Guild item restrictions

[TheDearLeader]

but it is currently a minor inconvenience to us all.

No.

It's an inconvenience to anyone not in a guild.

Guild people see an item with a Medium Augment slot and say "Sweet! Three more guild levels and I can slot +15 Stacking HP on this bad boy~!"

[umeannothing]

It's not a punishment anymore than the Mad Lute being UMD: Bard only is a punishment. It's just how the item works.

But if you want to get really technical... creating a guild is free for a VIP. Joining a guild is free for ANYONE. It doesn't cost TP.

You do realize what "Guildless Guild" means, right? You could join, and immediately turn off Guild Chat. No one would notice or care. You could continue to play the game the same way you always have, and wear this item.

If being social in an MMO is that difficult to you, be VIP, start your own guild, or don't wear the item. Or better yet, stop playing an MMO. Go tell me how awesome Skyrim is.



And specifically regarding the below : So you're saying *other* than Guild-restricted items, you can use each, and every, single item you get out of end rewards and chests? Without any time/thought invested?

Race Restrictions
Alignment Restrictions
Class Restrictions
Non-Proficient
Loot that's so horrible, you wouldn't use it anyway.

Loot's just.. like that man. It's a random chance. And there is still a much higher chance of having a guild-slot-free item than there is a guild-slot-possessing item.

Race restricted I can use if I am that race, alignment the same. class the same. non proficient I can equip whenever I want and suffer a penalty. Min GL I can never hope to equip unless I join a guild, or waste TP creating a guild.

I will never be a vip on this game again, never so your point about vip creating a free guild is moot.

Joining a guildless guild, I know exactly what it means, and I then run around with a guild name under mine, which I don't like even on the characters I DID waste TP on to make a guild to end the blind invites, mind you, every character I have, even my bank characters and mules has "do not show player guild names" checked in the U.I. because I do not place any importance on a player I meet over the guild, and if I did, I would likely say there would be some great people I have run with that I would NOT ever run with if I had a bad experience with a few people from their guild and knew it.

being social: by your standards, I have to be in a guild to be social? this is a failure statement, There is no requirement in an MMO that I talk to anyone, ever, especially in guild chat. I simply do not like having a chat box constantly scrolling with guild chat all the time, and turning it off can be just as damaging, even in a guildless guild.

MMO simply implies there are a massive multiplayers online regularly playing [the] game. It does not mean I am forced to interact with them if I should not feel like doing so, and should I want to, there is general chat for me to chat in general with anyone I wish to do so with.

now, putting a requirement of MGL1 on an item I ran the quest to get, is certainly a form of punishment, it means there is ZERO chance of me ever equipping the item and continuing to play the game they way I enjoy.

Again, it is also redundant, simply because putting a MGL1 on an item that cannot even slot the smallest guild gem possible until the guild is ML10. That is redundant. It is enough to let ANY player equip the item, but obviously if you are not in a ML 10 or better guild, you cannot slot a gem, let alone if you are not in a guild, you cannot even speak to the guild gem vendor, now that, in essence is double redundancy.

[umeannothing]

No.

It's an inconvenience to anyone not in a guild.

Guild people see an item with a Medium Augment slot and say "Sweet! Three more guild levels and I can slot +15 Stacking HP on this bad boy~!"

That's right, guild members do, but that guy that just looted a +3 flaming greatsword of holy burst with a medium gem slot AND minimum guild level 1 on it is going 'this is bs, I finally get something I can REALLY use, and I HAVE to be in a guild to use it?

It is simply enough that one is incapable of slotting a gem in a guild slot, there is no need for the redundancy that is screwing the soloist/ person that wants no guild for whatever reason.

[TheDearLeader]

Race restricted I can use if I am that race, alignment the same. class the same. non proficient I can equip whenever I want and suffer a penalty. Min GL I can never hope to equip unless I join a guild, or waste TP creating a guild.

I will never be a vip on this game again, never so your point about vip creating a free guild is moot.

Joining a guildless guild, I know exactly what it means, and I then run around with a guild name under mine, which I don't like even on the characters I DID waste TP on to make a guild to end the blind invites, mind you, every character I have, even my bank characters and mules has "do not show player guild names" checked in the U.I. because I do not place any importance on a player I meet over the guild, and if I did, I would likely say there would be some great people I have run with that I would NOT ever run with if I had a bad experience with a few people from their guild and knew it.

being social: by your standards, I have to be in a guild to be social? this is a failure statement, There is no requirement in an MMO that I talk to anyone, ever, especially in guild chat. I simply do not like having a chat box constantly scrolling with guild chat all the time, and turning it off can be just as damaging, even in a guildless guild.

MMO simply implies there are a massive multiplayers online regularly playing [the] game. It does not mean I am forced to interact with them if I should not feel like doing so, and should I want to, there is general chat for me to chat in general with anyone I wish to do so with.

now, putting a requirement of MGL1 on an item I ran the quest to get, is certainly a form of punishment, it means there is ZERO chance of me ever equipping the item and continuing to play the game they way I enjoy.

Again, it is also redundant, simply because putting a MGL1 on an item that cannot even slot the smallest guild gem possible until the guild is ML10. That is redundant. It is enough to let ANY player equip the item, but obviously if you are not in a ML 10 or better guild, you cannot slot a gem, let alone if you are not in a guild, you cannot even speak to the guild gem vendor, now that, in essence is double redundancy.

I've read what you've had to say here. I still find my opinion unswayed by your words.

You're perfectly willing to adapt to equip items for every other reason than this one - by this, I assume that you find this requirement unreasonable. I, however, find that mindset equally unreasonable. Items have requirements. This just happens to be the requirements for guild items.

You make it sound as if you already have made a guild - why not recruit all your toons into that one? A one-man guild isn't uncommon.

I equate this in my head to you telling me that your car is not running. I tell you to put gas in it. You say "but I don't like gasoline!". We find ourselves at an impasse.

Therefore, agree to disagree? Nevertheless, I am firm on my opinion that they are fine as they are.

[umeannothing]

I've read what you've had to say here. I still find my opinion unswayed by your words.

You're perfectly willing to adapt to equip items for every other reason than this one - by this, I assume that you find this requirement unreasonable. I, however, find that mindset equally unreasonable. Items have requirements. This just happens to be the requirements for guild items.

You make it sound as if you already have made a guild - why not recruit all your toons into that one? A one-man guild isn't uncommon.

I equate this in my head to you telling me that your car is not running. I tell you to put gas in it. You say "but I don't like gasoline!". We find ourselves at an impasse.

Therefore, agree to disagree? Nevertheless, I am firm on my opinion that they are fine as they are.

I have several guilds on several servers, and no guilds on some servers.

I canc ertainly agree that we each have an opinion, and mine is that guild items are already restricted simply by being a plain old item to any other player not in a guild, they can never use the slot anyway. My opinion stays the same, putting an MGL1 is redundant.

Oh as far as race/class restrictions: UMD lets you equip those as well, there is no UMD for MGL items, an there should be, this would also be acceptable in my eyes.

I can certainly agree to disagree TDL, you post alot of good advice on these forums, and are usually good about debates in that you never get too excited about it.

[1airwolf]

I've read what you've had to say here. I still find my opinion unswayed by your words.

You're perfectly willing to adapt to equip items for every other reason than this one - by this, I assume that you find this requirement unreasonable. I, however, find that mindset equally unreasonable. Items have requirements. This just happens to be the requirements for guild items.

You make it sound as if you already have made a guild - why not recruit all your toons into that one? A one-man guild isn't uncommon.

I equate this in my head to you telling me that your car is not running. I tell you to put gas in it. You say "but I don't like gasoline!". We find ourselves at an impasse.

Therefore, agree to disagree? Nevertheless, I am firm on my opinion that they are fine as they are.

well Opinions are like butt holes every one has one . And it seems that yours is not a good one. I just say take the guild requirement off it to equip it just use it for the slot.

[umeannothing]

well Opinions are like butt holes every one has one . And it seems that yours is not a good one. I just say take the guild requirement off it to equip it just use it for the slot.

You need to learn to tread carefully Grasshopper, everyone is entitled to their opinion, nobody says you have to agree with it.

Like TDL said, 'agree to disagree'. That is acceptance of that they have an opinion, and you have an opinion, and the opinions differ, but are not exactly wrong either.

[donfilibuster]

I have always tought there ought to be a default ship on the tower, a public ship from the city to let guildless people in.
You could use it to move between towers, get minor buffs, and add augment to your items, maybe for a fee.
The point is that guilds would like to have their own ship but not force anyone into being in a guild.

[Falco_Easts]

You can't make a dummy guild? Or join one of the myriad of "Guildless Guild"s that abound on every server?

Or...as I recommended four months ago when this thread was new, join a Guildless Guild/Make a dummy guild.

It's a game mechanic/item property. Either follow the rules thereof, or just don't use the item.

Players should not be forced to join guilds to access content/use items. Period. Are there any area's of the game that can't be accessed if you are the wrong race/class/alignment?

If being social in an MMO is that difficult to you, be VIP, start your own guild, or don't wear the item. Or better yet, stop playing an MMO. Go tell me how awesome Skyrim is.

What does being in a guild have to do wtih being social? I agree it used to be but since the failed update of Rise of the Guilds it seems it is more about accessing certain buffs and/or items.

And specifically regarding the below : So you're saying *other* than Guild-restricted items, you can use each, and every, single item you get out of end rewards and chests? Without any time/thought invested?

Race Restrictions
Alignment Restrictions
Class Restrictions
Non-Proficient
Loot that's so horrible, you wouldn't use it anyway.

Race Restrictions - UMD
Alignment Restrictions - UMD
Class Restrictions - UMD
Non-Proficient - Can still be equipped.
Loot that's so horrible, you wouldn't use it anyway. - Can still be equipped.

Loot's just.. like that man. It's a random chance. And there is still a much higher chance of having a guild-slot-free item than there is a guild-slot-possessing item.

I am fine on the guild slots, but why must someone be in a guild to use that item without using the slot.

[Falco_Easts]

I have always tought there ought to be a default ship on the tower, a public ship from the city to let guildless people in.
You could use it to move between towers, get minor buffs, and add augment to your items, maybe for a fee.
The point is that guilds would like to have their own ship but not force anyone into being in a guild.

I like this idea.

[Autolycus]

I have always tought there ought to be a default ship on the tower, a public ship from the city to let guildless people in.
You could use it to move between towers, get minor buffs, and add augment to your items, maybe for a fee.
The point is that guilds would like to have their own ship but not force anyone into being in a guild.

Good idea!
+1

[Autolycus]

Players should not be forced to join guilds to access content/use items. Period. Are there any area's of the game that can't be accessed if you are the wrong race/class/alignment?


What does being in a guild have to do wtih being social? I agree it used to be but since the failed update of Rise of the Guilds it seems it is more about accessing certain buffs and/or items.



Race Restrictions - UMD
Alignment Restrictions - UMD
Class Restrictions - UMD
Non-Proficient - Can still be equipped.
Loot that's so horrible, you wouldn't use it anyway. - Can still be equipped.




I am fine on the guild slots, but why must someone be in a guild to use that item without using the slot.

Well said. I agree on all points.
+1

[Talias006]

<snipped>
Go tell me how awesome Skyrim is.
</snipped>

I could tell you it's pretty frakking cool, but you might disagree...

<snipped>
Race Restrictions - UMD
Alignment Restrictions - UMD
Class Restrictions - UMD
Non-Proficient - Can still be equipped.
Loot that's so horrible, you wouldn't use it anyway. - Can still be equipped.
</snipped>

Your list made me want to jot something down, but after reading to the end of the thread, someone already beat me to it.
Most "restricted" items can be gotten around via UMD, which is just a skill anyone in or out of a guild can invest in.
Non-proficient items can be worn with some penalty, and sometimes the penalty is severe but it still has a less vitriolic work-around.
And yeah, horrible loot can still be worn by anyone in or out of a guild, and it has no restrictions so shouldn't even be a consideration for this argument.

I think if they just removed the MGL altogether, there would be less ridiculous tension. My unguilded toons would be happy as they could then use some stuff I saved but didn't notice they had guild restrictions on them.

One last thought, your analogy with the car... What if it uses electricity or bio-diesel as fuel?

[Vordax]

That's right, guild members do, but that guy that just looted a +3 flaming greatsword of holy burst with a medium gem slot AND minimum guild level 1 on it is going 'this is bs, I finally get something I can REALLY use, and I HAVE to be in a guild to use it?

Actually the guy that just looted that with a medium slot can sell it and buy 3 without the guild slot off the AH with the proceeds. Medium and large slot guild items can be sold for a decent amount of plat.

Vordax

[Vordax]

I could tell you it's pretty frakking cool, but you might disagree...



Your list made me want to jot something down, but after reading to the end of the thread, someone already beat me to it.
Most "restricted" items can be gotten around via UMD, which is just a skill anyone in or out of a guild can invest in.
Non-proficient items can be worn with some penalty, and sometimes the penalty is severe but it still has a less vitriolic work-around.
And yeah, horrible loot can still be worn by anyone in or out of a guild, and it has no restrictions so shouldn't even be a consideration for this argument.

I think if they just removed the MGL altogether, there would be less ridiculous tension. My unguilded toons would be happy as they could then use some stuff I saved but didn't notice they had guild restrictions on them.

One last thought, your analogy with the car... What if it uses electricity or bio-diesel as fuel?

Well there are also class restricted items and good restricted items (with no UMD). Now to use all these items requires more characters and a premium only has 4 slots, now they have to buy a new character slot to use these items... Requiring a character to be in a guild is no different IMO then requiring a character to be good or half-orc or whatever.

Vordax

[umeannothing]

Actually the guy that just looted that with a medium slot can sell it and buy 3 without the guild slot off the AH with the proceeds. Medium and large slot guild items can be sold for a decent amount of plat.

Vordax

Hasn't been my experience, and I list every single item I loot from a chest on the AH 1 time for 3 days, If they were so valuable, then listing them a couple to a few thousand over base would insinuate they would sell, when I on occasionally sell an item with a medium slot. I sell more of them to the general vendor by at least 3 to 1 than I sell on the AH.

It is a bad game mechanic, no matter how many band aids you want to duct tape over it. Sounds like you just don't want non guilded people keeping their items with a medium slot for themselves to me, I almost get the feeling that you somehow do not feel they should be able to use the loot they get without being in a guild, because it has a slot on it they can't use anyway.

I think after this thread though, I will begin selling every slotted item I get on a non guilded character to the general vendor, it is my loot to do as I like with except use it, so I will remove it from the market for all.

[danotmano1998]

I can understand the frustration of a guild slot item not being equippable by a non guilded character, but....

I could only WISH that all the gear requirements were so ridiculously easy to overcome.
*Blind Invite to guild*
*Accept*
*Turn off guild chat*
*Equip Item*

Just sayin....

[Vordax]

Hasn't been my experience, and I list every single item I loot from a chest on the AH 1 time for 3 days, If they were so valuable, then listing them a couple to a few thousand over base would insinuate they would sell, when I on occasionally sell an item with a medium slot. I sell more of them to the general vendor by at least 3 to 1 than I sell on the AH.

It is a bad game mechanic, no matter how many band aids you want to duct tape over it. Sounds like you just don't want non guilded people keeping their items with a medium slot for themselves to me, I almost get the feeling that you somehow do not feel they should be able to use the loot they get without being in a guild, because it has a slot on it they can't use anyway.

I think after this thread though, I will begin selling every slotted item I get on a non guilded character to the general vendor, it is my loot to do as I like with except use it, so I will remove it from the market for all.

Your funny! I lol'd.

Vordax

[Talias006]

I can understand the frustration of a guild slot item not being equippable by a non guilded character, but....

I could only WISH that all the gear requirements were so ridiculously easy to overcome.
*Blind Invite to guild*
*Accept*
*Turn off guild chat*
*Equip Item*

Just sayin....

And then you get the other end of the stick...
*Logs on to play one day*
*You have been expelled from your guild by XYZ*

Any other bright ideas?
Rinse and repeat? Okay, see how long that lasts.

Seriously, if some people are adamant about it, then just get rid of the whole Guild restricted items idea.
I hear a lot about people thinking others are complaining in a way that makes some viewers think they're crying for their Waaaambulance.
Almost nothing in a constructive manner about a possible work-around that does NOT involve joining a guild.

Your funny! I lol'd.

Vordax

Your funny bone must be made of a different material than mine.
I thought he was serious about junking all the guild slot and guild restricted items rather than let them filter back into the populace via AH.

[umeannothing]

And then you get the other end of the stick...
*Logs on to play one day*
*You have been expelled from your guild by XYZ*

Any other bright ideas?
Rinse and repeat? Okay, see how long that lasts.

Seriously, if some people are adamant about it, then just get rid of the whole Guild restricted items idea.
I hear a lot about people thinking others are complaining in a way that makes some viewers think they're crying for their Waaaambulance.
Almost nothing in a constructive manner about a possible work-around that does NOT involve joining a guild.



Your funny bone must be made of a different material than mine.
I thought he was serious about junking all the guild slot and guild restricted items rather than let them filter back into the populace via AH.

I am serious as a heart attack about it. Why should I bother anymore listing them for a measly 4 to 15k plat? Depending on what it is, that is all I will make from the AH IF they sold, which I only sell 1 in 4 of them I would guesstimate.

Nope, better for me to just make sure that since I can't use them, neither can the person in a guild that may actually want them. I feel it is about as helpful as being told "Join a guild" when I don't want in a guild, not for any reason.

Would be nice if some people could play the game the way they enjoyed and not be penalized by the game for wanting to play that way, not penalized once by being able to NOT put a guild gem in an item, but being penalized a second time by not even being able to use about 20% of the gear they loot from questing in general. (That's about 1 in 5 items you loot is likely to be guild restricted... If those numbers are too high for you, lets go 1 in 8 then, and it is STILL too high.)