Is my build viable? Solo able 13 rogue/ 6monk / 1 Fighter

[xBoN3SaWx]

Hi. This is my first attempt at using the planner, and I'm hoping I came up with something viable. I was looking to build a solo/small party toon. The idea is to step off the veteran ship as a 32-point 1/rogue /3monk, and progress to level 6 monk. From there, I want to work my way up to Assassin II, but be able to respec to Shintao I depending on the party. I am slightly concerned that my BAB and HP may not be up to snuff. My highest toon so far was a lvl 10 rogue, so I am not too familiar with endgame equipment and mechanics.

The enhancements are just an idea of what I would like, as im not sure what stances I will be using or what +ability gear I will be using.
One question I have for the forum is; does the chance of double strike from wind stance stack with the rogue oppurtunist feat?

Thanks all!

Edit: One last thing, Maybe I could take out some of my feats like Imp Feint, Imp trip, second toughness, and squeeze in Zen Archery and some bow feats to make use of a AA respec? That way I can have 3 different ways to play this toon.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.09.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

BoogeyMan 
Level 20 Lawful Good Half-Elf Male
(1 Fighter \ 6 Monk \ 13 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 260
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 16
Will: 11

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             15                    22
Dexterity            15                    17
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence         13                    15
Wisdom               13                    15
Charisma              8                    10

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
Balance               6                 20                   20
Bluff                 2                 15                   15
Concentration         2                  7                    7
Diplomacy             1                 14                   14
Disable Device        5                 25                   25
Haggle               -1                  0                    0
Heal                  1                  2                    2
Hide                  6                 26                   26
Intimidate           -1                  0                    0
Jump                  4                 12                   12
Listen                1                  2                    2
Move Silently         6                 26                   26
Open Lock             6                  7                    7
Perform              n/a                n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                  2                    2
Search                5                 25                   25
Spot                  1                 16                   16
Swim                  2                  6                    6
Tumble                3                  4                    4
Use Magic Device      3                 23                   23

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Cleric
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Stunning Fist


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 4 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 5 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light


Level 6 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise


Level 7 (Monk)


Level 8 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Improved Trip


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Feint
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Rogue)


Level 11 (Rogue)


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 13 (Rogue)


Level 14 (Rogue)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 17 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 19 (Rogue)


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion

[mahiro37]

That level split is identical to the Ugly Stick build that I use.

I didn't compare the feats and such, but yes, the level split works nicely.

Mine is currently 8rog/6mnk/1ftr and I'm loving it.

[xBoN3SaWx]

That level split is identical to the Ugly Stick build that I use.

I didn't compare the feats and such, but yes, the level split works nicely.

Mine is currently 8rog/6mnk/1ftr and I'm loving it.

I saw that build too. I like it, its just not what I want. I went with the TWF line, light path monk, and assassin PrE line. Its sort of the polar opposite of the Big Ugly Stick, which uses THF, dark monk, acrobat.
Anyway, I updated the planner to display a TL;DR version without the automatic feats, enhancements or skill raises.

[Horkrux]

looks pretty solid, except for a few things.

First thing, Why CE? If you are putting level ups into strength and aren't going dex based your AC will probably not be high enough to mean anything.. So I'd drop that one fit in a PA. Secondly I'd also drop Improved trip and add in weapon focus bludgeon/toughness.

are you using handwraps? If so you need less points in balance and more in concentration. More concentration = Ki

you are raising hide, and move silently which should NOT be raised over open lock, sear, and disable device. You would be a very poor rogue. + the exp you get from doing traps is nice and will help with leveling.

I would personally drop wisdom and put more points into con/str
So all in all pretty good, just a few kinks.

[Feithlin]

First thing, Why CE? If you are putting level ups into strength and aren't going dex based your AC will probably not be high enough to mean anything.. So I'd drop that one fit in a PA. Secondly I'd also drop Improved trip and add in weapon focus bludgeon/toughness.

CE is probably used as the requirement for shintao, and it's probably the more useful of all the possible feats. It won't be very useful in end game but can be very useful while leveling.

[AtomicMew]

I'm not a fan of cleric dill, especially on a character that has access to max ranks of UMD. Human for an extra feat or dwarf or WF for tactics enhancements would be better.

If you want to play around with lots of different active combat feats, quick draw is a must. With stunning fist, you don't need both trip and feint. I would drop both, actually and replace with quickdraw and stunning blow. Trip's DC is added to by vertigo weapons, whereas SF and SB are both added to by stunning weapons, so you wouldn't need messy weapon swaps to maximize your DCs.

[xBoN3SaWx]

looks pretty solid, except for a few things.

First thing, Why CE? If you are putting level ups into strength and aren't going dex based your AC will probably not be high enough to mean anything.. So I'd drop that one fit in a PA. Secondly I'd also drop Improved trip and add in weapon focus bludgeon/toughness.

are you using handwraps? If so you need less points in balance and more in concentration. More concentration = Ki

you are raising hide, and move silently which should NOT be raised over open lock, sear, and disable device. You would be a very poor rogue. + the exp you get from doing traps is nice and will help with leveling.

I would personally drop wisdom and put more points into con/str
So all in all pretty good, just a few kinks.

-I took CE as a prerequisite for Improved Trip and Improved Feint. I'm not marrried to Improved trip, but I could really see Improved Feint being useful when going solo. If I understand correctly, on a success, it gives you 6 seconds of SA on the affected target. If I did drop CE, I could also drop INT to a 12 and up WIS to 14. Could open up some possabilities..
-I took WF:Bludgeon at level 3, and Toughness at level 1 and 18 (I took it again at 18 because I couldnt figure out what else I wanted).
-Yes on the handwraps. Point taken on concentration over balance.
-As far as Rogue skills... open lock and spot were sacrificed in order to keep Hide, Move Silently, Search, DD, and UMD maxed. The only time I am raising Hide and Move Silently over the others is during my monk levels in order to prevent cross class training. Also, I envision this toon as being an Assassin at heart. Sneaking around in the shadows, Assassinating, laying traps, but able to throw down... If he has too.
- WIS 13 is the minimum for Cleric Dilly

CE is probably used as the requirement for shintao, and it's probably the more useful of all the possible feats. It won't be very useful in end game but can be very useful while leveling.

Right.

I'm not a fan of cleric dill, especially on a character that has access to max ranks of UMD. Human for an extra feat or dwarf or WF for tactics enhancements would be better.

If you want to play around with lots of different active combat feats, quick draw is a must. With stunning fist, you don't need both trip and feint. I would drop both, actually and replace with quickdraw and stunning blow. Trip's DC is added to by vertigo weapons, whereas SF and SB are both added to by stunning weapons, so you wouldn't need messy weapon swaps to maximize your DCs.

-I'm not a fan of overlapping abilities either. I'm actually toying with the idea of dumping UMD... as I think the cleric dilly will keep my Healing/buffing needs met, between spells and access to divine scrolls/wands.
-Quick draw sounds interesting, I just dont know yet how much swapping I will be doing.
-My original idea had spring attack worked in, in place of Imp Feint, Imp trip. I scrapped the idea as it required two useless feats (dodge,mobility) as prereqs.

EDIT: Quick Draw may be a keeper, as my ranged weapon of choice will be Shurikens. Is this the Feat that speeds up the animation of Haste boost?

[Tinco]

Just a quick note: Full ranks of bluff are a huge, huge asset to sneak-based toons that can't rely on Radiance II weaponry because it's quite hard to sneak in a useful bluff item (there are not many around actually). Bluff alone enables sneak attacks, I'm not too familiar with improved feint though in terms of substitution of the bluff skill.

Trip is not very good on rogue-builds because they lack the huge strength bonuses Kensei and Barbs get. Plus you need another set of vertigo-handwraps which will basically require you to take Quick Draw to get your cc done in reasonable amounts of time. Same sans the weapon switch applies to Stunning Blow, too.

The split itself is my little precious most favorite melee build in DDO (aside from that one level fighter where I prefer ranger) but may I ask why you go light monk? I found Ninja Spy I to be THE reason to go 6 levels monk because Shadow Fade is that good and +1d6 sneak really complements your damage.

tl;dr: slim your combat options a bit and concentrate on the ones you really want to keep. Stunning Fist has a very low cooldown, so one other means of cc/sneak-enabling should be sufficient. Oh, and go dark

[xBoN3SaWx]

Just a quick note: Full ranks of bluff are a huge, huge asset to sneak-based toons that can't rely on Radiance II weaponry because it's quite hard to sneak in a useful bluff item (there are not many around actually). Bluff alone enables sneak attacks, I'm not too familiar with improved feint though in terms of substitution of the bluff skill.

Trip is not very good on rogue-builds because they lack the huge strength bonuses Kensei and Barbs get. Plus you need another set of vertigo-handwraps which will basically require you to take Quick Draw to get your cc done in reasonable amounts of time. Same sans the weapon switch applies to Stunning Blow, too.

The split itself is my little precious most favorite melee build in DDO (aside from that one level fighter where I prefer ranger) but may I ask why you go light monk? I found Ninja Spy I to be THE reason to go 6 levels monk because Shadow Fade is that good and +1d6 sneak really complements your damage.

tl;dr: slim your combat options a bit and concentrate on the ones you really want to keep. Stunning Fist has a very low cooldown, so one other means of cc/sneak-enabling should be sufficient. Oh, and go dark

-I -assume- that Feint does not need to use a seperate animation to bluff the target, as the description says it is an attack that also bluffs.

-I will update the build later. Imp Trip out, Quickdraw in. You guys make good points.

- I went light monk, because after I get Assassin II, I will be using that PrE most of the time. I believe that I will do better against undead with light monk enhancements. If I'm specced for Shintao, it will be because I'm in a party, and can offer better support with some of the light finishers. I could be convinced to go dark.

[Arlathen]

Does the level split work?

Well, I'm enjoing my Dragonmarked Elf Thief-Acrobat/Ninja Spy very much, thank you

[krisz93]

How about this one? It has maximized dragonmarks, CE and Improved Feint, fair AC for soloing, high skills, strong SA and viable Assassinate. Uses (Epic) Midnight's Greetings in both hands. NiS seemed to be a better choice as you can already heal, makes you sneakier and Shadow Fade is awesome.

Tell me if you find any mistakes, threw this up in 10 minutes

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.9.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Neutral Halfling Male
(6 Monk \ 13 Rogue \ 1 Wizard) 
Hit Points: 272
Spell Points: 180 
BAB: 13\13\18\23
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 19
Will: 11

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength              6                     6
Dexterity            16                    20
Constitution         16                    18
Intelligence         18                    20
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma              8                     8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               7                    26
Bluff                 3                    26
Concentration         3                    27
Diplomacy             3                     7
Disable Device        8                    25
Haggle               -1                     0
Heal                 -1                     1
Hide                  7                    37
Intimidate            3                    22
Jump                  0                     4
Listen               -1                     1
Move Silently         7                    33
Open Lock             7                    20
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair                4                     6
Search                8                    24
Spot                  3                    22
Swim                 -2                    -2
Tumble                5                     9
Use Magic Device      3                    22

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 3 (Monk) At Lv20 replace WF with CE, and get the greater DM at Lv9.
Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Healing
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Weapon Finesse


Level 4 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Maximize Spell


Level 5 (Rogue)


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Lesser Dragonmark of Healing


Level 7 (Rogue)


Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: INT


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise


Level 10 (Rogue)


Level 11 (Rogue)


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: INT
Feat: (Selected) Improved Feint


Level 13 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist


Level 14 (Rogue)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Defensive Roll


Level 17 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness


Level 18 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 19 (Monk)


Level 20 (Monk)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use I
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use II
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use III
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use IV
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning II
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning III
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning IV
Enhancement: Halfling Guile I
Enhancement: Halfling Guile II
Enhancement: Halfling Guile III
Enhancement: Halfling Guile IV
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy I
Enhancement: Winter's Touch
Enhancement: Adept of Wind
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
Enhancement: Improved Hide I
Enhancement: Improved Hide II
Enhancement: Improved Jump I
Enhancement: Improved Jump II
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently I
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently II
Enhancement: Improved Tumble I
Enhancement: Improved Tumble II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I

[Rusty_Can]

I was looking to build a solo/small party toon. [...] My highest toon so far was a lvl 10 rogue, so I am not too familiar with endgame equipment and mechanics.

Acrobat II (Immunity to Knockdown, +10% movement speed, stacking with +10% movement speed provided my 6 monk levels) + Ninja Spy I (+1d6 sneak-attack damage, Shadow Fade) provide way better survivability than Assassin II + Shintao I; moreover, Assassinate, provided by Assassin II, won't work that great, since its DC takes into account your rogue levels.

One question I have for the forum is; does the chance of double strike from wind stance stack with the rogue oppurtunist feat?

Afaik, yes.

Edit: One last thing, Maybe I could take out some of my feats like Imp Feint, Imp trip, second toughness, and squeeze in Zen Archery and some bow feats to make use of a AA respec? That way I can have 3 different ways to play this toon.

Arcane Archer PrE requires some form of spell-casting capability and your character doesn't have a blue bar.

Moreover, in order to be effective, ranged characters would need Rapid Shot, Manyshot (requires 17 DEX), Bow Strength and, ideally, Precise Shot and Improved Precise Shot (they require 19 DEX). If you wanna stay centered while ranging, you would need Zen Archery.

That's a bucketload of feats.....

For situational ranged capability, 6 ranger levels (which provide Bow Strength, Rapid Shot, Manyshot, along with TWF and ITWF) work great .

-I'm not a fan of overlapping abilities either. I'm actually toying with the idea of dumping UMD...

Don't.

[Tinco]

How about this one? It has maximized dragonmarks, CE and Improved Feint, fair AC for soloing, high skills, strong SA and viable Assassinate. Uses (Epic) Midnight's Greetings in both hands. NiS seemed to be a better choice as you can already heal, makes you sneakier and Shadow Fade is awesome.

Tell me if you find any mistakes, threw this up in 10 minutes

If you really want an Assassinator, just go Rogue 20 for the DC. The build proposed here has other strengths and it's basically impossible to get a great assassinate and stunning fist dc at the same time (base stats, level split, etc.). And I strongly oppose the idea building any melee character with 6 base strength. Carrying capacity, ray of enfeeblement, horribly limited weapon choice and pretty bad options when facing red/purple-named mobs with DR are problems you have to solve.


@Acrobat Idea: That's an option but your enhancements will be more than tight if you opt for acrobat up to the point where you have to forfeit really useful stuff. [EDIT] This is (only?) true and tested for halflings by myself.

[Dirichlet]

-I -assume- that Feint does not need to use a seperate animation to bluff the target, as the description says it is an attack that also bluffs.

It doesn't work quite how you'd think. It has an animation, but it looks like an attack. It's not an attack though; it doesn't do any damage. There's a noticeable delay before your attacks begin again also. However, it has a seperate (and much shorter) cooldown to Bluff, and has an area of effect (where Bluff only affects a single target). Bluff has range where Feint doesn't. So they have slightly different uses, which complement each other, and you can cycle between them to keep a mob Bluffed for longer. Feint is good, but it's a bit... clunky. You might not like it.

BTW, a little trick with using Bluff: if you use a tactical feat (such as Trip) straight after it you'll cut short the Bluff animation and considerably reduce the time before your next attack. I use Hamstring for this, but Trip is actually better due to the shorter animation. Press the buttons one after the other almost like you're pressing them together and you won't see any Bluff animation at all; you'll just do a Trip and get a sneak attack off of it. This doesn't work with Feint, as in, you can't Trip directly after a Feint. You can, bemusingly, Feint directly after a Bluff, or even Feint directly after an Intimidate (giving you a threat buff and a threat debuff simultaneously).

I have pretty much the same build (as in same split, and I took Combat Expertise and Improved Feint with spare feats), only with Acrobat / Ninja Spy, like others have said. I expect an Assassin version would be very similar in performance. Handwraps go well with sneak attacks. I just prefer sticks because... well sticks are cool. I would very much recommend Ninja Spy though. Also, take Power Attack. There's nothing wrong with having Combat Expertise and Power Attack. I get a lot of use out of both situationally.

[xBoN3SaWx]

@rust_can You make a good point about the DC problem, especially since I won't get Assassin II until I hit level 17. It will just be too little, too late.

@Dirichlet Thanks for the info about the Feint feat. It still sounds like something I could work into the build I want.

I think I'm going to give up on the Assassin theme for this level split. And instead go Acrobat II / dark monk with handwraps.

[Thoradin]

Possibly go finese and shortswords with ninja assassinI from monk you can remain centered and look into wind stance for increased movement, dex(to hit/reflex,ac), and increased attack rate (with 2 weapons and sneak attack)

Not saying "better" just saying you might look at it.