Binding and attuning BTA items does not change item to BTC.

[KillEveryone]

Is this working as intended?

Just found out that binding a Carnifex at the stone of Change does not change BTA to BTC.

If it is, I'll be adding some rituals to some gear but I don't want to do this before I know this is working as intended.

[NinjaNeed]

I imagine thats a bug but would also like some more experienced players to comment.

[gloopygloop]

I imagine thats a bug but would also like some more experienced players to comment.

More experienced players have commented on this topic repeatedly over the course of a couple of years.

What would be really helpful would be if a senior developer could comment on whether it is WAI or not.


Edit: also, just to clarify, BtA items have never become BtC when you bind and attune them in the Stone of Change. Not ever since BtA items and the Stone of Change have existed together in the game.

[NinjaNeed]

Edit: also, just to clarify, BtA items have never become BtC when you bind and attune them in the Stone of Change. Not ever since BtA items and the Stone of Change have existed together in the game.

Woot, thanx for clarifying this.

[Gkar]

Woot, thanx for clarifying this.

HOWEVER, that doesn't mean its WAI, good chance it is not WAI, thus its subject to change and retroactive fixes at any time. The fact that it has never been confirmed as WAI after several years of this behavior and many requests for confirmation makes it appear it may in fact be a bug that qualifies as an exploit and thus they may not be talking because "we never talk about exploits".

So either exploit...or just lousy documentation/customer service...who knows.

The same debate happened when people could create festival frost + festival frost burst weapons at a fairly high cost and the extra part was retroactively fixed on existing weapons. So you attune that Carni, one day you might wake up to find it BtC on whatever character its on at that moment.

[gloopygloop]

HOWEVER, that doesn't mean its WAI, good chance it is not WAI, thus its subject to change and retroactive fixes at any time. The fact that it has never been confirmed as WAI after several years of this behavior and many requests for confirmation makes it appear it may in fact be a bug that qualifies as an exploit and thus they may not be talking because "we never talk about exploits".

They also don't talk about (or document) 99% of the other things in the game. I'm not saying that it is WAI. Just that I don't see any indication that it isn't WAI.

I will note that I only put the force damage ritual on my second Carnifex.

[Therigar]

In the case of Carnifex it isn't as if this is an exceedingly rare drop that you have to farm Delera's 100 times and hope for. If the worriers are correct and it eventually becomes BtC then just go run a dozen Delera's runs and get another one.

As to requests for clarification on WAI I think that's a bit silly. Turbine staff have better things to do than track down whether every little thing is WAI and reporting back to us about it.

My approach is to assume that if it is in the game that way it is WAI and that it remains WAI until Turbine changes it. Since Turbine is free at any time to change any aspect of the game -- a caveat they make and we all agree to whenever we play the game -- even if it is currently WAI that doesn't mean Turbine cannot change their mind at a later time.

Instead of spending all the effort fretting over things just go and put on the ritual if that +1 point of damage is so important to you and your ability to succeed in quests. Nevermind the fact that there are numerous other weapons that are superior to Carnifex at just about every character level -- something that this thread has already identified.

Lastly, as a general point if you have BtA gear that you want to put rituals onto but are worried because they are genuinely rare/hard to obtain -- then don't. Odds are that you're getting by w/o the rituals already so they are scarcely likely to matter one way or the other.

[KillEveryone]

In the case of Carnifex it isn't as if this is an exceedingly rare drop that you have to farm Delera's 100 times and hope for. If the worriers are correct and it eventually becomes BtC then just go run a dozen Delera's runs and get another one.

As to requests for clarification on WAI I think that's a bit silly. Turbine staff have better things to do than track down whether every little thing is WAI and reporting back to us about it.

My approach is to assume that if it is in the game that way it is WAI and that it remains WAI until Turbine changes it. Since Turbine is free at any time to change any aspect of the game -- a caveat they make and we all agree to whenever we play the game -- even if it is currently WAI that doesn't mean Turbine cannot change their mind at a later time.

Instead of spending all the effort fretting over things just go and put on the ritual if that +1 point of damage is so important to you and your ability to succeed in quests. Nevermind the fact that there are numerous other weapons that are superior to Carnifex at just about every character level -- something that this thread has already identified.

Lastly, as a general point if you have BtA gear that you want to put rituals onto but are worried because they are genuinely rare/hard to obtain -- then don't. Odds are that you're getting by w/o the rituals already so they are scarcely likely to matter one way or the other.

So, I basically should go ahead and do it even though if in the future it was declared an exploit and bans are handed out, I can say you said it was OK and I won't get banned.

Right.

I don't not think it is silly for a WAI clarification. It is a legitimate request.

[Therigar]

So, I basically should go ahead and do it even though if in the future it was declared an exploit and bans are handed out, I can say you said it was OK and I won't get banned.

Right.

I don't not think it is silly for a WAI clarification. It is a legitimate request.

Give even one example where this occurred that is even remotely similar to your concern. Turbine has never gone back and made a retro-active change and then handed out bans for things of this nature.

Bans for game exploits to avoid raid timers or quest objectives or to intentionally render mobs powerless. But for this type of thing where a device works one way that they eventually decide to change to something different -- never.

The fact that it has worked like it does for so long and that there is no "known issue" concerning how it works is enough confirmation that it is WAI for now. That it may or may not change in the future doesn't even merit comment since the entire game may or may not change in the future.

It is not a legitimate request. It is paranoia.

Might as well not eat food because it could be poisoned. Eating is just risk taking and we'll all be sorry the day we don't wake up because of it.

You are wrong. It is silly.

[KillEveryone]

Give even one example where this occurred that is even remotely similar to your concern. Turbine has never gone back and made a retro-active change and then handed out bans for things of this nature.

Bans for game exploits to avoid raid timers or quest objectives or to intentionally render mobs powerless. But for this type of thing where a device works one way that they eventually decide to change to something different -- never.

The fact that it has worked like it does for so long and that there is no "known issue" concerning how it works is enough confirmation that it is WAI for now. That it may or may not change in the future doesn't even merit comment since the entire game may or may not change in the future.

It is not a legitimate request. It is paranoia.

Might as well not eat food because it could be poisoned. Eating is just risk taking and we'll all be sorry the day we don't wake up because of it.

You are wrong. It is silly.

Prove it isn't a legitimate request.

If you just feel like trolling, go somewhere else please.

Face it, you are wrong and being trollish.

[Gkar]

They also don't talk about (or document) 99% of the other things in the game. I'm not saying that it is WAI. Just that I don't see any indication that it isn't WAI.

I will note that I only put the force damage ritual on my second Carnifex.

Agreed, which is what I basically said in my comment. And your strategy is also what I plan to do if my Carni every gets too much perma damage or if I ever pull a second

[gloopygloop]

Agreed, which is what I basically said in my comment. And your strategy is also what I plan to do if my Carni every gets too much perma damage or if I ever pull a second

I tend to just run the entire Delera's chain eight times instead of running part 1 once and then part 2 eight times. That means I have a few of every single end reward from the chain and I actually take renown as the chain reward when it is available.

I also don't get bored easily with repeated content. I even still enjoy Tangleroot.

[gloopygloop]

Prove it isn't a legitimate request.

If you just feel like trolling, go somewhere else please.

Face it, you are wrong and being trollish.

I do agree that Therigar's posts are written in a style that is slightly... confrontational. I do believe that he is correct in this case, however.

Turbine has "fixed" a fair number of things in the game that weren't working the way that Turbine wanted and they have never banned people for doing things that made sense at the time even if Turbine changed the way that they worked after the fact.

They've only banned people for things that are really blatant like [example deleted], [example deleted] or [having an account during October/November 2010, even if you're deployed overseas and haven't signed in for either of those two months...].

[Therigar]

I do agree that Therigar's posts are written in a style that is slightly... confrontational.

If I'm confrontational it is because the post I am responding to is confrontational. I believe that it is completely natural and acceptable to respond in kind.

For example, look at the post in this thread that I responded to by asking for evidence of Turbine ever giving out a ban for similar conduct -- ever. That post exhibits unwarranted concern and paranoia. Paranoia is unreasoned fear. Identifying such is not confrontation and it is not trolling. It is clarifying for everyone that there is no basis for the fear or irrational response.

Because the post I refer to was in response to one I made previously (in which I state that my opinion is that such concerns are silly) -- and because in replying the poster chooses to focus on that while expressing his unjustified fears -- it is natural and acceptable to illustrate why my opinion holds validity. In fact, the post I responded to in what you term a slightly "confrontational" way was itself a deliberate confrontation that raised the stakes in the discussion from "is this WAI" to "you will be banned." To change the discussion by introducing such an emotive concept -- especially in the absence of any type of proof -- is passively-aggressive confrontation.

You will be hard pressed to find posts by me that call out other posters or players for upsetting me in the game or that out of the blue just run off into insults or confrontations. The confrontations, when they occur, are begun by the other posters and reference to the confrontation is almost always quoted by me in my response. In the rare instances when I begin the confrontation you can be assured that there is a prior incident of some type that has my ire up.

[Therigar]

Carni every gets too much perma damage

This should not be possible unless you have a Carnifex that is not BtA. No bound item should ever take permanent damage -- whether it is BtC or BtA. That is an intentional characteristic of bound items.

[Eilyen]

It was intentional that the stone of change binding and rituals would not change a BtA item to BtC, it was stated as such by the devs. I think it was, around the time BtA was first added, but that was forever ago. (Mod 9ish, before unlimited)

Now that doesn't mean they can't change their minds, and but this part is not a bug. However one of the devs seemed to indicate that BtA items not changing to BtC with applying bound shards was not intended, and therefor if they change that, it seems likely the stone of change rituals will also get changed since it is probably using the same code.