The "New" Holy Burst

[dkyle]

Ok... but imperfection is not something to strive for. If a failure is minor and unavoidable, ok, let it be. But if it is avoidable, there is no good reason to not change it. So maybe that change would require another look at how we handle metals. That would be a good thing. The crafting is in beta. I assume the devs would like us to provide feedback on how it should work. I don't understand why one would say, "yes, it's not ok, yes it could be better, but let's just let it go." There is too much complacency in this game.

If you would like to propose a full system where where both +1 Holy Burst Kamas and +5 Holy Burst Silver Khopeshes of Greater Evil Outsider Bane are fairly priced, along with every other weapon possible, I'd like to hear it.

It's easy to say you can just change things. But how? In the current system, making the Kama a fair price by reducing the cost of Holy Burst shard means radically reducing the price of the Khopesh. Increasing the cost of Shards of Potential to compensate would harm lesser weapons (say a +5 Holy Burst of Greater Undead Bane). And that's ignoring that very good weapons don't even need high potential. That Khopesh isn't even a +15 potential, yet I'm hard pressed to think of anything better than it.

Again, this is the problem I'm talking about. If you read back a little bit you'll find what I'm talking about:

I didn't reply to that post. The first post of yours I replied to was: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...20#post3939320

I was addressing more the favor and material requirements, as those are what were "New" in this patch.

As for the CL: your argument could apply to almost every shard in the game. Should every shard be in the 0-30 range, except shards of potential? A character isn't likely to get much past 30 on first leveling to 13, and every shard that can be found on random gear, can be found by that level.

If they invest in it heavily as they level, I feel they should be able to craft items that they will use, instead of leveling to 20, crafting tons of useless **** which is promptly destroyed, and then finally being able to be excited about what you can make.

Really, what the devs should do, is make a bunch of specific recipes just for low level players to use. Give them low CL, a little lower ML, but strictly limit what can be made, and give them a higher per-item essense cost than the normal way. Like a +2 Shock of PG might be craftable at CL 10, with the normal ML of 6, but nothing better without getting a higher CL, and it would require maybe twice as many essences as normal. I.e., paying extra now, instead of paying to level, then paying to craft later.

Let the fully flexible system cater to endgame, but give low level players something to do with their crafting skills as they level.

[Tsuarok]

If you would like to propose a full system where where both +1 Holy Burst Kamas and +5 Holy Burst Silver Khopeshes of Greater Evil Outsider Bane are fairly priced, along with every other weapon possible, I'd like to hear it.

It's easy to say you can just change things. But how? In the current system, making the Kama a fair price by reducing the cost of Holy Burst shard means radically reducing the price of the Khopesh. Increasing the cost of Shards of Potential to compensate would harm lesser weapons (say a +5 Holy Burst of Greater Undead Bane). And that's ignoring that very good weapons don't even need high potential. That Khopesh isn't even a +15 potential, yet I'm hard pressed to think of anything better than it.



I didn't reply to that post. The first post of yours I replied to was: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...20#post3939320

I was addressing more the favor and material requirements, as those are what were "New" in this patch.

As for the CL: your argument could apply to any and all shards in the game. Should every shard be in the 0-30 range, except shards of potential?

Well, most perhaps. The real power in most cases is the combination, not the individual effects. But the combination costs, the shards of potential, are too cheap.

And as far as the issues that you were addressing goes, it is totally understandable. I fear that I may be responsible for a derail, for which I apologize.

Really, what the devs should do, is make a bunch of specific recipes just for low level players to use. Give them low CL, a little lower ML, but strictly limit what can be made, and give them a higher per-item essense cost than the normal way. Like a +2 Shock of PG might be craftable at CL 10, with the normal ML of 6, but nothing better without getting a higher CL, and it would require maybe twice as many essences as normal. I.e., paying extra now, instead of paying to level, then paying to craft later.

Let the fully flexible system cater to endgame, but give low level players something to do with their crafting skills as they level.

BtC crafting with loosened CL and mat costs, but perhaps slightly higher ML would do the trick nicely. Gives leveling characters something as they level without flooding the AH and alts with unbalancing weapons. Though I still think that metal types should be factored in in the cost of crafting an item.

[transtemporal]

It is just sad how they are using crafting to drive sales of unwanted packs this hard.

Lol. Silver flame favor is appropriate for holy burst, just as yugo favor is appropriate for unholy burst. Its not quite a conspiracy yet pal.

[TheDearLeader]

Lol. Silver flame favor is appropriate for holy burst, just as yugo favor is appropriate for unholy burst. Its not quite a conspiracy yet pal.

Yugo Favor is for the Attack Bonus +4 Shard. There is (as of yet) no Unholy Burst in the crafting tables. There is Unholy, but it has no favor requirements.

[Monkey_Archer]

Just because someone might not find it ideal at lower levels does not mean they shouldn't be able to make it. The fact is that at level 6, ideal or not, I can run around swinging a +1 holy burst kama. But I can't craft one for another 12 levels.

It really does NOT make sense.

IMO this is a good thing.

If you're going to look at an individual shard in isolation, you can only compare it's value to other options within that scope. Holy burst is THE most power weapon prefix; there isn't a better prefix available. Just because you can stick in on a terrible weapon with no suffix doesn't change the fact that its still the most powerful prefix available. Adjusting the cost down so new/casual/low level players can make mistakes with it is what makes no sense. And, if this example is to be used as a reason why it should be cheap, then shouldn't the most powerful suffixes (greater banes, etc..) also be equally cheap? A +1 dagger of greater chaotic outsider bane is pretty terrible as well, but someone might want to make one for no apparent reason

I do understand what you're saying, but theres nothing in the crafting system so far that could be easily changed to make combination items more expensive vs individual shard items using the same materials(like the HB kama or dagger or GCOB).
Sure you could add extra material costs for weapons with metal types, or just put all the costs on shards of potential and make all regular shards cheap, but then you can still come up with equally ridiculous examples of why that isn't perfect either... Why is does my +5 superior devotion adamantine light mace or greater plant bane cost so much?!!?!?

Holy burst, greater banes, etc... are luxury items (and i think they are also being considered luxury items by the devs) and i think the costs/restrictions on these are fine.
New/casual/low level players may "want" to craft these, but there really isn't a good reason why they should. Prohibitive costs is actually doing them a favor. And, if they are really set on using a +1 holy burst kama at level 6, maybe they can find a loot gen one (Yes, lootgen still exists and isn't completely obsolete yet ) Even more hardcore/experienced/high level characters are barely going to notice the difference between holy and holy burst. You can get by just fine with a +5 holy x of regular bane. Before crafting, people were doing just fine with "inferior trash weapons" like metaline of pure good or a min2 (or even just a +1 transmuting longsword if you can think way back )