XXX is overpowered

[gavijal]

Nope, about adult sites

[Machination]

It is human nature to whine. Those that refrain from whining are a step about the rest. Why whine about other people whining?

[ThePrisoner]

/Rant on

Ok, I am so sick and tired of people crying and whining because they think casters are overpowered. Every time someone cries, whines and complains, casters get nerfed. Well...

Let the flames BEGIN!!!!

I couldn't agree more. The nerf everyone but me threads are really sad. And sorry, but if someone has an alt belonging to the class they are requesting to be nerfed, they are clearly not in the majority. (Responding to a different comment in this thread)

Running to a mob only to swing through it's vapor in epics was a bit frustrating for my melees at first, I must admit, but in time I just accepted it as part of the game and came to appreciate the efficiency of it.
It takes a crazy kind of insecurity to want insta-killing nerfed in epics, because you would be, in essence, hurting your whole party, yourself included.

As for DOTS, be glad that boss fights are easier.

As for wings, they are good for soloing.
FVS are good for soloing. Knowing that, I made a FVS.
Seems better to take advantage of a powerful class instead of complaining about them and trying to get them nerfed, doesn't it?
Like, I don't know, put your barb on the shelf for a couple weeks and try something new.

I get excited when I see a class is getting a boost, whether it's from changes in game mechanics or changes to the actual class. I think "how am I going to take advantage of this and make it my own?"

Other people...not so much.

Those people disappoint me.

[arcticwolf666]

I couldn't agree more. The nerf everyone but me threads are really sad. And sorry, but if someone has an alt belonging to the class they are requesting to be nerfed, they are clearly not in the majority. (Responding to a different comment in this thread)

Running to a mob only to swing through it's vapor in epics was a bit frustrating for my melees at first, I must admit, but in time I just accepted it as part of the game and came to appreciate the efficiency of it.
It takes a crazy kind of insecurity to want insta-killing nerfed in epics, because you would be, in essence, hurting your whole party, yourself included.

As for DOTS, be glad that boss fights are easier.

As for wings, they are good for soloing.
FVS are good for soloing. Knowing that, I made a FVS.
Seems better to take advantage of a powerful class instead of complaining about them and trying to get them nerfed, doesn't it?
Like, I don't know, put your barb on the shelf for a couple weeks and try something new.

I get excited when I see a class is getting a boost, whether it's from changes in game mechanics or changes to the actual class. I think "how am I going to take advantage of this and make it my own?"

Other people...not so much.

Those people disappoint me.

Thank you. At least there are a few people who understand and you of course put it in a better way than I did lol.

[CosimoCal]

I spent one year to create and reincanrate 2 melee toons. I had a lot of fun with them.

But now I'd like to run some major epic raids or the new elite shroud.

Often I simply cannot, becasue on the lfg you can find the tag "only caster" . I am out because i am in a small real life friends guild and we rely on pugs or friends to run raids.

the ones who started doing what they liked (melee i.e.) are often FORCED to change their characters to play some contents.

this is an example showing that unbalanced power between classes can hurt.

[Ravoc-DDO]

What class type is the recommended choice to solo endgame content up to epic difficulty?

That's right...

[FengXian]

To the OP: try again when you start seeing "melee only" groups...

The game should be about coop., but the sad truth is that casters don't really need melees (with a few exceptions...)...casters can dps, heal, tank, rec mana. Not gonna ask to nerf casters, buff melee! :P

[goodspeed]

/signed. I agree whole heartedly. XXX is totally overpowered. Did you see the moves that guy was doing in the air? He was whippn in triple axles gettn head shots effortlessly. The dude even survived death defying stunts!!

Lets nerf vin diesel!!!

[Bunker]

I read in another thread that a players point of view sometimes does not paint a good picture for a reason to nerf a supposive over powered class/race.

Example: If a player runs with an "End Game I have Everything Completionist God Almighty Insta Killer Arcane", and really doen'st run with many others, thier perception of the class over the entire game and player base will be warped.

This happens all too much. A player will come on to the forums, thinking of 1 or maybe 2 particular situations they experienced in game, and shout out words like "overpowered" and "please nerf". They think only of the situation the experienced.

Example: My rogue was in Deleras and I was awesome at disabling all the traps. However I was always on the bottom of the kill counts. Can we boost the power of my rogue please?

There are even really experienced players, that have played and contributed an extreme amount to the game, but thier own personal view to increase the capabilities of thier favorite race/class allows them to speak on all other classes, asking them to be nerfed.

So I agree that the call for nerfs, the outcries of overpowered classes/races gets a little old. And even if the idea stated is long and well thought out, sometimes it is still wrong and coming from a sigular view, best for the writer, and not the masses of readers.

-Bunk

[Antheal]

Henshin mystic flinging fireballs sounds like fun to me.

You misspelled "Hadouken".

[strath]

Remember the days where the Exploiter was the only toon you ever needed & rogues didn't have a capstone?

I think lots of game balance is subjective and situational. Frankly one could easily argue that between Evasion UMD and High Backstab well equipped Rogue Assassins are the way to go.

I think we keep talking about balancing game play but that ignores the real issue . . . Player skill. I think more should be done to nerf skilled players. They prance around manually dodging brutal attacks, and they throw off the balance of a perfectly good mediocre PUG. Perhaps we can mail them lousy keyboards or the old fashioned trackball mouse gummed up with layers of dust.

[countfitz]

Ok, I am so sick and tired of people crying and whining because they think casters are overpowered. Every time someone cries, whines and complains, casters get nerfed.
Let the flames BEGIN!!!!

When was the last time casters were nerfed in favor of melees? Seriously!?!

And if you say "Firewall," that update increased casters OP to almost game breaking proportions.

Or was this a fake troll post and I fell for it?

I'm not sure, it did end "flame on" so...

[Faent]

Ok, I am so sick and tired of people crying and whining because they think casters are overpowered. Every time someone cries, whines and complains, casters get nerfed. Well...

Please list all the nerfs to casters you're talking about.

All other races are seriously overpowered and I demand that those classes get nerfed to the extreme that casters have. Quit complaining, quit your crying and STOP your dang whining and work together.

Wait, so casters have been "nerfed to the extreme"? Please do explain. We need to be enlightened. Obviously you have information I lack. If I can take my melee into eChrono and knock out ten trash mobs in less than two minutes, I'd rather be doing that instead of taking a full two minutes to get it done.

If I could round up a group of fifteen epic mobs and then kill them all on my melee, I'd like to do that. Can you explain how I wouldn't be instantly dead on any melee? (Well, perhaps Shade could do it, but it'd be expensive. The arcane can do it without using any resources.)

Now please, quit trying to nerf others because you can't play your toon right

Teach me how to make my melees rock as much as arcanes, and I'll worship you like a god.

In seriousness, perhaps arcanes aren't overpowered. If not, then melees are underpowered and so casters are *comparatively* overpowered. Anyone who knows anything knows at least this much.

[Antheal]

Nerf my teammates to make me look better in comparison!!11!!!!!1!!!!11!

I don't care that the whole party will end up being a lot worse off as long as I look better in comparison!!!!!11!!!1!!!!1!

Me me me me I'm the best and anyone better than me has to be nerfed because I have to be the best!!!1!!!!1!!111

!!!1!!11!!!!11!!1!1 and some more !!11!11!11!!s for emphasis.

[Psiandron]

Bah, there's still no porn in this thread.

<grumble, grumble...>

[Faent]

Nerf my teammates to make me look better in comparison!!11!!!!!1!!!!11

I don't think anyone has suggested this. If you think they have suggested it, I'd be inclined to think that your reading comprehension isn't all that great.

[strath]

Consider the source: High level D&D arcanes can cast a Wish spell! Mid level divines can raise the dead! High level fighters can swing a sword really well! . . . it's like one class lost a bet.

I don't know that anyone could argue that the game has ever been about balance. Play what is fun, even if that means a bit more or less of a challenge.

Just an addendum . . . compared to table top, melees are about right, casters have been massively nerfed.

[Chai]

I don't think anyone has suggested this. If you think they have suggested it, I'd be inclined to think that your reading comprehension isn't all that great.

Actually, quite a few people have suggested it, and overstated the case while doing so. While many wave the "teamwork" flag around, most of what they suggest when they ask for nerfs wont even solve the balance issue, unless of course, the issue is "my kill count -vs- their kill count".

[Chai]

Consider the source: High level D&D arcanes can cast a Wish spell! Mid level divines can raise the dead! High level fighters can swing a sword really well! . . . it's like one class lost a bet.

I don't know that anyone could argue that the game has ever been about balance. Play what is fun, even if that means a bit more or less of a challenge.

Just an addendum . . . compared to table top, melees are about right, casters have been massively nerfed.

Yeap exactly.

D&D was not intended to be a balanced game due to game mechanics. It was intended to be a game where each player plays a character that plays a specific role in the party, and then the DMs job is to make it forced cooperation, where they all need to work together to succeed.

The issue with MMOs is that theres always that contingent of players who feels they should have just as easy of a time in X1 class doing Y task as they would have on X2 class doing the same Y task. This is how most other MMOs work after all. If I log into WOW and fight the same trash mob in the same zone, chances are I will have roughly the same challenge defeating it on one class as I would the other. In EQ there were a couple of better solo classes, but those classes werent needed on raids for ANYTHING, so if you played a necro for instance, it was because you liked soloing, but you knew full well if you wanted to raid, you either had a guild that would allow your necro into raids, or you pugged a different class.

DDO had to delve away from its D&D roots in order to attract MMO players. There are many examples of this over the years that add up to this game playing more like an MMO and less like a D&D based game. It began with the many complaints that the game was too hard to solo starting all the way back in 2006. Numerous things have been done to please MMO players who are used to soloing their way to max level in small amounts of time, then raiding the same zones once they are off timer. While a good business decision, it certainly moved the game further away from its D&D roots. Forced cooperation went out the window, and was replaced with casual difficulty and dungeon scaling, and the expectation of being able to single handedly complete quests that only groups used to be able to handle in the past.

Along with these adjustments, came the attitude that balance equals each class being capable of defeating the same content on the same difficulty settings. Most of the old school D&D players, who are now the minority opinion, understand that this wont be the case, but those who were exposed to fantasy gaming by MMOs are used to this kind of "similar character capability" balance. Many have spent 10+ years playing games where the ranger class shoots arrows for 150 points of damage, the wizard class shoots magic missiles for 150 points of damage, and the melee class slashes for 150 points of damage. The necro class uses 2 DOTs which tick for 75 each. All of their special moves when timed right cause each class to do ~1700 DPS, to trash mobs that have 100k HP. This is the "balance" many are used to.

Then they play the D&D based game that is DDO. The number of options open to them is sick compared to the vanilla single class same capability games they are used to. They begin to learn system mastery, optimization, min maxing etc. and sooner or later they begin to realize that balance in D&D based games is not achieved through each character having similar capabilities as everyone else who plays the same role. They also realize that gear alone is not the gateway to success. Then they read forum posts about people soloing at level raids complete with screenshots.

At some point, it hits them - they aint in MMO Kansas anymore toto. This isnt WOW and EQ. Toons arent cookie cutter stamped out, and as such they do not have the same capabilities as everyone else with the same class icon. Every paladin in DDO doesnt have purple armor with oversized football pad like shoulder guards and a weapon the size of a Chevy S-10. Every cleric isnt wearing a dress with a wand in one hand and and standing in the back of the group waiting for someone to take damage so they can toss the same heal spell every single other cleric in the game carries. The players who like the differences that D&D based gaming brings to the table celebrate this and continue playing. The ones that do not, and must have their "sameness" balance in order to be happy realize there are MANY other games out there that do...

Oh wait, some actually dont act on this realization. They get on the forums and complain that something is overpowered and it needs to be nerfed. Endeavoring to turn DDO into something that plays more like other MMOs is the name of the game. They dont want to play a powerful _________. They want your __________ to not be as powerful as it is. When providing reasoning for this the issue gets completely overstated. The fact that __________ is sooo powerful, means there will never be a reason to have _____________ in a group or raid ever again. If __________ continues to unbalance the game, tons of players will leave because it makes it not fun to play. Note that this has never happened in D&D or DDO, but the claim has been made multiple times.

Those of us who understand the nature of D&D based games have accepted them for what they are a long time ago. We understand that its the number of options available that separates D&D based gaming from WOW clone based gaming. We also understand that adding this much customization and this many options makes it much harder if not darn near impossible to have balance through similar character capabilities be part of D&D based gaming. Optimizers shattered that reality immediately after the games release, and immediately after the release of new content which creates more options anyhow by gaining understanding of how each new option combines with options that already existed in the game.

Asking for classes or specific options to be nerfed due to being "overpowered" goes against the very reason why many people choose to play a D&D based game, rather than a cookie cutter same capabilities, same class = same look = same effective options game. It also doesnt solve any issues, even if the option that is being claimed to be OP is nerfed. When this happens, it changes the circumstances of combining two or more specific options to be powerful, but not the fact that this can be done - then the optimizers just break open their planners, and calculate what the most powerful combination of options is under the current set of circumstances. It becomes this unending cycle of complaining > nerf > create new OP build, complain again > nerf > create new OP build, complain again etc. There are so many more options in D&D based games compared to most other MMOs, that creating balance through similar character capabilities is not really possible in the scope of the lifetime of a typical MMO.

Bottom line: The number of character options a game has is inversely proportionate to possibility of balance through "sameness" in character capabilities per role played. Having our cake and eating it too is a tall order in a game with as many build options as DDO. There will always be something that is relatively more powerful than other options. How far does this rabbithole go? We could complain about something that is "OP" indefinately for the entire duration we play a specific D&D based game. Or - we can enjoy playing a game that has this many options with the full understanding that there will always be something more powerful than somewthing else.

[flotterjohnny]

sry nvm