Advice on respeccing Half Orc FvS Melee Focused Character

[MrTops]

I have a melee focused HOrc 16 FvS / 1 Fgtr that I plan to lesser reincarnate to drop the fighter level when I hit level 18 and get the last feat.

The eventual goal is a FvS that can heal OK as well as provide a useful level of DPS when the situation allows.

I took the fighter level at 4 (veteran build) to get the weapon proficiencies but figure the DR capstone is too good to pass up.

I love the build so far and have been able to solo everything up to the Vale with not much problem when I haven't been able to find or fill a group.

Currently my stats are (32 point build):

STR 32 (18 base + 4 level + 2 tome + 2 enhance + 6 Item)
DEX 22 (14 base + 2 tome + 6 Item)
CON 22 (14 base + 2 tome + 6 Item)
INT 12 (10 base + 2 tome)
WIS 18 (8 base + 2 tome + 2 enhance + 6 Item)
CHA 22 (12 base + 2 tome + 2 enhance + 6 Item)

Now, I was wondering if I should focus a bit more on spell DC's? If I rebuilt as follows I'd get a Blade Barrier DC of 29, which doesn't really seem worth dropping strength for.

STR 28 (18 base + 2 tome + 2 enhance + 6 Item)
DEX 20 (12 base + 2 tome + 6 Item)
CON 22 (14 base + 2 tome + 6 Item)
INT 12 (10 base + 2 tome)
WIS 28 (14 base + 4 level + 2 tome + 2 enhance + 6 Item)
CHA 18 (8 base + 2 tome + 2 enhance + 6 Item)

10
6 Level
9 Wis
2 Greater Evo Focus Item
2 AoV PrE
---
29 Blade Barrier DC

If I don't go with upping DC then would it be worth dropping some DEX and CHA to up my CON?

STR 32 (18 base + 4 level + 2 tome + 2 enhance + 6 Item)
DEX 20 (12 base + 2 tome + 6 Item)
CON 24 (16 base + 2 tome + 6 Item)
INT 12 (10 base + 2 tome)
WIS 18 (8 base + 2 tome + 2 enhance + 6 Item)
CHA 20 (10 base + 2 tome + 2 enhance + 6 Item)

I currently have a massive two handed AC of 34

I can't see myself improving this a great deal so it appears that I'd be better off just ditching AC and doing what I can to up hit points.

Projections for level 20 (based on the above stats):

180 base
22 toughness
120 CON
40 superior false life (Cavalry Plate)
45 G/S
60 toughness enhancements
20 Minos
---
487 hit points

I'm planning to put the G/S hp item in the cloak slot (currently have a +5 deflection cloak). I could make it a dual shard +5 deflection/fort/hp cloak but it seems a waste of ingredients if I'm dumping AC?

Would it be worth putting the level ups into CON instead of STR for +40 hp and -2 to hit and damage?

The feat selection I currently have planned is:

Toughness
Power Attack
Improved Critical: Slashing
Weapons Proficiency: Falcion
Empower Healing
Maximize

I'd like to squeeze Extend in for Divine Power and Divine Favor but they won't fit with Falchion and Improved Critical.

My other option is to throw away the Vampric Cleaver and the DR breakers I've assembled and start over with Quarterstaves

Either that or keep the fighter level and lose the DR 10?

So, grateful for any advice.

[tgu]

Either that or keep the fighter level and lose the DR 10?

So, grateful for any advice.

I have like the only Half-Orc FvS build out there...http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=298516

Basically, it's bad. You really got three options here:

-TWF Human = decent damage, one more feat
-WF = better all-around melee, no reason to multi-class, get greatswords free, can get 15 DR
-Cleric = Battleclerics can multi-class and you can keep your Half-Orc

Half-Orc requires THF, and WF get (through enhancements) Great swords with +dmg, +hit...so they match damage, and their survival HO can't match...it's not good when Half-Orc can't even have a damage advantage! I'd almost go far enough to say I'd take a HUMAN THF FvS > Half-Orc THF.

Brutal advice? Get to 20, get your gear, and TR. Don't mess around with a LR


Edit: THE DAMAGE ADVICE WAS INCORRECT, see my other post for further details.

[MrTops]

Brutal advice? Get to 20, get your gear, and TR. Don't mess around with a LR

Well, not really advice on respeccing, but your entitled to your opinion

I'm not sure about your notion that the Half Orc doesn't have a damage advantage?

Starting STR can be 2 better and there's the +2 racial enhancment bonus. Also Orcish Melee Damage II is +4 to damage.

So that works out at at +2 to hit and +6 to damage.

As far as I can tell Follower of the Lord or Blades gives:

Favored: Weapon Proficiency
Child: +1 to hit
Beloved: +2 to damage

OK, they're one feat better off, which is significant but I'd like to know what am I missing that makes the Warforged FvS do more damage?

[voodoogroves]

I'd got with the following feats:

Toughness
Power Attack
Empower
Maximize
Quicken
Weapon Proficiency
* Improved Critical

Get a Torc. Extend is nice but not mandatory. Empower/Maximize will amp your spell DPS too and mass cures (not heal/mass heal).

If you want a swap feat, I'd look at Improved Critical as a swap if you plan on building a Min2.

Another alternative is to drop Toughness. It may not seem logical, but a FVS can get a pretty decent stack of HP anyway.

[AtomicMew]

Toughness
Power Attack
Improved Critical: Slashing
Weapons Proficiency: Falcion
Empower Healing
Maximize

Toughness
Power Attack
Improved Critical: Slashing
Weapons Proficiency: Falcion
Empower
Maximize
Quicken

Dump wisdom, max out strength. Take the searing light capstone or the CLW capstone. It's a bit of a toss up, but you don't have space to fit in empower healing, so I think i'd prefer searing light.

Don't bother with extend. The SP savings are marginal and it's pretty much useless as long as you remember to refresh your buffs.

[tgu]

Well, not really advice on respeccing, but your entitled to your opinion

I'm not sure about your notion that the Half Orc doesn't have a damage advantage?

I wasn't fully correct, and I was a bit misleading. My apologies. Half-Orc will oust any THF race in game, but with FvS WF get so many advantages that it offsets the damage they get, and thus makes WF a better melee FvS. I'll break it down very clear for you.


Half-Orc:
(don't count fury as it requires less than 50% HP)
+2 str = 1.5 dmg as THF
+4 THF
+3 Improved Power attack

= 8.5 dmg, -2 to hit (+1 from 2 str, -3 PA)

Warforged:

+3 Imp. Power attack
+2 FvS Lord of the Blades

= 5 dmg, -2 hot (+1 Lord, -3 PA)

"Well Tgu, that says Half-Orc are 3.5 damage ahead"

WF ALSO get:

Greatswords free (frees up one feat, one that you NEED)
WF Immunities
More DR (10 vs 12/15)
More HP (6 con more x8 = 48 + 20 racial (can take up to 40) = 68, max 88)


3.5 damage compared to what WF get is not fair, WF come out ahead. This is not an opinion, but fact. 3.5 damage is made up in one feat alone.

THF Human
THF WF
Evoker Caster

Either rate, I stick by my advice. Hit max level, get your gear, and TR to one of those three builds for better play.

[JDCrowell]

I wasn't fully correct, and I was a bit misleading. My apologies. Half-Orc will oust any THF race in game, but with FvS WF get so many advantages that it offsets the damage they get, and thus makes WF a better melee FvS. I'll break it down very clear for you.


Half-Orc:
(don't count fury as it requires less than 50% HP)
+2 str = 1.5 dmg as THF
+4 THF
+3 Improved Power attack

= 8.5 dmg, -2 to hit (+1 from 2 str, -3 PA)

Warforged:

+3 Imp. Power attack
+2 FvS Lord of the Blades

= 5 dmg, -2 hot (+1 Lord, -3 PA)

"Well Tgu, that says Half-Orc are 3.5 damage ahead"

WF ALSO get:

Greatswords free (frees up one feat, one that you NEED)
WF Immunities
More DR (10 vs 12/15)
More HP (6 con more x8 = 48 + 20 racial (can take up to 40) = 68, max 88)


3.5 damage compared to what WF get is not fair, WF come out ahead. This is not an opinion, but fact. 3.5 damage is made up in one feat alone.

THF Human
THF WF
Evoker Caster

Either rate, I stick by my advice. Hit max level, get your gear, and TR to one of those three builds for better play.

Uhm....we also seem to be forgetting the 2 tiers of Greatsword Specialization which gives another +2 to damage..

Don't think I saw that in there anywhere...just saying.

[LordPiglet]

Another alternative is to drop Toughness. It may not seem logical, but a FVS can get a pretty decent stack of HP anyway.

Dropping toughness would mean the loss of 82 hp for a build that hits only 487

-22 toughness
-40 FvS toughness I-IV
-20 racial toughness I-II

Dump wisdom, then dex as necessary. You need a 10 staring int and a 19 charisma (22 is what I get in my WF).

Your 10dr >>>>> 34ish ac

[MrTops]

I'm not here to argue whether Warforged FvS is better than HOrc FvS.


So thanks to Atomic and Voodoo for some useful advice.

I can see that Empower has more utility than Empower Healing and the extra 5 sp isn't much.

Also with the Searing Light Capstone. Is that affected meta magics as well?

I have the larges for a min2 Falchion so I may drop improved critical and deal with the lower critical range on any other special circumstance weapons I have.


tgu

'More HP (6 con more x8 = 48 + 20 racial (can take up to 40) = 68, max 88)'

Where does the 6 CON more come from? You get 2 extra base + 2 racial enhancements which means and extra 40 points at level 20. You do get two more tiers of toughness so that could work out to an extra 60 overall.

You also only self heal half as well unless you spend 12 AP to heal yourself 80% as well. You can group with arcanes for healing but that's not 'self healing'.

The immunities are good, but spells and items can cover most of them.

DR 15 is better than DR 10. But HOrc has a greater choice of armor. The Cavalry Plate is Superior False Life, +5 Resistance, Demonic Shield and augment crystal in one slot, for example.

I'm not saying Warforged FvS isn't better than HOrc FvS, but I don't see that HOrc is automatically gimped in comparison.


JDCrowell

'Uhm....we also seem to be forgetting the 2 tiers of Greatsword Specialization which gives another +2 to damage..'

Not sure what you mean here. What is the Greatsword Specialization? I cant seem to find it in the enhancement list for Warforged on the wikki?

[MrTops]

Dropping toughness would mean the loss of 82 hp for a build that hits only 487

-22 toughness
-40 FvS toughness I-IV
-20 racial toughness I-II

Dump wisdom, then dex as necessary. You need a 10 staring int and a 19 charisma (22 is what I get in my WF).

Your 10dr >>>>> 34ish ac

Yeah. Everything else I read says max your hp. Min 400 for Shroud and up to 500 for other later raids if you're hitting the boss.

And I won't get even close to 60 AC so it looks like I ought to just abandon it.

About the 10DR, do many mobs use silver or cold iron weapons?

[voodoogroves]

FVS Greatsword enhancements available at 15 and 18; +1 damage each. I think the class feats give +1 hit, +2 damage so that's +1 hit +4 damage.

I've got several FVS; they each have their own strengths (pure 20 and 18/2 splits). All of them are a blast to play.

[Illiain]

Seems like a lot of people either don't know or forget about the favored weapon specialization enhancements. I blame the majority of FvS builds either being Evoker builds with the new PrE or are complete nannybots.

It's why Undying Court makes good TWF'ers, their class/racial bonuses hit +3 to hit and +6 damage.

[tgu]

tgu
'More HP (6 con more x8 = 48 + 20 racial (can take up to 40) = 68, max 88)'

Where does the 6 CON more come from? You get 2 extra base + 2 racial enhancements which means and extra 40 points at level 20. You do get two more tiers of toughness so that could work out to an extra 60 overall.

You also only self heal half as well unless you spend 12 AP to heal yourself 80% as well. You can group with arcanes for healing but that's not 'self healing'.

The immunities are good, but spells and items can cover most of them.

DR 15 is better than DR 10. But HOrc has a greater choice of armor. The Cavalry Plate is Superior False Life, +5 Resistance, Demonic Shield and augment crystal in one slot, for example.

I'm not saying Warforged FvS isn't better than HOrc FvS, but I don't see that HOrc is automatically gimped in comparison.

I did forget the +2 dmg WF get with greatswords, that means Half-Orc only get +1.5, and WF still have all the advantages.

How did I get +6 CON? That was assuming you had a 14 base. If you went with a 16 base CON, it would be only 4 more CON, but aren't you seeing the overall view?

WF will get roughly 60ish more HP, immunities WF get are FREE, they will get an extra feat, and DR still matters. Don't forget that with all the improved meta magic feats and devotion, it's not hard to heal these days. It matters more that people are using their heals properly, being quick to react, and using all clickies to conserve spell points longer. I don't see many people say "oh, don't make a WF...they heal for 400 instead of 450". Raw numbers don't matter *that* much.

You may have confused my intentions, but right NOW WF is better all-around. Enjoy the Half-Orc all you want, but WF are the top dog right now (for FvS). At the end of the day, you brought forth a build I have already tried...and I stick to my guns. WF > Half-Orc. I wouldn't recommend it.

If you want Half-Orc, the other divine class is calling (shouting at times) for you to come over to the other side. Battle Clerics are very high damage, add in top rank Divine Might you will being outputting a lot of damage.

[MrTops]

FVS Greatsword enhancements available at 15 and 18; +1 damage each. I think the class feats give +1 hit, +2 damage so that's +1 hit +4 damage.

I've got several FVS; they each have their own strengths (pure 20 and 18/2 splits). All of them are a blast to play.

Went back to the wiki and it does list the weapons enhancements, one for each faith line. I was looking under Warforged rather than FvS.

Anyway, I have a plan:

Build the MinII Falchion

Drop Fighter level at 18

Take these feats:

Toughness
Power Attack
Weapons Proficiency: Falcion
Empower
Maximize
Quicken
*And something else

Go with the Silver Flame for the Searing Light capstone. 5d4+20 for free seems OK. Is the cool down the same 3 seconds and is it a separate cool down to the spell?

Will either Dump some DEX and CHA to up CON 2 or dump more DEX and CHA and up STR 2 (a choice between 20 more hp or another +1 to hit).

Thanks All

[tgu]

Went back to the wiki and it does list the weapons enhancements, one for each faith line. I was looking under Warforged rather than FvS.

Anyway, I have a plan:

Build the MinII Falchion

Drop Fighter level at 18

Take these feats:

Toughness
Power Attack
Weapons Proficiency: Falcion
Empower
Maximize
Quicken
*And something else

Go with the Silver Flame for the Searing Light capstone. 5d4+20 for free seems OK. Is the cool down the same 3 seconds and is it a separate cool down to the spell?

Will either Dump some DEX and CHA to up CON 2 or dump more DEX and CHA and up STR 2 (a choice between 20 more hp or another +1 to hit).

Thanks All

I see you are still being stubborn about it.

I'd say Falcion Min 2 would be nice, and if you ever get a ESoS then switch it out.

As far as capstone, it really is down to your choice. A nice single target nuke for free, or Sov. Host free heal. Really comes down to what your mainly doing.

I'd say having a high DEX only benefits you at low level, and towards end game you'll want that extra +2 CON. Charisma is dump worthy too though. If only you could have a decent Wisdom :P

[JDCrowell]

Seems like a lot of people either don't know or forget about the favored weapon specialization enhancements. I blame the majority of FvS builds either being Evoker builds with the new PrE or are complete nannybots.

It's why Undying Court makes good TWF'ers, their class/racial bonuses hit +3 to hit and +6 damage.

You're welcome for pointing that out in post #7 lol

I have to second that the overall best melee fvs is WF ...hands down. I can tank Sully while self healing and curing my own curses and maintain threat during those times. The 15 DR I get with mine is highly valuable and makes me the last man standing when s*** hits the fan.

[AtomicMew]

I'd say Falcion Min 2 would be nice, and if you ever get a ESoS then switch it out.

Don't even bother with ESoS, imo. On a FvS, you don't even really have the damage bonus to take advantage of the high crit profile. The only reason lots of FvS take SoS is because of free WF proficiency. Falchions are a better choice. Xuum is almost as good as SoS, better on things not immune to fire. But on bosses, holy silver falchion of greater bane is better than the greatsword version, so you'd have higher boss DPS with falchions.

[MrTops]

I see you are still being stubborn about it.

I prefer to think of it as determined