Divines, Spellpoints, and Melee Expectations

[Habreno]

Note: I know they're technically called "Spellpoint potions" but "mana potions" is both quicker to type and still descriptive of the functionality.

If you've ever played a capped divine, I'm sure you've been told that you will need to drink a mana potion for a quest or raid. I'm not complaining about the potions themselves, but about the thought of melees expecting you to keep healing at whatever cost, including mana potions. While some melees are usually nice and donate mana potions back to you after the quest/raid, or in rare cases before the quest/raid even begins, most melees are not of that thinking. They personally don't care what you have to do to get them through the quest/raid, and will blacklist you for not doing "everything" to get through the quest/raid.

I play a divine, and have the thinking that it's MY choice what to use and what NOT to use. In an Elite Amrath quest, since I am a Cleric, you darn well better stay in my healing aura for healing between fights. Even if the quest takes longer because of waiting, it will be easier on everyone. I'm not going to ask you to drink CSW pots between fights; I have an aura ticking and will throw a burst when it's needed between fights. My turns come back; my spellpoints don't under most circumstances.

So now I ask of you capped Divines: What is your take on the "requirement" of mana potions? What is your take on the melees who don't care what it costs you to get the quest/raid done, they expect you to do it or else you'll be blacklisted? What is your take of the current end-game situation, where if you don't have mana potions you are pretty much considered "gimp"?

[KillEveryone]

If you are told you NEED to drink a SP pot, you NEED to tell them to give you a SP pot or you NEED to find a better group.

A good group doesn't NEED the divine to drink any SP pots.

[Franke]

They'll blacklist me? That's a relief.

[mute_mayhem]

I've got the opposite problem on my FvS'...people are constantly giving me potions when I really don't need them. I can't even remember the last time I had to use a potion on either of my Favored souls...If someone were to tell me to drink pots to keep a bad group up, I would just tell them to go **** themselves, and I'd solo the rest of the quest.

For some reason, melee's tend to think the group is all about them, that they are the most important part of the group, and the group will not succeed without them...Newsflash: You aint the most important, so stop trying to tell the divines/casters what to do!

[Quikster]

As a healer, I usually drink pots no matter what to pull the group through. I do this for several reasons. First, Im usually only running my healer if I need the completion or a shot at the end chest, OR if a guildie is in a similar situation. Second, my healers are all melee oriented, even the ones with max casting stats, so Im usually having fun and over healing


As a raid leader, I usually dont ever expect healers to use pots, with the exception of new content maybe. If things go pearshaped (which happens sometimes for whatever reason) I ask the healers if they have any pots, if not the group usually finds some for them, and I try to make a point of paying it back. As a raid leader, I invited the healer and other players, I laid out the strats, if something goes wrong I usually shoulder the burden. Usually guildies or others will help out, but I try to make sure that a healer doesnt leave with less pots then when we started. Sometimes a healer drops or I forget, but I would say 98% of the time I always payback any pots used.

I do expect healers to have scrolls however.

[azrael4h]

So now I ask of you capped Divines: What is your take on the "requirement" of mana potions? What is your take on the melees who don't care what it costs you to get the quest/raid done, they expect you to do it or else you'll be blacklisted? What is your take of the current end-game situation, where if you don't have mana potions you are pretty much considered "gimp"?

There is no requirement; they can either complete with me not using pots, or fail when I go find a better group.

To be fair, only a few, the same ones who are screaming and cursing any time a Cleric or FvS does anything but heal, or an arcane does anything but buff, that require that. Those are incompetent players, and shouldn't be grouped with any in case.

[Lyzern]

I usually keep stacks of wands and scrolls to keep everyone healed at all times (Pots are a waste at my level), but if they were to demand healing and tell me to use my resources, I wouldn't, it may be silly but it's a matter of principle, I don't demand them to use buff pots, if anything, I ask them to stay in range when I buff.

[PNellesen]

Having finally run a number of high-level raids, Epic content, etc., I can tell you that in a well-led and well organized group, with reasonably built and played characters (i.e., a "good" group), I almost NEVER have to drink a pot (ToD, VoD, Shroud, Epic Fens, Epic House P, Epic House K, etc.) If someone were to tell me at the beginning that Pot usage was "mandatory" if the quest went pear-shaped, I would politely thank them for their time and leave the group. On the other hand, if I'm given 2 or 3 pots at the beginning "just in case", and bad things happen, I will not hesitate to use them, and would feel guilty if I didn't. If I don't use them, I usually try to return them to whoever gave them to me (though 9/10 times I'm told to keep them)

As you say, it's MY decision on whether or not to use a pot, and the group dynamics play a significant role in whether or not I do. (If Harry's at 75% after Round 1 in Part 4, and 3 of the "tanks" are one-shot by a fireball after the first 3 seconds, I'm probably not going to bother drinking one )

[aristarchus1000]

If anyone says that, I'd consider being blacklisted a relief.

You don't need pots to get through any content, but as the healer you get to choose. If you don't want to waste time to run the content again, then, yes, I do drink pots so that I don't have deal with finding another group.

If people are nice and trying hard, then I might drink a pot.

If people are both Bad players AND being jerks... I either let them fail, or more likely let them die and solo the rest.

[taurean430]

They'll blacklist me? That's a relief.

This.

If I feel it's necessary I'll down a mneumonic. Pretty rare though that this even comes up. As far as joining a group that states that pots are required, they can sit and spin. The same raid will be up in a small time on my server without such a requirement. And I will run the content anyway... without going into wino mode due to the mistakes of others.

If I miss something or make a mistake, I will surely use one. If I feel the group is fine and we should complete, I'll shoulder the burden and down pots. If I am feeling experimental and want to see if I can save a TOD gone wrong I may drink a bunch of them.

Bottom line though... I choose when to use any pots I have. Unless you are handing them to me, forget it.

[Losercrew]

As someone who played only a cleric for my first year, I definitely gave my all healing. Now that I've switched to playing other types of characters, I definitely expect the healer in the party to give his all healing. During that year, being given pots was a rare occurrence, which is fine, I take pots from end reward lists and pull them in chests. So, even if people don't give you pots for your troubles, you should still be trying your hardest to keep the party alive, if that means you have to chug a pot or two, then thats what it means. // stop being so greedy

I can't even decide if any of that makes sense, stupid text blocks

[DoctorWhofan]

I PuG.

I carry wands, mana pots, scrolls, etc. for the worst case scenario. I RARELY have to usethem, even in a PuG.

I practice Mana Conservation.

As for paying me back, I generally don't accept stuff until the end of the party. I never ask for stuff either. If they pay me back, great! If not, oh well. I have been in plenty of parties where I used none and someone gives supplies or cash.

[Beld]

As someone who played only a cleric for my first year, I definitely gave my all healing. Now that I've switched to playing other types of characters, I definitely expect the healer in the party to give his all healing. During that year, being given pots was a rare occurrence, which is fine, I take pots from end reward lists and pull them in chests. So, even if people don't give you pots for your troubles, you should still be trying your hardest to keep the party alive, if that means you have to chug a pot or two, then thats what it means. // stop being so greedy

I can't even decide if any of that makes sense, stupid text blocks

I can't even begin to fathom how wrong this approach is...if it's a good group, or they are trying hard and drinking a pot or ten will get a completion...no problem, if I've got em, I brought them for a reason. First time I'm told I 'WILL' drink a pot, it will be a cold day in the sub, and they will be selling popsicles before I will drink one...and if it's said before or during the beginning of the quest, blacklist me, cause I'm gone and I will have that person(s) blacklisted anyway.

Using a blanket statement of, this is how I play so this is what I expect, is tantamount to telling others to only play your way, which boils back down to when you pay my sub/TP costs each and every month, then I will play my toon the way you expect me to play (when I actually log on, if you are paying and making me play and it's no fun, I won't log on )

I heal, fight, buff, strategize and bring just as much to the table as any other toon in the party (mostly, there are notable exceptions and when I run into those groups, I practice my piking ) and I expect nothing from anyone else, and if you don't like the way I play, easy, add me to your list and move on, I would do the same before I would tell you what to do and how to play.

/rant off

Sorry, had a couple of ehh, ahem, 'experiences' here lately that have soured my joy of playing my divines for a while and seeing this thread seems to have brought those feelings bubbling back up, again, sorry for the de-rail and please, continue

[Aashrym]

As someone who played only a cleric for my first year, I definitely gave my all healing. Now that I've switched to playing other types of characters, I definitely expect the healer in the party to give his all healing. During that year, being given pots was a rare occurrence, which is fine, I take pots from end reward lists and pull them in chests. So, even if people don't give you pots for your troubles, you should still be trying your hardest to keep the party alive, if that means you have to chug a pot or two, then thats what it means. // stop being so greedy

I can't even decide if any of that makes sense, stupid text blocks

As long as the melees are willing to contribute to their own health by chugging their own healing pots or using other self healing I have no objection to that.

I use wands and scrolls over SP pots tho.

[Antheal]

If you're such a bad group that you need me to use pots, then you'd better supply me those pots.

[NinetyNineTails]

I'd feel naked if I stepped into a quest without my stack of Heal scrolls and quiver of Cure Critical wands.

I also carry around stacks of Mnemonics, but they don't get used nearly as freely. Really, I should stop taking them as quest rewards.

[azrael4h]

I can't even begin to fathom how wrong this approach is...if it's a good group, or they are trying hard and drinking a pot or ten will get a completion...no problem, if I've got em, I brought them for a reason. First time I'm told I 'WILL' drink a pot, it will be a cold day in the sub, and they will be selling popsicles before I will drink one...and if it's said before or during the beginning of the quest, blacklist me, cause I'm gone and I will have that person(s) blacklisted anyway.

Using a blanket statement of, this is how I play so this is what I expect, is tantamount to telling others to only play your way, which boils back down to when you pay my sub/TP costs each and every month, then I will play my toon the way you expect me to play (when I actually log on, if you are paying and making me play and it's no fun, I won't log on )

I heal, fight, buff, strategize and bring just as much to the table as any other toon in the party (mostly, there are notable exceptions and when I run into those groups, I practice my piking ) and I expect nothing from anyone else, and if you don't like the way I play, easy, add me to your list and move on, I would do the same before I would tell you what to do and how to play.

/rant off

Sorry, had a couple of ehh, ahem, 'experiences' here lately that have soured my joy of playing my divines for a while and seeing this thread seems to have brought those feelings bubbling back up, again, sorry for the de-rail and please, continue

This. It is not the Cleric or FvS' job to keep a party alive at all costs. It is to complete the quest objectives with as little resource use as possible. Healing through stupid fails to meet that criteria and thus a good divine won't do it.

The only times I've drank pots are in instances where it became extremely laggy. Such as down in an elite VoD where my game essentially froze due to lag; I started spamming the hotkeys my masses were on. When I got back to a point of seeing what was going on, my bar was gone, but only two people died. I drank two pots then, and went back to beating on a pitfiend's tail while healing. Other than that it was an easy completion. VoD usually is for me, if I can manage to find a group that actually fills.

[gloopygloop]

I think that anyone that is brand new to healing a particular raid (or new to healing raids in general) should be willing to chug a pot or two because they're not going to be familiar with the pace of healing and they will end up throwing more heals than are required. I think that if the Cleric/FvS runs out of SP because they are spending SP more quickly needed, then it's the Cleric/FvS that should eat the cost.

On the other hand, after spending maybe 5 pots on the first three runs of a raid, the healer shouldn't need to spend any more pots again unless something bizarre happens.

I just look at pots in the first few attempts at a raid as a cost of doing business. My melees had to get Silver+Good weapons for the Shroud. My FvS had to spend a couple of pots to get used to the pace of healing.

I have no interest in spending pots every time I step into a raid, though. That's just a recipe for disaster.

[Gnorbert]

For me, being told I NEED to do something is the strongest motivation NOT to do that thing. I will generally use whatever resources at my disposal to ensure a successful completion... because that's fun for me. When it stops being fun, or I suddenly develop a keen interest in watching certain party members fail, then consumables usage stops.

We're all here to have fun... right?

[ceiswyn]

I'd feel naked if I stepped into a quest without my stack of Heal scrolls and quiver of Cure Critical wands.

I also carry around stacks of Mnemonics, but they don't get used nearly as freely. Really, I should stop taking them as quest rewards.

Same here. My cleric is definitely running in pot-profit

I will drink a pot or two if I think it will save the quest/raid. I won't throw pots on a losing proposition.

The last time I had to drink more pots than that was in ToD; I was running with a group of people, most of whom I'd run with before, and the tank was a WF. One of the other people checked with me beforehand that I had enough pots to consta-heal said tank when I couldn't use scrolls, and that I was OK with the group going for both bosses. It was my decision, and the group was willing to reimburse me; for that reason we went for both bosses and I burned ten pots. Had I been with a group that told me to use pots, I'd've let 'em wipe.

And feeling naked without my scroll stack is why I get Burdened with any reasonable amount of loot