lvl 20 Storm/force air savant Sorc Pure. opinions plz.

[Espario]

Alrighty, i thought this was pretty good. need advice. there isnt a whole lot that can be done. but i did the best i can. am not makeing huge changes. definently not changeing how the stats are layed out. or the race. the best sorcerers in game are drows. due to there bonus to CHA. makes the later lvls great. lol. leave constructive critisizm. and ill repost the build as changes are made. thankies

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.09.02
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20 Pure Sorc Storm Caster
Level 20 Neutral Good Drow Male
(20 Sorcerer) 
Hit Points: 182
Spell Points: 2170 
BAB: 10\10\15\20
Fortitude: 8
Reflex: 8
Will: 22

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength              8                    10
Dexterity            12                    14
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence         10                    10
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             20                    30

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 20
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 20

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               1                     2
Bluff                 5                    10
Concentration         6                    25
Diplomacy             5                    10
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                5                    10
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  1                     2
Intimidate            5                    10
Jump                 -1                     0
Listen               -1                     1
Move Silently         1                     2
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                  n/a
Repair                0                     0
Search                0                     2
Spot                 -1                     1
Swim                 -1                     0
Tumble                n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device      7                    21.5

Level 1 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Spell (1): Magic Missle
Spell (1): Niac's Cold Ray
Enhancement: Storm Manipulation I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded I


Level 2 (Sorcerer)
Spell (1): Expeditious Retreat
Enhancement: Charged Spellcasting I
Enhancement: Force Manipulation I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma I


Level 3 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell
Spell (1): Hypnotism
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Empowering I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Deadly Shocks I
Enhancement: Storm Manipulation II


Level 4 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: CHA
Spell (2): Blur
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Force Manipulation II


Level 5 (Sorcerer)
Spell (2): Eagle's Spendor
Enhancement: Charged Spellcasting II
Enhancement: Storm Manipulation III
Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded II


Level 6 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality
Spell (3): Chain Missiles
Enhancement: Sorcerer Air Savant I
Enhancement: Deadly Shocks II


Level 7 (Sorcerer)
Spell (3): Lightning Bolt
Spell (2): Electric Loop
Enhancement: Storm Manipulation IV
Enhancement: Force Manipulation III
Enhancement: Sorcerer Spell Penetration I


Level 8 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: CHA
Spell (4): Wall of Fire
Enhancement: Charged Spellcasting III
Enhancement: Kinetic Spellcasting I
Enhancement: Kinetic Spellcasting II
Enhancement: Deadly Kinetics I
Enhancement: Deadly Kinetics II


Level 9 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Spell (3): Haste
Spell (2): Resist Energy
Spell (4): Force Missles
Enhancement: Deadly Shocks III
Enhancement: Storm Manipulation V
Enhancement: Force Manipulation IV


Level 10 (Sorcerer)
Spell (5): Ball Lightning
Enhancement: Force Manipulation V
Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded III


Level 11 (Sorcerer)
Spell (3): Displacement
Spell (4): Phantasmal Killer
Spell (5): Eladar's Electric Surge


Level 12 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: CHA
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Evocation
Spell (6): Chain Lightning
Enhancement: Sorcerer Air Savant II
Enhancement: Charged Spellcasting IV
Enhancement: Kinetic Spellcasting III
Enhancement: Force Manipulation VI
Enhancement: Sorcerer Spell Penetration II


Level 13 (Sorcerer)
Spell (5): Cyclonic Blast
Spell (4): Charm Monster
Spell (6): Flesh to Stone
Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma II


Level 14 (Sorcerer)
Spell (7): Mass Protection From Elements
Enhancement: Charged Spellcasting V
Enhancement: Deadly Shocks IV
Enhancement: Storm Manipulation VI
Enhancement: Storm Manipulation VII


Level 15 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Spell (5): Cloudkill
Spell (6): Greater Heroism
Spell (7): Power Word: Blind
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Deadly Shocks V


Level 16 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: CHA
Spell (8): Trap the Soul
Enhancement: Force Manipulation VII
Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded IV


Level 17 (Sorcerer)
Spell (7): Delayed Blast Fireball
Spell (8): Mass Charm Monster
Enhancement: Charged Spellcasting VI


Level 18 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell
Spell (9): Mass Hold Monster
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Empowering II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Air Savant III
Enhancement: Kinetic Spellcasting IV


Level 19 (Sorcerer)
Spell (8): Power Word: Stun
Spell (9): Power Word: Kill
Enhancement: Kinetic Spellcasting V
Enhancement: Kinetic Spellcasting VI
Enhancement: Deadly Shocks VI
Enhancement: Deadly Kinetics III


Level 20 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: CHA
Spell (9): Summon Monster IX
Enhancement: Sorcerer Bloodline of Power
Enhancement: Deadly Kinetics IV
Enhancement: Deadly Kinetics V

[Dirichlet]

Stats: Points in Dex do nothing for you. Str and Int are the places to put spare points if you can't afford more Con. You've got the right idea though: Cha first, then Con, then whatever.

Skills: That half point in UMD does nothing (ranks get rounded down), so you can put that elsewhere. You might want a full rank (two points) in Tumble. Not much else to say; Concentration and UMD are all that really matter.

Feats: I wouldn't recommend Force of Personality. Your will save is good anyway being a Sorc (to be honest will isn't that important in this game), and you don't have enough feats to spend on things like that. GSF: Evo or Spell Pen can go in its place. You'll probably want Maximise taken earlier; about level 12 is when I switched Max/Emp on and never turned them off again. It's also around this level you'll run into pesky archers with Evasion; if you can fit in Heighten sooner that would be better. Everything else is fine. Some might say you can drop Extend these days, but I couldn't live without it.

Spells: I presume you're swapping many of these out when they become redundant (you don't need Electric Loop after level 12, or Lightning Bolt after level 18, for instance). You might want to make a seperate spell list for level 20 so we can comment on it. Cold is the usual recommended secondary for Air Savants, but Force is an option. One of Air's weaknesses is against liches such as Abbot, which happen to also be immune to Cold. Force works against everything. There's no point taking any Fire spells without putting APs into their enhancement lines; they won't do enough damage and so you just won't use them. If you want a Fire spell, take Meteor Swarm as this will be buffed by your Force enhancements. Also, you'll want Ice Storm as a persistant AoE instead of Firewall (same again, it gets buffed by Force).

Enhancements: You need one of Empowering or Maximizing at second rank to qualify for Savant III. Why go for Empowering? Most of the time you'll either have both of these enabled or neither, so go for the one that saves you most SP. You can drop Elven Dexterity and also ranks III and IV of Energy of the Dragonblooded; you need the second rank for Savant I, but the further ranks are really not worth it. That'll save you some SP which you might need for Charisma III (depending on gear levels - tomes, +7 item, exceptionals, Litany - you might need it to even out your Cha score).

[soulaeon]

Are you going to lesser reincarnate? Otherwise, have at least 10 base strength.

Stats: Points in Dex do nothing for you. Str and Int are the places to put spare points if you can't afford more Con. You've got the right idea though: Cha first, then Con, then whatever.

Intellect is not retroactive, so unless one needs lots of action points and has all those point there at an early level, it does even less nothing than dexterity.
Dexterity adds to tumble, balance and reflex saves. All three do something useful at any level, which I hardly call nothing.

[Jaid314]

just a thought, but i'd put cold as your secondary damage type. yeah, you're not gonna murder the abbot, but honestly, the guy isn't that tough, i used to nuke him with unboosted disintegrate before anyways, and on top of that... you already have an additional damage type that hits danged near everything: sonic. always remember that your sonic damage is boosted by your storm enhancements, which means you can actually do some damage with those sonic spells.

pick up greater shout as one of your level 8 spells (not like there's a ton of competition - honestly, you've got trap the soul as one of your picks, greater shout is at least as good as that) and you should (in theory) be able to damage liches and indeed pretty much everything that is immune to other elements iirc. and, as an added bonus, it's an evocation-based CC spell, meaning that while you're killing stuff you're also keeping it from killing you. obviously, it isn't as damaging as you might wish, but it's still something (and can replace both magic missile and force missile with roughly equivalent-damage sonic spells, that are also generally speaking just flat out superior)

also, ditch flesh to stone - it's useless on an air savant. not only will you not be able to breach spell resistance because of your lower caster level, you'll also have a lower save from it that likely won't effect anything you really care about.

[soulaeon]

In one of the build thread, Greater Shout was tested and did not do so well. They said it had terrible aim.
The secondary Force line boosts Metor Swarm and a few other useful spells. A secondary Cold line would mean either take more than Snow Storm and Polar Ray, or boost only those two spells, which seems wasteful. If he's just learning, the Force line would be better because it involves less swapping.
They both probably work well, but I took Force for the mentioned reasons, and use Meteor Swarm instead of Disintegrate.

[Jaid314]

In one of the build thread, Greater Shout was tested and did not do so well. They said it had terrible aim.
The secondary Force line boosts Metor Swarm and a few other useful spells. A secondary Cold line would mean either take more than Snow Storm and Polar Ray, or boost only those two spells, which seems wasteful. If he's just learning, the Force line would be better because it involves less swapping.
They both probably work well, but I took Force for the mentioned reasons, and use Meteor Swarm instead of Disintegrate.

he "needs" force damage for one fight in the entire game if he takes electric and cold. the main challenge of that fight is actually getting to the point where you can kill the abbot, actually killing him is pretty much a cakewalk (unless the abbot's reported significant HP upgrade remains permanently). once upon a time, there was no such things as kinetic enhancements. there was force/repair, and it didn't work on untyped. disintegrate with no enhancement line was enough back then, and it's still enough now.

[broolthebeast]

opinion from an air savant. ignore using a second damage line and put some points into the repair line. not that its a problem without it, just makes things easier in end game runs where you are looked at to recon a tank. 95% of the mobs in the game you can kill with your lb/loop/eladars. Everything else, the melee's can handle just fine.

[Dirichlet]

Intellect is not retroactive, so unless one needs lots of action points and has all those point there at an early level, it does even less nothing than dexterity

Sorry, what?

[stille_nacht]

dexterity does nothing for you, drop it to 10, raise something else.

cold is a better secondary IMO (polar ray, niac's biting cold being especially awesome), however, if you like force more, that is a playstyle choice.

spell list probably needs a bit of work :/, but youll want to ask another electric savant.

[soulaeon]

Sorry, what?

You dont get any skill points if you raise your intellect at level 20. He would have to Lesser Reinacrnate to get them. If that was not why you suggested it, then I would like to know how intellect is useful at all.

[Jaid314]

opinion from an air savant. ignore using a second damage line and put some points into the repair line. not that its a problem without it, just makes things easier in end game runs where you are looked at to recon a tank. 95% of the mobs in the game you can kill with your lb/loop/eladars. Everything else, the melee's can handle just fine.

no need. you can do just fine with a superior mending clicky.

in fact, i wouldn't even recommend more than a single point for a warforged sorcerer. it's just not that important.

[Espario]

dexterity does nothing for you, drop it to 10, raise something else.

cold is a better secondary IMO (polar ray, niac's biting cold being especially awesome), however, if you like force more, that is a playstyle choice.

spell list probably needs a bit of work :/, but youll want to ask another electric savant.

haha, the spell list was half-@$$ picked. its just there. i know what spells are good. and i like force spells better then cold. less resistance and auto-ghost touch effect. plus. they face no dr when hitting undead. fire wall is like only fire spell on ther eatm. its just temporary. for lower lvl undead quests. will be switched out. flesh to stone i could care less bout. its just there aswell. and for force of personality. its a useful feat. seeing as a sorc has no wis. and will saves are more useful then you think.. an casters weakness is being stoped by enchantment spells. lol. if you get swarmed as a caster, you die pretty much. SQUUIUSH!

[Jaid314]

all spells have auto ghost touch effect, actually (at least in DDO - in pen and paper, not so much).

[Afterone]

Hi, I haven't played for about a year so I find this thread to be very helpful in getting back on my feet and grinding the end game dungeons again. So far, I've changed my enhancements to the air savant with some points in force. Luckily I was able to do the dragontouched quest to get a free feat change token in order to unlock air savant 2.

I know you said you know which spells to pick up, but I'm still a little lost as to which ones you would pick up with the air/force combo. Can you list the spells you would use up to level 20?

Right now I have the following spells in my book, because I haven't changed them out yet:
Lvl 1
Charm Person, Jump, Magic Missile, Master's Touch

Lvl 2
Blur, Knock, Ooze Puppet, Resist Energy

Lvl 3
Displacement, Fireball, Haste, Rage

Lvl 4
Dimension Door, Fire Shield, Stone Skin, Firewall

Lvl 5
Break Enchantment, Cone of Cold, Protection from Elements, Teleport

Lvl 6
Disintegrate, Flesh to Stone, Greater Heroism

Lvl 7
Finger of Death, Otto's Sphere of Dancing, Waves of Exhaustion

Lvl 8
Incendiary Cloud, Polar Ray, Sunburst

Lvl 9
Energy Drain, Mass Hold Monster, Wail of the Banshee

[soulaeon]

I know you said you know which spells to pick up, but I'm still a little lost as to which ones you would pick up with the air/force combo. Can you list the spells you would use up to level 20?

Ice Storm, Disintegrate, Meteor Swarm. Possibly other spells like Banishment or FOD, but not too sure, if someone could confirm.
I chose this combination so that I would not need Disintegrate, and could still use Ice Storm and Meteor Swarm with their full effects, and because the force line affects the Arcane Initiate ability that still use a lot.

Right now I have the following spells in my book, because I haven't changed them out yet:
Lvl 1
Charm Person, Jump, Magic Missile, Master's Touch

Lvl 2
Blur, Knock, Ooze Puppet, Resist Energy

Lvl 3
Displacement, Fireball, Haste, Rage

Lvl 4
Dimension Door, Fire Shield, Stone Skin, Firewall

Lvl 5
Break Enchantment, Cone of Cold, Protection from Elements, Teleport

Lvl 6
Disintegrate, Flesh to Stone, Greater Heroism

Lvl 7
Finger of Death, Otto's Sphere of Dancing, Waves of Exhaustion

Lvl 8
Incendiary Cloud, Polar Ray, Sunburst

Lvl 9
Energy Drain, Mass Hold Monster, Wail of the Banshee

Dont know which specialization you want, so we cant comment on the elemtal spells.
Change Charm Person to Protection from Evil, and change Magic Missile to either Expedicious Retreat, Shield or Night Shield. You could also scroll Master's Touch.
Change Sunburst to Otto's Irrisistable Dance. Incendiary Cloud does not seem to have any practical purpose any more; Summon Monster 8 is often picked because the Air Elemental can be very useful.

[orbbital]

Here is an air savant's speech who has used several blood of dragon to swap between air savant ice secondary/ air savant force secondary.

Biting Cold is yes an awesome spell. You could find it often with your electric surge to give a readily huge dps and dp(mana) now, which have no save. The advantage for taking ice secondary is to help you boost your Polar ray and biting cold. However, let's see the case in divine punishment. Several clerics just swap in their new divine punishment without putting any action point investment on light damage. These divine punishments still work well. So here I assume that Biting Cold still works nice even without enhancement lines.

However, you would like to have meteor swarm for some constantly high damage too. Polar ray gives 20d3+60 at caster lv 20. Meteor swarm gives 8d3+24 x4 = 32d3+48 (assume mob doesnt have resist or not evading). It looks like meteor swarm is a better spell to be boosted. Also the meteor swarm is an AOE effect, plus rarely but not never, you will find its projectile character useful. Disintegrate is another nice thing. I could crit abbot with disintegrate at around 3000, which could also be dps-ed with meteor swarm in situ, giving you a very nice dps on Abbot and ofc not bad on others, except demon queen.

As a solution to both mentioned issues my sorcerer yes gets her meteor swarm, disintegrate and ice storm with force enhancement line, but at the same moment she is carrying her unboosted biting cold and polar ray. it just works averagely well at all scenario. At least now she won't find any place that she is handicapped since enemy is immune to cold, nor too tough to be taken down with meteors.

Well there is some comment on the feats too. Yes sorcerer ought to have a high will save. However, what really depends on will save are like hold monster, which mosts are easily ignored with your freedom of movement. This is why freedom of movement is valuable in divine spell list. try out other feats like enchantment focus to boost your mass hold rather.

Extend spell is also changable too. what really depends on your extend spell are haste and displacement. other buffs are mostly last 20 minutes long. extend was good because it also extends offensive spell. Now its only use is to make you feel like happen less often when ppl shouting in mic crazy asking for just a haste, and save your tiny 15 sp for your second half period of extended haste. It might be critical for pale masters but not you, a sorcerer who grants by class a huge mana pool. So, my comment is, GSF: Enchantment. If you can, do some CC too in some easier epic quests.

Well as for the spell list, i didnt study yours deeply but I'll just list some useful one:

For your CC part:
Crushing Despair- -5 will debuff
Mass Hold, Otto sphere, Irresistable dance - need not to say

insta death spell:
circle of death- another aoe insta death that you can even target on a ground! only draw back is one more save roll
FoD
Enervation/ Energy drain

I would like to scroll most buffs like greater heroism and fire shield, so to free up some spell slots.

[jojje_b]

go halfling instead of drow!

[Afterone]

Thanks for the spell list it has helped. Sorry, didn't mention which specialization I chose, because I chose the same one that the OP did. I swapped out greater spell pen for Evocation.