Sad state of pugs

[sweez]

ok nvm I was thinking of sometihng else lol

[joneb1999]

Some of you guys are so funny. Vet as attributed to a player is different from veteran status for a toon. I don't know the official amount of time a player has to have played to be a vet but I think its safe to say you are one if you played from the very start of the game. lol

[Postumus]

I normally avoid putting up Lfms, and today a reaffirmation as to why.

Lfm reads: tr/vet preferred, hear voice and follow instrucions or dont apply.

party gets four, we go in. lfm changed to in progress.

caged troll #2 ready, and healer joins, I say dont pull the lever wait till healer gets in. when barb Ihave been talking with all along pulls it anyhow,

my response" dude ***? i said not to",

healer says" lemme guess someone pulled it"

, " yep he did,, what the hell is your problem"(me to barb) , no response,

"well, f/o guys we can redo it or go to gwylans" we f/o

I boot the barb, and say to rest, " well that problem is overwith"

"man that was low", " yer a jerk", drop drop drop.

so I'm a jerk for booting someone that cant/wont listen, and tryiung to make up the favor /xp for the rest of the group?

PUGS SUK>

rant off

From the tenor of the LFM, NONE of what happened, including the 'drop drop drop,' surprises me.

[Razcar]

I always thought a vet is someone who played this game for more than 1-2 years...

I'm a vet. Here's a screen shot of me checking our party's half-orc for tics:

[Fenrisulven6]

so I'm a jerk for booting someone that cant/wont listen, and tryiung to make up the favor /xp for the rest of the group?

Step back and consider for a moment that favor/xp is not a high priority for the rest of the group.

PUGs make quests more "interesting". Some of us like that , while it appears you do not.

No worries, to each his own playstyle, but you probably should avoid leading PUGs in the future.

[Lissyl]

I got a /t from a TR/VET ONLY listing the other day on one of my non-Orien characters.

Him: "Bastion?"
Me: "I've never even set foot in Amrath yet, I'm sorry but I don't know the quest."
Him: "That's okay, just haste us."

I guess the ad meant 'TR/VETERAN HASTER'. If I'da known that was all they needed, I'da signed up much earlier.

[stille_nacht]

also, tr/vet for caged trolls? can see why you got the party you did, people who think you need TR/vet for caged trolls on any difficulty..

[TheRealest]

I'm a vet. Here's a screen shot of me checking our party's half-orc for tics:

hehe, thanks for the laugh

[Zillee]

I got a /t from a TR/VET ONLY listing the other day on one of my non-Orien characters.

Him: "Bastion?"
Me: "I've never even set foot in Amrath yet, I'm sorry but I don't know the quest."
Him: "That's okay, just haste us."

I guess the ad meant 'TR/VETERAN HASTER'. If I'da known that was all they needed, I'da signed up much earlier.

Similar story, got a tell for a chronoscope while I was on my lowbie bard for a group that was tr/vet advertised. Pointed out that I didn't meet the LFM requirements, but the leader wanted songs. *shrugs* I didn't mind, but it did make me wonder what is the thought process behind the lfms with such stipulations.

[Limey]

Pugs=random people. Do you make a post "Sad state of dice" when you roll a 1?

[Ungood]

Pugs=random people. Do you make a post "Sad state of dice" when you roll a 1?

But you know they would.

[Maugrim101]

I always wonder about LFMs asking for TRs (Not Experienced players) before level 11-12. Bound to account loot can be given to a fresh off the boat toon. It's only really when you get to 11-13 and the GS and raid loot (Bound to character) is withdrawn from the TR cache that there's any noticable differance.

[licho]

Pugs=random people. Do you make a post "Sad state of dice" when you roll a 1?

Sometimes i feel like writing a ran about "Sad state of loot table & end rewards." :-(

[sirgog]

57 minute Shroud today

There's some awful PUGs out there. I should have known it was going to be ugly when people asked over and over for GH in part 1 despite actually having the GH song.

Don't get me started on part 2... my bard was using debuffing weapons as I could see people were struggling to hit Kas'quik, and I kept taking aggro.

[altrocks]

I normally avoid putting up Lfms, and today a reaffirmation as to why.

Lfm reads: tr/vet preferred, hear voice and follow instrucions or dont apply.

party gets four, we go in. lfm changed to in progress.

caged troll #2 ready, and healer joins, I say dont pull the lever wait till healer gets in. when barb Ihave been talking with all along pulls it anyhow,

my response" dude ***? i said not to",

healer says" lemme guess someone pulled it"

, " yep he did,, what the hell is your problem"(me to barb) , no response,

"well, f/o guys we can redo it or go to gwylans" we f/o

I boot the barb, and say to rest, " well that problem is overwith"

"man that was low", " yer a jerk", drop drop drop.

so I'm a jerk for booting someone that cant/wont listen, and tryiung to make up the favor /xp for the rest of the group?

PUGS SUK>

rant off

I think the faux pas here was booting the barb AFTER seeming to resolve the issue. If you had said "we'll just move on to Gwylan's without the guy who can't listen" instead of "we'll just run it again before we move on for the sake of the cleric" you may not have gotten the reaction you did. Not saying I would have dropped group because of it or that I don't understand it, but low-level pugs are fickle things and you must tread lightly on them.

I tend to pug a lot and rarely have issues. If I'm zerging through low level content and decide to play with other people for some conversation/help, then either they can have fun/keep up/enjoy it OR they pike at the beginning (if possible) for the loot/xp OR they get bored, drop group/quit and I'm left with the better people I've picked up along the way.

When it comes to mid-high level content (starting about VoN levels or so) where someone can ruin the entire run, lock us all out, and/or wipe the group because they don't know what they're doing, then I'm a little more picky. Then again, those are usually P2P quests where you get a slightly better level of player (only slightly), in that they've played enough to want/need VIP/more adventure packs to keep playing and having fun. It's not always a sure bet, but it's slightly more reliable.

At end-game it gets a little more tricky because getting to 20 has become trivial on a first life where you can TR-pike your way through levels 10 to 20 pretty easily and not even have a PrE/any raid loot/a clue about your role in the group. There, I find that putting up "new players welcome" in the LFM makes them much more receptive to listening, learning and following directions, especially if you're kind to them.

There's also days where I only want people who I know can do it for a quick/reliable completion, and so I only take a majority of people who I've played with before (quite a few). There's a whole community of puggers out there that see each other regularly and know who to trust, who to avoid, who can do their job and who can't. Honestly, I find these groups to be more fun and more reliable than most guild runs that only pug out a few spots they can't fill at the moment. Guild runs are more tolerant of less experienced and skilled players just because they're part of the guild. Puggers have to be at least passable in most raids to not get blacklisted/squelched, thus ending their toon's career.

[altrocks]

I always wonder about LFMs asking for TRs (Not Experienced players) before level 11-12. Bound to account loot can be given to a fresh off the boat toon. It's only really when you get to 11-13 and the GS and raid loot (Bound to character) is withdrawn from the TR cache that there's any noticable differance.

There's also an expectation of a TR, at any level, to already know the quests well enough to not need hand-holding, since they probably went through the content in their previous life already (possibly many times due to favor grinding, or xp grinding if it's a multiple-TR). It can be a huge difference even running harbor quests with only Korthos gear. Knowing there the traps, secret doors, spawn points, etc, are ahead of time Vs. wandering around, drawing aggro, looking for the shrine, can't find Arlos, why won't this door open, etc. WW can take hours with a group like that where it's a quick in-and-out for almost any TR who paid attention in their previous life/lives.

This expectation is sometime not met, but it's still there when the LFM is posted.

[somerecluse]

i usually just put BYOHeals in my lfms. dont care who joins or if you know the quest as long as you heal yourself some. rarely get bad applicants. trs/vets only lfms tend to attract lots of people who don't contribute more than theyre worth in dungeon scaling. just my experience over couple lives posting different types of LFMs. *shrug*

[wizzy_catt]

Caged trolls hmmm help!!! i need trs and vets to zerg it!

[Silent-Death]

PUGS SUK>

Not trying to be rude, but PUGs dont suck. The one you're in does, or just your party members.
But not all of them do. Only about 10-20% of them.

That's like tasting one flavour of Ice Cream and saying they're all bad. Just my 2 cp.

[Enoach]

All weekend long I lead PUGs through every level 2 quests and all the level 3 quests not part of quest chains on Elite. Level range for the level 2 quests being levles 2 to 4 and level 3 quests being 2 to 5.

Of all of these quests only one quest had any drama:

First party member joins group while in progress. On their way to the group they suffer some falling damage, and cry out heal me. As the cleric in the group, I politely let them know that they do not need to cry out, but that I'm below them and have no way of getting up to them. However, if they continue down the shaft I will take care of their wounds. Other members of the party also point out to this person that it is rude to cry out for heals. Issue resolved and another person educated on proper edicate of communicating with the parties cleric.

However it ended with a different person being upset, cussing out the party, claiming that all the other members of the party would never make it in DDO... All this because they decided to run into the last room with three big spiders after running through a Fire Trap, while I the cleric was with the rogue. I don't walk through an elite trap and take some damage when I don't have to. They proceed to die before I can get into the room. However, the rogue decided to open the secrete door reveling the named troll and a couple scorpians. Now with two named mobs running around the party is pinched. Of course the running around boxes and pillers did not help me keep the group alive. The named spider is killed and someone manages to pick up the item to end the quest but then succumbs to the massive damage that a Named Troll can dish out. The rogue attempts to kite the troll around as it is now just the three of us standing in the dungeon. I'm grabbing stones and healing the rogue, waiting for a good oppertunity to get a few good blows in, all the while the cussing and calling me names is coming from this one individual. When the rogue finally succumbed to the Troll, I took cover up above as I was out of spell points and needed to take a moment to get my bareings. Brandishing a saved clicky puppy summon after downing a couple minor mnumonics, I jump down and kill this final foe.

And since there is no way back to the shrine in Redfangs unless you have DDoor I let everyone know that they can release and come back in to get their chests.


As has been pointed out before in several posts we remember the bad far more then the good - I will remember the name of this person who decided to be upset because of their own decision. However, it still does not pursued me to stop PUGing or leading PUGs.

Also as a note in all my years playing DDO I have only Squelched 2 people and reported 1 for abusive behavior, and I PUG 80% of the time.