State of Crafting

[Eladrin]

To be clear, a +1 Holy Burst would give more plat than a +5 Holy Burst when deconstructed for essences? Or less plat proportionate to their normal base prices? For example, the +1 Holy Burst might give 80% of base, while the +5 Holy Burst might give 50% of base, but the higher level item still gives more plat overall.

Higher "plus" equivalent items will give more platinum than lower plus equivalent items, but will give a lower percentage of its total value.

Your analysis is correct.

[Iwinbyrollup]

How do you feel regarding the issue of leveling in crafting, specifically in relation to the new ingredients? Last I saw, the addition of special ingredients for crafting recipes seemed like it was going to make it much more difficult to level because the normal process of make shards for experience --> deconstruct shards --> repeat isn't as effective when making shards for experience requires Purified Eberron Dragonshard Fragments or other special components. If there was concern about the grind associated with leveling past 30 before, it seems like it will be compounded by this addition.

Do you consider this a potential problem with the current implementation? If not, do you have a recommended solution to working around this problem?

Will the addition of more recipes throughout in U11 be designed to fix this potential problem by providing some easier recipes?

Have you considered the suggestion (made elsewhere originally by someone other than me) to move the non-essence aspects of the recipe to the item crafting rather than the shard crafting? Say, for example, that crafting a Greater Lawful Outsider Bane SHARD required just the essences and the Siberys or Khyber fragments (forget which it requires), and then taking the crafted shard and applying it to an item blank in the bound item machine required the crafting blank, the shard, the Large Devil Scale, and the Purified Eberron Dragonshard? I can't throw the GLOB shard at Harry after all. It's pretty worthless in and of itself--it's what it's used to create that's worth a lot. This change, in particular, would take all of the stress off the leveling process that was added with 10.1 while not lowering the difficulty of leveling that was there prior to 10.1.

Thanks for the regular information and responses you've been offering so far!

[dkyle]

Disappointed to hear that. Guess no unique respires base on class or race , crafting guilds etc.

I'm very glad to hear this.

Any pressure to choose between questing well, and crafting well, will simply result in crafting bots.

[Bladedge]

Any chance the devs can go through the large list of collectables, and crafting ingredients from all the different types of "crafting" in the game and make sure they go in the ingredient bags and that they have a purpose and if not remove them from the game or stop making new ones.

[Bodic]

To be clear, a +1 Holy Burst would give more plat than a +5 Holy Burst when deconstructed for essences? Or less plat proportionate to their normal base prices? For example, the +1 Holy Burst might give 80% of base, while the +5 Holy Burst might give 50% of base, but the higher level item still gives more plat overall.

My take is higher lvl =higher essence and lower plat as there is less leftover material(we dont see) to sell.

lower lvl less essence more plat as there is more left over materials.

[Cyr]

Couple of quick comments.

Okay crafting is supposed to be for everyone, but how are you changing the system to accomplish this goal. Right now crafting really is for power gamers at end game. Twink gear (good ML for it's enhancements) gear is not very common in the system and the risia/ritual adding to ML mechanic makes the gear even less competitive for non-end game purposes. Of as much concern is the high crafting level requirments and therefor fairly large essence/time investment to make most halfway decent enhancements which makes the system almost useless to new players and fairly casual players. The plat return on the decon was a good move for these players, but the two points above really are the sticking points for these players to commit to the system and find respectable returns for their time.

Astral Diamonds are pay to win. You can phrase it however you like, but that is the simple truth as long as they are a restricting ingredient in high value recipes.

It is interesting that you said that items better then raid loot can not be constructed in the system considering that the items that you can make now that are actually good in the crafting system are on par or better then raid loot. The best demon and devil boss beaters in the game do not come from a raid now, but come from the crafting system. The +4 to hit is also raid quality in power particularly considering you can have a large guild augment slot on it also for +20 stacking hp. The goal might be for crafted items to not outclass raid items, but the vast majority of raid items are horrible. Most were horrible when they came out. If the idea here is that crafted items would not outclass good raid items based upon their ML's/enhancements then your statement makes more sense.

The change to silver flame/yugoloth crafting ingredients requirements was done very well. The change to just have the altar except more adamantine ore was a horrible, read truly poorly thought out, change. When deciding on ingredient requirements the first thing you should ask yourself is "How is this ingredient likely to be gathered by players and is this fun?" In this case the answers are...by higher level toons grinding low level instances and no that is about as boring as it gets.

Again I have to ask the central question to me. What is the intended ML difference between random loot and crafted loot? You answered crafted should be one lower before, but is that one lower then RR or one lower then non-RR.

[Iwinbyrollup]

I also want to note that the changes in the patch notes sound excellent if they work as stated. It sounds like many of the major problems with the most recent implementation have been looked into, and that is good. Especially glad to see the bugs with 100% of ingredients lost and deconstruction altar closing looked into, and also very glad to see something done about the use of +3 tomes and BTC favor rewards.

[dragons1ayer74]

...The change to silver flame/yugoloth crafting ingredients requirements was done very well. The change to just have the altar except more adamantine ore was a horrible, read truly poorly thought out, change. When deciding on ingredient requirements the first thing you should ask yourself is "How is this ingredient likely to be gathered by players and is this fun?" In this case the answers are...by higher level toons grinding low level instances and no that is about as boring as it gets.
...

I 100% agree with this why the heck not 5 ore instead of 50.

If you are going to leave the high amount in why not have alternate ways of gathering ore (other quests, npc traders, deconstruct adamantine gear)?

[Cyr]

I 100% agree with this why the heck not 5 ore instead of 50.

If you are going to leave the high amount in why not have alternate ways of gathering ore (other quests, npc traders, deconstruct adamantine gear)?

Exactly, simply having a few adamantine ore pop out in addition to other stuff when you dcon an admantine item (and coding them as ingredients) would go a huge ways towards reducing the incentive to grind grind grind away at black anvil mines with your level 20 arcane.

[QuantumFX]

Exactly, simply having a few adamantine ore pop out in addition to other stuff when you dcon an admantine item (and coding them as ingredients) would go a huge ways towards reducing the incentive to grind grind grind away at black anvil mines with your level 20 arcane.

How about adding more alternate recipes so there will be less incentive to grind grind grind away for soulstones on your level 20 arcane?

[SisAmethyst]

I don't know what I should think about using 'Medium Devil Scales' for Outsider Bane and 'Large Devil Scales' for Greater Outsider Bane Shards in conjunction with as well burning those P'urrified Eberon Shards' and those 'Special Ingredients'. This is maybe no issue for a Powergamer or someone who plays since Mod 1, that at least has more then enough Medium Scales to burn away, but for the Casual player it mean that something like a Greater Outsider Bane will be for ever out of reach. This due to the fact that you need all three of this rare ingredients, not to mention the crafting level, and if I look for example on my luck that I had not a single Large Devil Scale in at least the past 20 Shrouds then this may be a pain for some players.

Don't get me wrong, I think it is a good idea to have the previous recipes adapted as some players burned the inventory of their bank characters to reach lvl 75 and then where able to craft whatever they liked without a blink of an eye. However those Players now already have their Silver whatever weapon with a guild augment Slot already, so they probably don't care about this modification anyway

[wisdomstorment]

Since crafting came out, I've been wondering why gems aren't part of the system? Seems like the ideal avenue to give them some use and value. Either as part of certain recipies, or require a stack of gems to create shards of potential, or to bind a shard to an item, or maybe even as something to decon.

[Caine33]

+1 MadFloyd!!

Well intentioned and informative post.

Sidenote: Just did a rollout in our company and sure enough it didn't go the way we anticipated. The remarks pointed our way were less than flatterring and I thought many times of tossing said whiners out the window....

Until I realized my insurance won't cover the impending back troubles I would get from throwing said users farther than I could trust them!!

Thanks for all your efforts.

[Gratch]

[Elephant tromping rage about random crafting stuff for no reason other than to let devs know that I'm completely unhappy until holysmacking +7 Silver/Cold-iron of Greater everything bane khopeshes dangle from all my characters].

There.. now that you know I'm succinctly unhappy about crafting or dental appointments or whatever we're discussing in this thread.... [Now comes the demand].

Want Eladrin puzzle or myDDO post on some PRE or class update tidbit coming update 11. Wanna wanna wanna.

I've said the words. Gimme puzzler/information. Distract us with infoz.... from um... whatever we're currently complaining about. There's been a lot less lag sans crafting... do you really have to re-enable it?

[Gedren]

Thank you for posting this. Have had alot of questions concerning the crafting. It has been fun to craft. Looking forward to it returning. Been great to assit my lower level toons with the crafted items. Looking forward to more updates.

[Yaga_Nub]

Higher "plus" equivalent items will give more platinum than lower plus equivalent items, but will give a lower percentage of its total value.

Your analysis is correct.

How did your lawyer get you out of jail? Murder charges are a serious offense!

PS: On the whole pay to win argument that really isn't one. Stop worrying about it. You play your game and you let others play theirs. If their game is spending money well that's just the way it is. If you're truly worried about it, then go get more TP. Otherwise, it's just a different type of arms race and many of you are letting others know that you just can't keep up in that race by choice or because of a lack of resources.

[dingal]

Higher level items will produce less raw materials that can be recycled, resulting in less platinum paid to the player.

I still don't understand this.

I deconstruct a +1 acid khopesh it gives me a +1 return on ingredients and some plat back. 1-10 lessers or some such.

I deconstruct a +5 Acid Burst Khopesh it should give me a +4 or 5 return on ingredients i.e 30 or so lessers and potentially 1-6 greaters.

The way you've worded it I'm now assuming that +5 Acid Burst is going to return LESS ingredients than the +1 is.

That doesn't make sense.

[grodon9999]

I still don't understand this.

I deconstruct a +1 acid khopesh it gives me a +1 return on ingredients and some plat back. 1-10 lessers or some such.

I deconstruct a +5 Acid Burst Khopesh it should give me a +4 or 5 return on ingredients i.e 30 or so lessers and potentially 1-6 greaters.

The way you've worded it I'm now assuming that +5 Acid Burst is going to return LESS ingredients than the +1 is.

That doesn't make sense.

It's just so new players can still make some cash while deconstructing stuff.

[dingal]

It's just so new players can still make some cash while deconstructing stuff.

I understand the plat return part, that makes sense to me. The way it's worded implies the items will return less everything at higher levels.

If it's just plat, cool beans.

[Kalari]

I have to say I am curious to how this is going to play out I have my fears about deconstructing now and the returns but i'll wait till tomorrow when I have time to sit down and test things before making any judgements if I like it I'll praise it on the next show If I hate it ohh boy will I have a mega rant for the next show