Free crafting reminder, and a question...

[Persiflage]

Just to remind you, Robobjorn is still crafting for free on Khyber (although small donations are always appreciated, they're not necessary! ), just follow the link in my signature. I can do everything on the list.

But something's puzzling me greatly. Why do people keep asking for Holy Silver Lawful Outsider Bane? Why not Evil Outsider Bane? I assume I'm missing something... I tried to have this conversation with a customer last night, but she said her guildies were telling her (whilst we were talking) that her that Lawful bane was "a better boss beater" and "broke boss DR" while Evil didn't. What on earth is that all about?

Firstly, the Bane portion of a weapon has nothing to do with DR, as I'm sure everyone here knows: that's taken care of by the Holy/Silver portion of the weapon. Secondly, all the raid bosses are Evil (aren't they?), so Evil Outsider Bane will do just as much damage as Lawful against the bosses. Finally - and this is the key point for me - not all the trash in Shavarath is Lawful (trolls, trogs and whatnot), while it IS almost universally evil, the odd construct aside.

OK, for non-devils, silver won't be helping you break DR but if you don't want to switch weapon sets all the time, surely Evil Outsider Bane is better? It works against all the Devils and will help to compensate (via additional damage) for a lack of cold iron DR breaking vs. the mostly-chaotic Demons... won't it?

I tried to explain all this last night, but the response I got back was "I want boss-beaters right now, maybe you could make me Evil bane another time", and my puzzlement levels went through the roof. So, please, enlighten me, why is Lawful bane better? I've had variations on the theme of this conversation with half a dozen people now so there has to be a flaw in my logic somewhere, but I can't tell what. As far as I can tell, Evil bane works exactly the same against all bosses and is effective (or at least, *more* effective) against a much greater proportion of the trash; so, please, what am I missing?!

[Yaga_Nub]

Evil outsider is generally better because it affects ALL evil outsiders. The bane isn't breaking the DR, it's the holy effect and silver that is breaking DR. The bane effect is just adding to the damage. If I was able to have you crafting for me, I'd definitely have you make me Evil outsider bane.

[Persiflage]

Evil outsider is generally better because it affects ALL evil outsiders. The bane isn't breaking the DR, it's the holy effect and silver that is breaking DR. The bane effect is just adding to the damage. If I was able to have you crafting for me, I'd definitely have you make me Evil outsider bane.

That's exactly what I've been telling people, but they just won't buy it! Maybe they're suspicious of someone offering to craft for free - like there's some sort of cunning scheme going on whereby I relieve them of their hard-earned by talking them into getting Evil bane instead of Lawful or something - but logic seems to have no effect whatsoever...

I don't even really know why it bothers me, other than that I hate to see people spending X amount on something good when they could have got something better. Professional integrity is a curse; I'd feel bad if I didn't warn them and then end up feeling bad anyway when they don't listen

I always end up by saying "No worries! They're your materials and you can have what you like!" but unbeknownst to the majority, my light-hearted tone is belied by the keyboard imprints on my forehead...

[English_Warrior]

They probably don't know what they are talking about.

I assume there is confusion because when the crafting limit was 75 you could only craft GLOB and not GEOB...so everyone was making the GLOB as their specialized boss beaters....these guys probably saw those threads where people had made +4 Holy Silver GLOB and thought that was the optimal choice.

[Standal]

LOB is lower crafting level. There's no reason to make it if you can make EOB, but I bet you will see more LOB specifically for devils. Most of the EOB/COB level crafters have probably made a Holy or Axiomatic CI of COB also. Until today the only issue has been getting a proper blank, the essences were pretty trivial.

[Rumbaar]

Darn, wish I'd heard of your services before 10.1.

But yes, it's strange request not to go for Evil Outsider.

[Gkar]

They probably don't know what they are talking about.

I assume there is confusion because when the crafting limit was 75 you could only craft GLOB and not GEOB...so everyone was making the GLOB as their specialized boss beaters....these guys probably saw those threads where people had made +4 Holy Silver GLOB and thought that was the optimal choice.

Yeah, I think this is it. Even now L is available at a lower level than E so so people craft LOB or GLOB just because they can get it done first. Others then ask for that because they've seen people branging about the lawful version.

If you have the levels to caft it, evil does win out over lawful as a better choice (although at this point I'm not sure how many non lawful, evil outsiders there are in the game that need a silver bypass)

The big question after today that may decide which you craft will be which has the more idiodic rare item...

[Rumbaar]

The big question after today that may decide which you craft will be which has the more idiodic rare item...

They've removed some unbound shards, so they can't even be made anymore.

I'm not sure what, but they did say some of the powerful ones.

[Persiflage]

If you have the levels to caft it, evil does win out over lawful as a better choice (although at this point I'm not sure how many non lawful, evil outsiders there are in the game that need a silver bypass)

Well, quite so, but of course even if the silver isn't overcoming DR, you're still getting more damage from Evil bane than with Lawful. I think English_Warrior has the right of it.

Incidentally E_W, love the sig... I'm going to make shameless use of "too ugly to move" in tonight's PnP session

[English_Warrior]

Incidentally E_W, love the sig... I'm going to make shameless use of "too ugly to move" in tonight's PnP session

Glad you like it...but I take no credit, it's that cheesehead Chai who said it...I just stole it and used it without permission.

[Alternative]

Finally - and this is the key point for me - not all the trash in Shavarath is Lawful (trolls, trogs and whatnot), while it IS almost universally evil, the odd construct aside.

But why would you use any Outsider Bane against trolls (giants) or troglodytes (reptilians)? There is no outsider in the game that requires silver and isn't lawful at the same time, so making a silver EOB is pointless but of course doesn't hurt either, if you got high enough crafting level. And to beat on demons people will generally make a separate cold iron weapon or set.

+1 for free crafting anyhow

[Persiflage]

But why would you use any Outsider Bane against trolls (giants) or troglodytes (reptilians)? There is no outsider in the game that requires silver and isn't lawful at the same time, so making a silver EOB is pointless but of course doesn't hurt either, if you got high enough crafting level. And to beat on demons people will generally make a separate cold iron weapon or set.

+1 for free crafting anyhow

Fiend-blood trolls and trogs are Outsiders, which is why they can be banished from the Shav side of the Vale. Presumably they're still Outsiders in Shavarath proper...?

EDIT: And of course, you still need to plough through the Vale for greensteel lootz regardless of what level you are, so Evil Outsider bane is more useful than Lawful there. And of course there's the odd group of Jariliths (Chaotic) scattered hither and yon who have DR/Good. Future-proofing, too, is better with EOB (there are more Evil than Lawful outsiders in DnD, given that Lawful Evil is a subset of both), so unless there's a sudden influx of Inevitables into any new content, I feel safe preferring EOB to LOB

[Blank_Zero]

Might need you to craft me EoBs now... Wasn't aware that they had made it to unbound lol.

We will talk after this patch is done to see what the new requirements are, but if I can get EoB from you, that will work very nicely.

[noinfo]

But why would you use any Outsider Bane against trolls (giants) or troglodytes (reptilians)? There is no outsider in the game that requires silver and isn't lawful at the same time, so making a silver EOB is pointless but of course doesn't hurt either, if you got high enough crafting level. And to beat on demons people will generally make a separate cold iron weapon or set.

+1 for free crafting anyhow

Yeah but most things only need holy not cold iron as well. So they will still be taking full damage from that weapon and not needing the holy cold iron version. So in most cases a holy of EOB will break DR of most evil outsiders and be useful vs Devil bosses that need both Silver and Holy but not break vs Demon bosses that need holy and cold iron (DQ boss types only one isn't it?)

Edit: Still they do need something for those bosses but this would cut down the need to actually change weapon types in most situations

[Persiflage]

Might need you to craft me EoBs now... Wasn't aware that they had made it to unbound lol.

We will talk after this patch is done to see what the new requirements are, but if I can get EoB from you, that will work very nicely.

Well, it's done and I can still make 'em. Requires medium devil scales now. Because, you know, greensteel ingredients weren't expensive enough.

[Dr_Kyrgenstein]

Crafted me 2 x Lawful Outsider Bane shards within about 20 mins of original request - what a guy! +1 for you sir!

[Lithic]

Can't check now since i'm not in game, but aren't the lawfull/chaotic slightly cheaper to make in terms of essences and the special ingredients?

[Persiflage]

Can't check now since i'm not in game, but aren't the lawfull/chaotic slightly cheaper to make in terms of essences and the special ingredients?

Not so's you'd notice. Evil Bane requires 30 greater/32 lesser Good essences, Lawful requires 30/32 Chaos and Chaotic requires 30/32 Lawful. The only real difference comes with the peripheral ingredients: Evil = medium scales, Lawful = medium chain, Chaotic = medium arrowhead. Not much in it, all in all

[mademan77]

I hung out with Robobjorn in the crafting hall for a short while this morning and he was gracious enough to craft me two +4 holy kops of EOSB and a Holy greataxe of EOSB. He didn't charge me anything beyond the ingredients used and even took the time to teach me a few things about the ends and outs of the crafting system.

If you are looking to get something nice done look him up, he did a wonderful job and most importantly he's a good dude and it was a pleasure to make his aquaintance. So, if you are like me and have been collecting essenses for months but lack the dedication to actually lvl up your crafting skill, send him a tell on the forums here or in game and i'm sure he'd be more than happy to hook you up with some lovely toys.

[theboatman]

Keep in mind that Eob with holy will also work great against the quori in dreaming dark/etc.

To the op, the main reason that folks are so set on lob>eob has to do with bound crafting and mats. Glob takes a lot less valuable materials than Geob, since evil bane takes the same good essence that holy/burst needs. That's probably where the 'my guildie told me xyz' is coming from. But to reiterate, the information in this thread is valid and accurate, for someone not crafting personally, assuming the crafter can do the work for them, Evil outsider bane is better in every way than Lawful outsider bane.