care about the +6 int +4 to attack bonus that I can use
at lvl 20 so it's a ml 9 with something like +8 craftable?) at the same time you're working on making your GLOB's, GEOB's, seeker (if as madfloyd hinted
slot requirements are relaxed this might come on your ring) ml 13 +15 to skills items, GCB's, Greater false life, and eventually maybe also smiting,
banishing and paralyzing. You can not compare the grind to get one pair of those goggles to the grind needed to get one pair of spectrals or tharne's
or whatever else. Since you're getting your tharne's your spectral's your MIN II's and your bloodstone at the same time.

[TheDearLeader]

I'm sorry in what way do you compare Tharne's (ml 13) has sneak attack +5 to Attack +4 goggles (ml 9) (4
levels lower) has +4 to attack at all time and STACKS with the +4 from wretched twilight or any other + to sneak attack item.
You can also use it while solo or tanking.

That's like saying a +2 to strength item is better then the litany since it gives you 1 more to strength.

If you're tanking, I sorely hope you don't *need* an Attack Bonus +4 shard, so I find that point to be moot.

Solo is true - but is that a bad thing? Tharnes when you're in a party, +4 Attack Goggles when solo.

If you'd prefer, I could compare the ML:9 Goggles to the ML:13 Base Spectrals? If you're a Finesse build, Spectrals give you either the same, or a better to-hit, depending on how that +5 Dex hits you, and bestows other benefits at the same time.

Since you're getting your tharne's your spectral's your MIN II's and your bloodstone at the same time.

Patently not true, and you should feel guilty for suggesting that. Three of those four items have more abilities than you can put on a Cannith Crafted item of any level (in the case of Tharne's, 4 distinct and different Suffixes), and for those same three, abilities you cannot put on accessories (Tharne's set bonus, Ethereal on Spectrals, Stoneskin clickie on Min II). And if you're talking about endgame - you seriously can't expect many of the "top geared" will use a Seeker ring, when they can wear a ToD ring instead.

[Rawel_San]

If you're tanking, I sorely hope you don't *need* an Attack Bonus +4 shard, so I find that point to be moot.

Solo is true - but is that a bad thing? Tharnes when you're in a party, +4 Attack Goggles when solo.

If you'd prefer, I could compare the ML:9 Goggles to the ML:13 Base Spectrals? If you're a Finesse build, Spectrals give you either the same, or a better to-hit, depending on how that +5 Dex hits you, and bestows other benefits at the same time.

If you're tanking where? Elite tod? you better not. Von3 at lvl 9 (that's the ml) I sure as hell want an
extra +4 to attack. And to be fair I will so use +4 attack goggles and wretched twilight on my monk till I make epic spectrals for killing epic VoN6 djinns.
Also even in a party you are very unlikely to be getting sneak attacks all the time unless you're in a raid situation. And even then +4 attack goggles and
wretched twilight/epic brawling gloves for the win.

[TheDearLeader]

If you're tanking where? Elite tod? you better not. Von3 at lvl 9 (that's the ml) I sure as hell want an
extra +4 to attack. And to be fair I will so use +4 attack goggles and wretched twilight on my monk till I make epic spectrals for killing epic VoN6 djinns.

"Tanking" VoN 3 at level? They're a bunch of wimpy Drow, and a couple beholders. Trap the wrist, flip, walk away.

Also.. so wait - You disagree with their low cost, but you're going to make them, and use them?

Since you think they should cost more, and I don't want you to feel guilty - you can mail the Two Spectral Gloves to me for each shard you make. Need me to roll a toon on your server?

[Rawel_San]

I wasn't actually trying to imply you would have a designated "tank" for von 3, but as you agree you don't then
you're most likely not getting sneak attacks.

As for me feeling ashamed about implying that you are making minII's, tharne's, spectrals and bloodstone
all at once I don't. Ofcourse you don't actually get to craft a min II but you do get to craft a boss beater that
strictly surpasses it in much of the important content (ToD, VoD and shroud for sure I haven't done the numbers
for lailat since she lost acid resist).

You are also not crafting spectral's or tharne's but you're getting an item
that has lower ML and SURPASSES the attack bonus on spectrals. While finesse builds (and we all know how many
of those are running around if they go and read the forums) will possibly get more out of spectrals the only
thing most builds will really lose off of spectrals is the ghost touch. For anyone without and evasion splash
the +4 goggles will likely be a better choice especially with the increased drop rate of the etheral bracers and
the prolific use of the mabar cloak.

As for the seeker not being useful on a ring I for one have one character that would love it and it would complete
his tanking set on a lvl 20 with 4 pieces of epic gear (including epic gloves of the claw and epic mrorranon helm).
I can't use a second tod ring since I either need chattering ring ( being swapped out actually) or the new
version of epic grim's bracelet which precludes using 2 sets anyhow.

In my mind the crafting essentially removes the need for min II's completely. The places you need them
(dr breaking on bosses) you can craft things that are better and everywhere else you really want lit II's anyhow.

My point here is not that cannith crafting let's you make things which are strictly better then shroud gear or
good raid gear but it definitely lets you make things that are localy much better and more over easier to obtain
once you get past the initial grind.

Also note that when you are trying to disagree you go and argue with some of the BEST raid and epic gear in the
game that is not at all easy to obtain versus something that once you've spent a while crafting will take you all
of 10 mins and 10k plat to make.

[Cyr]

These goggles compete with epic spectrals and raven's sight set.

The epic spectrals have tons of competition for the glove slot, but have some very nice additional bonuses making them well worth considering on various builds. I don't expect people to consider epic spectrals junk anytime soon so not a real concern in my opinion for those.

Raven's sight goggles will still be the choice for anyone using the gem for another set bonus from the fen's also. Again, the item is not considered a junk item and does not look like it will be by this.

The crafted alternative IS very nice and fits into plenty of builds. I don't see a problem with that. If there are not items worth making in the crafting system then why bother leveling up your crafter. Even this fringe case item does not eliminate demand for the two closest competitors and that seems like a good way to evaluate it's effects on other gear in a quick and non lengthy fashion.

[Yaga_Nub]

For the same reason they pulled FoM runes from DT armor, they should pull +4 attack bonus from the crafting tables.

[Rawel_San]

These goggles compete with epic spectrals and raven's sight set.

The epic spectrals have tons of competition for the glove slot, but have some very nice additional bonuses making them well worth considering on various builds. I don't expect people to consider epic spectrals junk anytime soon so not a real concern in my opinion for those.

Raven's sight goggles will still be the choice for anyone using the gem for another set bonus from the fen's also. Again, the item is not considered a junk item and does not look like it will be by this.

The crafted alternative IS very nice and fits into plenty of builds. I don't see a problem with that. If there are not items worth making in the crafting system then why bother leveling up your crafter. Even this fringe case item does not eliminate demand for the two closest competitors and that seems like a good way to evaluate it's effects on other gear in a quick and non lengthy fashion.

Fair enough. Any chance you feel at all nervous about the fact that you are comparing a ml 9 item that can be
eventually crafted in 10 mins with 10k worth of stuff to ml 20 epic items which you need to run eOOB or eDeeps
many times to make?

[Cyr]

Fair enough. Any chance you feel at all nervous about the fact that you are comparing a ml 9 item that can be
eventually crafted in 10 mins with 10k worth of stuff to ml 20 epic items which you need to run eOOB or eDeeps
many times to make?

That would be a different concern. One that revolves around the ML of the item. That seems like a valid discusion to have.

The nonsense, and I repeat nonsense, that equates the base price of recipes as their actual cost is irrelevant as it requires orders of magnitude higher to craft any of the really good recipes in the first place. As long as the leveling costs of crafting are so high it really is pointless to worry about the costs of bound recipes. It's really not that important if you can craft a million +4 attack bonus shards that are BtA. IF there were a huge number of really top notch items that you could and would be making through crafting then the individual costs for BtA recipes would be more relevant. As it stands though besides boss beaters and these goggles there is not a whole lot that people really are bothering with that they couldn't just buy off the AH for a pitance.