Cleric: Running epics

[Mubjon]

What equipment should I have before I start running epics? I have tried a few pug's but the people I ran with took way too much damage in such a short time that I burn through 5 major pots and 2K sp. I cannot afford to spend 100K plat every time I want to run epic content.

I am a caster type cleric with 36 wis, have not finished my exceptional wisdom item yet from the shroud so that would be +2 more to Wisdom, I have a +1 already. So other than finishing the third tier to get me another +2 exceptional wisdom, what do I need to effectively do epics as a cleric?

I did start with a 16 wisdom as opposed to 18 due to wanting a 16 str and 16 con at starting out.

[Sarisa]

Most of the easy epics, like Big Top, Bargain of Blood, Snitch, Black Loch, Partycrashers, VoN1, and The Tide Turns will not require Mnemonics. If you do, there is more a problem with the group or a problem with overhealing than anything else.

For those quests, all you really need is enough HP to survive a Disintegrate (which can hit for upwards of 420 damage in VoN1 and Big Top), Heavy Fortification, and whatever equipment you have to boost up your healing. I like having a Superior Potency 6 item, the Amrath Ardor 8 clickies (there are two, I carry both but you just really need one), and carry a stack of Heal Scrolls to stretch your SP further.

Once you're more familiar with the content, you will know just how much you can let a person get down before you'll need to toss them a heal. If there are enemy casters around, it's generally a good idea to keep everyone full.

Make sure you turn Quicken off for buffing, and put it back on during the fights. You can't afford to get a concentration failure (which will just waste SP for no effect) in many of the fights. You usually will not need Empower Healing on for most epic content.

In addition, once you get some experience, you'll know when you can toss some offensive spells of your own, and when you need to conserve and use scrolls and your aura as your primary sources of healing.

Since you took some initial starting strength, it'll be useful, once the trash is under control, to toss in some melee damage. Dreamspitter or Rahl's Might are both good for pure clerics, and help out the party. Melee'ing in the group with your RS Aura active (turn Empower Healing on before you activate it) will greatly help reduce your healing costs. The RS Bursts also help when everyone's grouped up and you take a big spike in damage.

I would recommend avoiding Offering of Blood, Chain of Flames, ADQ1, VoN3, 4, and 5, Devil's Assault, and Spies in the House until you have a lot more experience. These are all among the most difficult of epics to get into.

The intermediate ones, VoN6, VoN2, Small Problem, Wizard King, ADQ2, and Chronoscope you can join in once you get a bit more experience with the easy ones.

[SirValentine]

Agreed with most of your comments. However, I have to disagree with this:

You usually will not need Empower Healing on for most epic content.

Turn this feat on at level 6 and never turn it off.

With enhancements and items available to make it cheaper, this is +75% for as little as 4 SP.

And, it's also improving your aura and bursts, for free. The aura improvement alone makes up for the slight mana cost increase on your spells. But the extra mana isn't wasted on your cure spells. (On Heal, admittedly, you've probably got some overkill. So what?)

[moops]

I think you just had a really bad group or the group had bad luck. If you are just healing, you pretty much don't need anything--however if you want to start landing your spells youll want to work on spell pen and the DC for whichever school you choose.
My cleric doesnt even carry RS and she rarely uses any pots, but she does have a bauble.

[Habreno]

You'll be just fine. Having a 36 WIS, I'm assuming +1 exceptional, Human WIS 1, +2 tome, +6 item, and Cleric WIS 3, plus all levelups (with a Guild Ship buff- if 36 without GS buff, then very nice!), which is quite nice for a first-life Cleric.

By the way, +2 exceptional won't be that much to you; +1 to DC's and 29 spellpoints (I'm assuming you're pure) for you.

You mention you're having a hard time running epics. This is totally not your fault; you're not "not ready" in character, you're merely "not ready" in mindset. Epics require a different mindset than normal questing; Elite Amrath (level 21;22 for the ToD raid) is still 3-4 levels UNDER Epics (level 25 content) and thus much different. I do recommend getting a Bauble from Weapons Shipment; it will be used a lot and is a Major Memonic that recharges. That should cut down on much of your Major usage, often having one major used is a big deal; after two or so, it's looking more like a lost cause.


If you are on Argonessen, add Habreno; he's 20 Cleric and I wouldn't mind pulling you into an EChrono group, or an EVoN 6 (5 run on Elite or Normal simply to get to VoN 6 entrance) or even the nightly House P runs.

[Mubjon]

Most of the easy epics, like Big Top, Bargain of Blood, Snitch, Black Loch, Partycrashers, VoN1, and The Tide Turns will not require Mnemonics. If you do, there is more a problem with the group or a problem with overhealing than anything else.

For those quests, all you really need is enough HP to survive a Disintegrate (which can hit for upwards of 420 damage in VoN1 and Big Top), Heavy Fortification, and whatever equipment you have to boost up your healing. I like having a Superior Potency 6 item, the Amrath Ardor 8 clickies (there are two, I carry both but you just really need one), and carry a stack of Heal Scrolls to stretch your SP further.

Once you're more familiar with the content, you will know just how much you can let a person get down before you'll need to toss them a heal. If there are enemy casters around, it's generally a good idea to keep everyone full.

Make sure you turn Quicken off for buffing, and put it back on during the fights. You can't afford to get a concentration failure (which will just waste SP for no effect) in many of the fights. You usually will not need Empower Healing on for most epic content.

In addition, once you get some experience, you'll know when you can toss some offensive spells of your own, and when you need to conserve and use scrolls and your aura as your primary sources of healing.

Since you took some initial starting strength, it'll be useful, once the trash is under control, to toss in some melee damage. Dreamspitter or Rahl's Might are both good for pure clerics, and help out the party. Melee'ing in the group with your RS Aura active (turn Empower Healing on before you activate it) will greatly help reduce your healing costs. The RS Bursts also help when everyone's grouped up and you take a big spike in damage.

I would recommend avoiding Offering of Blood, Chain of Flames, ADQ1, VoN3, 4, and 5, Devil's Assault, and Spies in the House until you have a lot more experience. These are all among the most difficult of epics to get into.

The intermediate ones, VoN6, VoN2, Small Problem, Wizard King, ADQ2, and Chronoscope you can join in once you get a bit more experience with the easy ones.

I do not have all the packs yet so I am limited to what I can run epics in. I have ran them in devils assault (I think it was in the market place baracks).

So basically I will need to get the other packs as soon as possible so I can try the easier epics. It was crazy because I can solo much of the content, even some of it on elite.

[Mubjon]

You'll be just fine. Having a 36 WIS, I'm assuming +1 exceptional, Human WIS 1, +2 tome, +6 item, and Cleric WIS 3, plus all levelups (with a Guild Ship buff- if 36 without GS buff, then very nice!), which is quite nice for a first-life Cleric.

By the way, +2 exceptional won't be that much to you; +1 to DC's and 29 spellpoints (I'm assuming you're pure) for you.

You mention you're having a hard time running epics. This is totally not your fault; you're not "not ready" in character, you're merely "not ready" in mindset. Epics require a different mindset than normal questing; Elite Amrath (level 21;22 for the ToD raid) is still 3-4 levels UNDER Epics (level 25 content) and thus much different. I do recommend getting a Bauble from Weapons Shipment; it will be used a lot and is a Major Memonic that recharges. That should cut down on much of your Major usage, often having one major used is a big deal; after two or so, it's looking more like a lost cause.


If you are on Argonessen, add Habreno; he's 20 Cleric and I wouldn't mind pulling you into an EChrono group, or an EVoN 6 (5 run on Elite or Normal simply to get to VoN 6 entrance) or even the nightly House P runs.

You hit is spot on for the Wis score and that is with ship buffs, I figured the extra +2 exceptional would be good as it will come with my con-op as well. So I will still get it and I am looking forward to it, almost have enough larges to finish.

I will have to get the pack I believe for weapons shipment, the wife will not let me spend the money each month to buy VIP so I just buy packs when I have the extra money.

I am on Sarlona with this cleric and he is pure, although I thought about putting a cleric on the other servers to help when this one is on time for raids.

[Sarisa]

If you only have Devil's Assault as an epic capable pack, you will not enjoy epics. Devil's Assault is one of the more difficult out there, and requires a good bit of familiarity and experience to run it well. Chronoscope isn't terribly difficult in a good group, but it does still require a bit of experience. Chronoscope essentially comes down to how good your group's CC caster is, and to a lesser extent the quality of DPS for the end fight.

If you're looking for a good entry level epic pack, Phiarlan Carnival is best. It has 3 out of the 4 quests in the "easy" category, provides a nice quick source of dungeon tokens. There are also a fair number of items, that while not great compared to other epic items, are still a nice step up from random loot.

I notice I missed rating the Fens quests. Put Fathom the Depths in the easy category, Last Stand and Claw of Vulkoor in the moderate category, and Into the Deep in the hard category. Since you need to do the Hezrou optional in Into the Deep to get the epic chest, and that is the only source of shards, you will need to be experienced and in a good group to complete any Fens item.

For Weapon's Shipment, that's the Devil's of Shavarath. This is a pack that you should get familiar with before you do epics. If you can heal a group through Sins of Attrition on hard without using any resources but scrolls, you are ready for the intermediate epics. There are also a lot of other exceptional items (like the Superior Ardor 8 clickies, and CON6/Greater False Life belts) in this pack.

[Mubjon]

So I need to buy the carnival pack then next, I just got reavers and I have the one for the shroud/Hound/VoD plus a few others for low to mid levels, shan to kor, necro and I got the harbringer of madness, I think I am missing one but not sure.

I know I do not have the ones that you mentioned for epic content though

[Kinerd]

It's pretty difficult to CC as a cleric in epics. If people are taking too much damage, it usually means your arcane isn't up to snuff.

[SirValentine]

It's pretty difficult to CC as a cleric in epics.

CC wasn't too hard to do pre-U9, but the U9 mob save increase made it a lot tougher. The Extend nerf and Symbol of Persuasion nerf didn't help, either.

[Sarisa]

If you choose your targets well, you can land Destruction, Implosion, Symbol of Stunning, and Greater Command. Energy Drain is also very helpful, both to lower a targets saves and to lower their maximum HP (that they don't recover when they restore their negative levels).

[Habreno]

If you choose your targets well, you can land Destruction, Implosion, Symbol of Stunning, and Greater Command. Energy Drain is also very helpful, both to lower a targets saves and to lower their maximum HP (that they don't recover when they restore their negative levels).

Indeed, my Cleric often goes around the Carnival epics spamming Energy Drain/Destruction combos. Unheightened on a 31 save, I get fails a lot. And Implosion with a 33 save works really well after a Symbol of Death softens them up.

[Mubjon]

I will have to get the other adventure packs before I can try those spells in epic.

[Habreno]

I will have to get the other adventure packs before I can try those spells in epic.

Not a problem, Carnival, VoN, and others are decent options.

[Rusty_Can]

What equipment should I have before I start running epics?

I would recommend
- greensteel gear providing some useful effects (e.g. Concordant Opposition, guards, etc) and:
a) (if you feel squishy) up to 45 hp (Elemental Energy);
b) (if you feel comfortable with your hp) up to 150 spellpoints (Elemental Spell Power);
eventually you will be able to wear several GS items, after cleansing them;
- items boosting your healing and nuking spells (e.g. Devotion, Potency, Efficacy, etc.); as suggested, Amrath is a good place to find some;
- Torc of Prince Raiyum-de II (raid loot from Zawabi's Revenge);
- Mysterious Bauble: it drops in Weapons Shipment and it works as an Elixir of Major Mnemonic Enhancement (1/rest).

[Mubjon]

I would recommend
- greensteel gear providing some useful effects (e.g. Concordant Opposition, guards, etc) and:
a) (if you feel squishy) up to 45 hp (Elemental Energy);
b) (if you feel comfortable with your hp) up to 150 spellpoints (Elemental Spell Power);
eventually you will be able to wear several GS items, after cleansing them;
- items boosting your healing and nuking spells (e.g. Devotion, Potency, Efficacy, etc.); as suggested, Amrath is a good place to find some;
- Torc of Prince Raiyum-de II (raid loot from Zawabi's Revenge);
- Mysterious Bauble: it drops in Weapons Shipment and it works as an Elixir of Major Mnemonic Enhancement (1/rest).

Thank you, I am going to purchase VIP for 3 months I think so I can run some of those areas before I get the TP to buy the packs. Plus I think that if I do it then I get 1000 TP per month for that 3 months which is a pretty good deal.

[good_ole_corwin]

I wouldnt bother with devotion. Personally I just carry 3 Superior Ardor VI clickies that are readily available in the AH - I dont think Ive run out yet before shrining, its 27 minutes worth of clickies. Devotion wont stack with it the boost isnt as high and takes up an inventory slot. Ardor VIII would be nice, sure, but even with the VI version a mass cure moderate heals ~190 HPs, you have energy bursts and mass heal for higher aoe healing... Sure getting an ardor bonus on mass critical could be nice, but not really a must-have IMHO.

Potency vs. Efficacy is a bit of a different debate, since the 1 minute boost from a use of Efficacy is uncomfortably short and the bonus is the same as from potency. But Im doing fine on the easy epics with just efficacy clickies, so I wouldnt say a potency item is a prerequisite for a cleric before running any epics at all.

One more piece of advice Id give, learn to use any little bit of advantage you can get your party. When arcanes are putting up disco balls and webs, put a symbol of death in front of them. -2 to saves counts, even if it doesnt penetrate to every mob. Use prayer in battles, its just -1 debuff, but why not? And of course, try energy drain on minibosses (the big ones will be immune to it, but the named Phiarlan chick in Big Top isnt, for example).

Most importantly, when you get to a group (even better, send a tell before joining), tell them its your first run of the epic version. Let them explain the strategy to you, ask if pets are ok, if there are any specific buffs needed, etc. etc. Dont be a noob and let people help you evolve from a newb Since you started this thread I dont think that should be a problem in your case, but I had to say it.

[krackythehoodedone]

I'd go for 2000+ SP.

GS SP item & Archmagi or maybe Leviks/Thelis.

Reaver Gauntlets. All the healing amp lines

Radiant servant is awesome

The two Amrath clickies giving 3x3 mins of 75% are a must.

40 ish Wis which you will need for the SP anyhow.

Remember if your not fighting you can sneak +3 exep stats on a GS weapon.

Empower Healing and Quicken are essential.

Dont go into any Epics without a good stack of Heal Scrolls. These are used during Boss fights too eek out your SP.

Wise to have a few mana pots..but dont throw them away. If the partry is obviously failing dont keep up a sinking ship by wasting your precious pots.

You will need to be reasonably resillient. ie half decent hit points/saves.

So just generally solid build/solid equipment. Nothing super special or Epic.

Then its more of what and how you use your Mana that will see you through. When to throw a mass heal, how you keep the group together. How you use your radiance. How you manage your SP through the run.

Also the group you run with will have a dramatic effect on your progress. If you run with a good solid group then you will be fine. I cant stress how important that is.

I have deleberately not mentioned doing anything else like combat or offensive spellcasting. I would strongly recommend you get to grips with the healing aspect in Epics before you start doing other stuff as well