FvS Evoker - Rate and Review

[TheHolyDarkness]

Bah. Bored. Late at night. Decided to draft a HElf Favored Soul Evoker, with emphasis on nukage and sorc dilly for access to Arcane Scrolls (pssh, not much interested in wings unless I can combine them with shadowwalk). I probably don't have a bad idea of what to do with this thing, but I may as well ask for constructive feedback.

This will be my 7th Character. No need to talk to me like I haven't heard of that con isn't a dumpstat, that fortification is kinda sorta (very) important, that I can't tell a DC from an SR Check, or that as a FvS, maybe I should (gasp) actually carry some heal spells while leveling. :P

For what I do know however, I know I shouldn't presume to understand the nuances of this class after a single draft. Hence why we're here.

Rate and Review.

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Flavored of the Chosen Fates
Level 20 True Neutral Half-Elf Female
(20 Favored Soul) 
Hit Points: 332
Spell Points: 1951 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 12
Will: 21

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength              8                     8
Dexterity             8                    10
Constitution         16                    18
Intelligence          8                    10
Wisdom               18                    28
Charisma             14                    18

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 6
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 6
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 6
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 6
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance              -1                     0
Bluff                 2                     4
Concentration         7                    27
Diplomacy             2                     6
Disable Device       n/a                    n/a
Haggle                2                     4
Heal                  4                    11
Hide                 -1                     0
Intimidate            2                     4
Jump                 -1                    13
Listen                4                     9
Move Silently        -1                     0
Open Lock            n/a                    n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                     0
Search               -1                     0
Spot                  4                     9
Swim                 -1                    -1
Tumble               n/a                    n/a
Use Magic Device      n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Diety) Favored by the Sovereign Host
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Sorcerer
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Favored Soul)


Level 3 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 4 (Favored Soul)


Level 5 (Favored Soul)


Level 6 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Evocation


Level 7 (Favored Soul)


Level 8 (Favored Soul)


Level 9 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Evocation


Level 10 (Favored Soul)


Level 11 (Favored Soul)


Level 12 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell


Level 13 (Favored Soul)


Level 14 (Favored Soul)


Level 15 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 16 (Favored Soul)


Level 17 (Favored Soul)


Level 18 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell


Level 19 (Favored Soul)


Level 20 (Favored Soul)
Enhancement: Favored Soul Ascendency: Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Favored Soul Angel of Vengeance I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Angel of Vengeance II
Enhancement: Improved Sorcerer Dilettante I
Enhancement: Improved Sorcerer Dilettante II
Enhancement: Improved Sorcerer Dilettante III
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Wisdom I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Smiting I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Smiting II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Smiting III
Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Life II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Incredible Smiting I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Incredible Smiting II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Incredible Smiting III
Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Incredible Life II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Smiting I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Smiting II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Smiting III
Enhancement: Favored Soul Smiting IV
Enhancement: Favored Soul Life Magic I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Life Magic II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Life Magic III
Enhancement: Favored Soul Energy of the Scion I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Energy of the Scion II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Energy of the Scion III
Enhancement: Favored Soul Wisdom I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Wisdom II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness III
Enhancement: Favored Soul Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Wand and Scroll Mastery II

~~
Construction Notes
~~~~~~~~~~~~

At first I was building this thing for more int. The premise was to UMD scrolls while using the pally dilly for saves. Eventually I concluded that was probably too much work to do if I didn't plan on outright splashing rogue and making it a class skill. So I just said screw the pally dilly saves and went sorc for my UMD needs. I presume Holy Aura + GH + blah blah blah will compensate anyway.

Because for this build, splashing is definitely a no. A big no no for my needs in fact. I want this thing pure and efficient. No evasion? I don't care. I've been dealing with too many multiclass toons lately. It'd be refreshing to make something pure for once.

Anyway, as to my concerns...

1) Among the doubts I have is tinking around with odd attribute points at startup. **** human adaptability considerations. Even con or odd con (17 con + ehanc)? Even cha or odd cha (13 cha + ehanc)? Indecisive humies, always making it complicated.

2) Then again, I'm sorta pondering if I can't snatch up easy +1 exceptional from all this new content anyway to make odd attributes a moot point. Meh. Then again, I'm not even begun to truly think about gear just yet. Must balance functionality with time investment afterall. Please, refrain from giving me a list of 5 greensteels, 10 different ToD Sets, and 20 epic items. Tell me that Greensteel pattern "Alpha" is good for me and I'll see if I can't go fetch. Tell me I need an Epic House P item and I'll be like, w/e. Tell me I must be certain to acquire an Epic Ring of Spell Storing + Epic SoS on this toon or it'll always be ultra gimporz and I'll...not be happy.

Like any character, I figure I'll mostly wing it when I get that far, but its good to have a general sense of direction.

3) One of my main nagging questions is the same that I have with every new caster I create: Is having both Empower AND Maximize worth it? Or should I just stick to one or the other? Again, I face this conundrum. I prefer being efficient in my nukage rather than lulzing at a single huge overkill number that wasted SP.

I tried Max+ Empower on my sorc and cleric before. Both times I ended up dropping Empower. Yet like reconnecting with an ex, I can't help but wonder if THIS time it'll be different (pssh), or if I'm only going to end up feat swapping it out yet again (for what...dunno). Yet I couldn't help but notice that in the case of FvS, efficient meta enhancements are explicitly for Empower.

Again, now my brain enters a confused loop as to what meta feat selection is most efficient here. Input certainly welcome.

4) While we're at it, I lightly ponder whether or not spell pen would be necessary. I'm here to heal and kill, not CC. If I wanted to CC, I have other toons for that already. Not to mention my bias for Cometfall over Greater Command. So I figure...bleh. Nah, Spell Pen is probably wasted space. Yet its worth confirming whether or not I'm truly avoiding folly by forsaking SR as a FvS.

5) Last but not least, Sovereign Host? Undying Court? Free CLW, or free Searing Light? Hmm...not sure. Someone with experience help sell me on one or the other.
~~~~~~

So in conclusion, I may as well restate my goals with this thing. You see, after recently creating a successful melee-oriented battle cleric, I'm really aiming to go for something that sits in the back and spams spells with satisfying effect. For all the experience at healing I already hold, I may as well be at a complete loss on what Divine Nukage is really about (beyond DP and BB), given the compulsion of my prevalent healer to just walk on up to something and punch it. With nary a single point in clerical smiting, something tells me that I fail to truly appreciate divine offensive casting. My FvS is meant to change that.

I doubt she'll be as powerful a healer as my cleric. She won't threaten my sorcs domain over total nukage dominance by any means. Nonetheless I'm hoping this build is solid? So why am I so antsy about it? Why do I feel like something's missing? -.-

Anyway, thanks for the feedback.
~TheHolyDarkness Out~

[insaneuou]

1. Maximize is enough for this build in general but I did find usefullness of max+emp in amarath and epics on my evoker . So its your choice.
2.Spell penetration will be decent, but not expected to nuke at higher difficulty levels. That is without the feat.
3.I personally feel clw as capstone is a better choice since u got AOV 2( The archon helps )

some other things i suggest:
1. Craft a sup brilliance V clickie
2. Get ready to handle the aggro, this is a big time aggro drawing build
3. I would prefer quicken to be taken at 12 rather than 15. 12ih is when u do sands and GH, esp in GH mobs hit pretty hard quicken helps.

[voodoogroves]

12 is when you start doing the DQ raid too; and quicken is pretty darn useful there.

I like maximize + empower on any spell DPS build. I would only not take both if I were focusing more on CC / saves.

I'd also consider dropping 2 CON to put those points in a few other places. I like STR to make sure I'm not enfeebled to useless too quickly (and I like INT for UMD, but you've got that covered in your dilettante)

[TheHolyDarkness]

Upon further consideration, you are probably right. I likely do not need heighten until level 15, as at level 12, my BB and/or comet fall is already at a prime DC.

But speaking of feats...crud. Forgot about these extra energy resists things. Oh yeah. That DR thing too. What do people generally take? Beyond taking fire at level 5 I'm like: ???


~TheHolyDarkness Out~

[insaneuou]

Upon further consideration, you are probably right. I likely do not need heighten until level 15, as at level 12, my BB and/or comet fall is already at a prime DC.

But speaking of feats...crud. Forgot about these extra energy resists things. Oh yeah. That DR thing too. What do people generally take? Beyond taking fire at level 5 I'm like: ???


~TheHolyDarkness Out~

I prefer fire, elec and acid.

[Illiain]

5) Last but not least, Sovereign Host? Undying Court? Free CLW, or free Searing Light? Hmm...not sure. Someone with experience help sell me on one or the other.

Undying Court gets Command Undead as their capstone, not Searing Light, that's Silver Flame.

Undying Court's biggest advantage is the the bonus attack/damage for a good weapon on a Dex race. Also the racial enhancements combine with the class feats. This mixes well for a TWF melee build.

[SpearKicker]

I find empower+maximize worth it. Never turn it off at cap with my human Evoker. Only metamagic that remais off, usually, is quicken. Just turnit on to heal raids, or in final fights when I have plenty of sp. My bb are doing more than 300 points of damage with max+emp and a superior potency item.

About capstone, first I went to cure lights cap. Than I though, when I would use that? Could just see me using it in non combat situations, cause I could not relly on it to save someone (or myself ) during combats. Not worth for me, so I respec my evoker to searing lights cap. Really like the change. Nice to fave a 100+ damage free spell. Not counting the criticals (that can reach surprizingly high!). Going that way, I've picked all enhancements to boost light/good spells. Of course it should work diferent with others, depending on playstyle.

Hope it helps.

PS.: Really love that the anchor rays pass through walls! I just hide from beholders (when sp starved) behind walls and wait it to die... hehehe

EDIT: Forgot to say that, I started at 12 STR (+2 tome at 7th) and could melee preaty well prior to BB. Just crafted the best mithral full plate and large shield I could use each lvl (including natural armor and that effect that gives ac to neutral character - i cant remember its name now... >D). I really didt feel that dificulty people usually says that evoker fvs have prior to bb. Was able to solo every quest I like to do without much difficulty...

EDIT2: Forgot to mention. CON is not a dump stat! ;P

[TheHolyDarkness]

Undying Court gets Command Undead as their capstone, not Searing Light, that's Silver Flame.

Ah. Welp, is it worth going the Silver Flame route for that extra offensive SLA, or best to just leave it alone.

The sorc in me relates to just casting a cheap SLA when I have nothing better to do.

But the cleric in me relates to cheaply topping people off when I have nothing better to do.

Yet I can't tell if how either of those capstones will be useful in practice once capped.

EDIT: Always liked Unyield for removing death penalty, but upon second look, what about this Silver Flame Exorcism thing? Work in Amrath? Does it sting a lot between its undoubtedly long cooldown? How about that Epic Abiashi?

~TheHolyDarkness Out~

[SpearKicker]

Never used the Silver Flame Exorcism. I choose the silver flame path for the searing light. I thing the Unyield enhancement is really better, but both have really long cooldowns. Cause of that, for me they are only small bonus... Would not pick them if not necessary.

[mute_mayhem]

Never used the Silver Flame Exorcism. I choose the silver flame path for the searing light. I thing the Unyield enhancement is really better, but both have really long cooldowns. Cause of that, for me they are only small bonus... Would not pick them if not necessary.

Unfortunately they are required for AoV II, that said, I have attempted to use Exorcism, but I've never seen it successfully kill/banish anything. Unyielding is great for situations where a tank dies and needs to get aggro back as quickly as possible, removing their death penalty helps a great deal.

Personally, I prefer the cure light capstone, there have been too many raids where I haven't had to use a single spell point healing the tank...Less spell points spent healing = More spell points to nuke with

[Morosy]

But speaking of feats...crud. Forgot about these extra energy resists things. Oh yeah. That DR thing too. What do people generally take? Beyond taking fire at level 5 I'm like: ???


~TheHolyDarkness Out~

Well there are some who pick the resists to match up with the largest types of damage you'll be taking, like fire, cold, and electric. On the other hand, some like to use the resists to cover things that come in small quantities so you really don't have to ever cast that particular resist (Acid for Melfs/Burning Blood, Fire for burning blood, and Sonic for Orthon repeaters). I usually go the Fire/Cold/Electric route, but you might like not having to cast sonic when there's orthons around, or not having to cast acid when there's melf's going around.

Unfortunately they are required for AoV II, that said, I have attempted to use Exorcism, but I've never seen it successfully kill/banish anything.

Well it's based off charisma. If it never lands for you then that means that's a good thing because hopefully it means you aren't one of those 40 cha favored souls with no melee or DC's to speak of

[Darkrok]

Once you get a +5 or +6 charisma skills greensteel item you'll be just fine using UMD for things like fire shield scrolls, teleport, etc. I had no problems there on my human evoker. 11 skill + 7 charisma + 4 GH + 3 Persuasion item + 5 greensteel + 2 Luck Bonus = 32 UMD. That's 85% on teleport and no-fail on fire shield scrolls.

That said, if Shadow Walk is really important to you you may want to go with the Sorc dilly. That's 65% on shadow walk which, while not terrible, could get annoying. I don't know if I could pass up a +5 to all saves though to no-fail shadow walk.

[Darkrok]

Personally, I prefer the cure light capstone, there have been too many raids where I haven't had to use a single spell point healing the tank...Less spell points spent healing = More spell points to nuke with

This. Sov Host capstone is outstanding if you've got at least Max + Emp (which as an evoker you'd better have ).

[Premier]

Maximize and Empower for sure, once you start seeing what spell damage you can do with blades and cometfall at lvl 20 you'll be thoroughly satisifed.

For leveling, pick up the Elf Crafted medium armor, it's lvl 10 +3 Mithral with Arcane Lore (6%) to help with heals and boost your spell damage. I also vote for the free Cure Light Wounds, it's really nice to top off melee's for free. Free searing light comes from my Archon.

I also agree with bumping str so you don't get burdened often.

10 CHA is enough for casting, there is not enough return by investing anything more. Although you'll have to wear a CHA item your entire character life, which can be a pain at low lvls:

10 base
2 Tome
6 item
2 capstone
------
20 CHA

Good luck.

-Premier

[SpearKicker]

For leveling, pick up the Elf Crafted medium armor, it's lvl 10 +3 Mithral with Arcane Lore (6%) to help with heals and boost your spell damage. I also vote for the free Cure Light Wounds, it's really nice to top off melee's for free. Free searing light comes from my Archon.

I used Mithral full plate until had the lvl to use Elf Crafted. But I went Elf Crafted Robe, for the +1 evocation (not sure, but I thin the armor version doesnt have it).

About the capstone: I chose searing lights because as an evoker, I prefer more offensive. Never went on any situation where I miss a free cure light, but missed the free searing lights in the new quest chain (at twelve) to kill that anoying flying eyes... Again, I feel thats about personal preferenses. I prefer to attack, others to heal... Some situations will call for fre light damage, others for heal. Just as extra information (since it seems I am alone at silver flame cap... ), the Archor searing light is really good, but does about 2-3 times less dmg than the cap searing lights.

mute_mayhem,

Didnt know that the Unyielding take away death penalties. Thats really nice to know, thanks! Even though, this abilities have a so long cool down that I think they are not reliable, except in specifit situations as you stated, when it can make some diference...

[Illiain]

(pssh, not much interested in wings unless I can combine them with shadowwalk).

Oh and on an off topic, I know my Bard can cast self buffs without coming out of Shadowwalk. I think it needs to be a single target self cast effect to maintain SW. So there's no reason Wings should break SW.

I'll see if I can pop a scroll and combine the two, my FvS has UMD, and test it out.

Edit: Yes, you can use Wings without breaking Shadowwalk.

[TheHolyDarkness]

Maximize and Empower for sure, once you start seeing what spell damage you can do with blades and cometfall at lvl 20 you'll be thoroughly satisifed.

For leveling, pick up the Elf Crafted medium armor, it's lvl 10 +3 Mithral with Arcane Lore (6%) to help with heals and boost your spell damage. I also vote for the free Cure Light Wounds, it's really nice to top off melee's for free. Free searing light comes from my Archon.

I also agree with bumping str so you don't get burdened often.

10 CHA is enough for casting, there is not enough return by investing anything more. Although you'll have to wear a CHA item your entire character life, which can be a pain at low lvls:

10 base
2 Tome
6 item
2 capstone
------
20 CHA

Good luck.

-Premier

Ah. But therein lies a conflict. The prerequisite for Half Elf Dilletante: Sorc is that you must hold a base cha of at least 13. And I really want my Shadow Walk, Teleport, Mass Invis, and GH scrolls. ^_^

*Now then, if it were possible to simply go with a base cha of 11, eat a +2 tome, and feat swap it later, I would find that interesting. But I'm uncertain whether Freddy would permit such a scheme.*

^--Can any Helf Experts confirm whether this is a viable option?

~~~~

Ok. Ok. Get Empower as I'm constantly told. Fine. But I'll be sure to make it the last feat I ever get, once my SP Pool is large enough (grumble grumble).

As for str, I don't know...I might want to end up doing what my sorc did: Eat a +2 Str Tome, and fit +6 str item in there somehow. That's why I'm understating the str stat at roll up in case your wondering.

8 Base + 2 Tome + 6 Item = 16 + 2 Ship Buff + 2 Rage = 20 str. My sorc never seems burdened. Can't imagine why my FvS, whom I'm designing as the Divine Alternative to my sorc, should be burdened as well.

~~~~~

Elf-Crafted Armor? Wow I never would've foreseen that gear possibility for myself. With my resources, I could acquire the relics easily enough. Thanks. These are the twink gear suggestions I'm really asking for.

A main of mine recently got his hands on Beleshyra's Scepter (Good Version) as well. Makes me ponder if there are potential keepers within the newfangled U9 and U10 loot tables.

As for greensteel, though I loathe to think about it at this time, the fact remains that this will be character #7. Ergo, I suppose I have zero excuse for not being able to dig up a stash of resources for it. If there are some suggestions on that regard, feel free to hit me. I figure the cloak and goggles are the typical targets, but haven't really begun to start working in details.

I'm truly enjoying the peer review thus far. Thank you.

~TheHolyDarkness Out~

[Premier]

Ah. But therein lies a conflict. The prerequisite for Half Elf Dilletante: Sorc is that you must hold a base cha of at least 13. And I really want my Shadow Walk, Teleport, Mass Invis, and GH scrolls. ^_^

*Now then, if it were possible to simply go with a base cha of 11, eat a +2 tome, and feat swap it later, I would find that interesting. But I'm uncertain whether Freddy would permit such a scheme.*

^--Can any Helf Experts confirm whether this is a viable option?

Alrighty, 13 CHA it is then! I missed that part. I bet Fred won't know the difference though I have not tried it.

I invested in UMD and I teleport all over the place. I also keep displacement and fire shield scrolls. That's really all I need, if you want more than that then that's your preferance. You have a solid idea of what you want, you're just adding your own flavor and that's great. Once you start seeing the damage you can crank out you'll enjoy this build.

For Greensteel, if you can't afford to grind out double shard, 6 lg scale items then don't. Make a +3 exceptional wisdom scepter that costs 2-3 lg scales for your DC's. I would recommend making a Con Opp spell point goggles as your only essential double shard item. Just because it handles Wisdom +6 and spell points in a place that won't be removed for a better item.

When lvling my Tr'ed FvS I went Neutral and wore Mithral FP of Stability for a bonus to saves and AC. I haven't tried crafting but if you can craft some armor with stability or greater stability then make that (only if you go Neutral, which I'd recommend, but it's up to you).

[TDarkchylde]

Ah. But therein lies a conflict. The prerequisite for Half Elf Dilletante: Sorc is that you must hold a base cha of at least 13. And I really want my Shadow Walk, Teleport, Mass Invis, and GH scrolls. ^_^

*Now then, if it were possible to simply go with a base cha of 11, eat a +2 tome, and feat swap it later, I would find that interesting. But I'm uncertain whether Freddy would permit such a scheme.*

^--Can any Helf Experts confirm whether this is a viable option?

It does indeed work. I have a healing amp Helf Barb with the Monk Dilettante. Started with 12 WIS, ate a +1 WIS tome at Level 4, was able to swap into Monk Dil with no problems. You shouldn't have any problem starting with less than 13 CHA, using a tome to make up the difference, then swapping to Sorc Dil.

[mute_mayhem]

Alrighty, 13 CHA it is then! I missed that part. I bet Fred won't know the difference though I have not tried it.

I invested in UMD and I teleport all over the place. I also keep displacement and fire shield scrolls. That's really all I need, if you want more than that then that's your preferance. You have a solid idea of what you want, you're just adding your own flavor and that's great. Once you start seeing the damage you can crank out you'll enjoy this build.

For Greensteel, if you can't afford to grind out double shard, 6 lg scale items then don't. Make a +3 exceptional wisdom scepter that costs 2-3 lg scales for your DC's. I would recommend making a Con Opp spell point goggles as your only essential double shard item. Just because it handles Wisdom +6 and spell points in a place that won't be removed for a better item.

When lvling my Tr'ed FvS I went Neutral and wore Mithral FP of Stability for a bonus to saves and AC. I haven't tried crafting but if you can craft some armor with stability or greater stability then make that (only if you go Neutral, which I'd recommend, but it's up to you).

I disagree on the greensteel choices you recommend. Conc Opp with either hp or sp is absolutely essential, as you say, but a +3 exceptional Wis weapon will be worthless/a waste of larges when you get ToD rings.