Straight-up Assassin Build

[Shadico]

So, i'm new to DDO, been playing for about a month now, and also play WoW (Going on 5 and a half years now). I am no stranger to min/maxing, but DDO has far less resources to draw on than WoW does when it comes to min/maxing your characters, thus I turn to the good people of these forums.

Below is my proposed 1-20 Human Assassin Rogue Build. I'm looking for general opinions on the build, if this is the norm for Assassin's in general, and if anything is out of place Feat/Enhancement wise (regarding the order in which obtained or if something else is of better value overall/at a given time.)

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.9.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Petall Everblossom
Level 20 Lawful Good Human Female
(20 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 202
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 8
Reflex: 19
Will: 5

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             14                    14
Dexterity            16                    25
Constitution         14                    15
Intelligence         14                    16
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma              8                     8

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               7                    30
Bluff                 3                    28
Concentration         2                     2
Diplomacy            -1                    -1
Disable Device        6                    26
Haggle               -1                    -1
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  7                    38
Intimidate           -1                    -1
Jump                  6                    25
Listen               -1                    -1
Move Silently         7                    38
Open Lock             7                    30
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair                2                     3
Search                6                    26
Spot                  3                    22
Swim                  2                     2
Tumble                7                    30
Use Magic Device      3                    22

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Improved Hide I
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently I


Level 2 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I


Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse


Level 4 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Rogue Item Defense I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Improved Hide II
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently II


Level 5 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Dexterity I


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I


Level 7 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III


Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking II


Level 10 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Crippling Strike
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III


Level 11 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing III


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV


Level 13 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking III


Level 14 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy IV


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking IV


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing IV


Level 17 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin III


Level 19 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Defensive Roll
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Deadly Shadow

If you need any more information from me, feel free to ask, and thank you all for taking the time to help me learn.

[nbennet]

A "min-maxer" would probably not opt for a Dex-based assassin. They would roll up a Str-based Assassin - the cookie cutter approach is Exotic Weapon: Khopesh instead of Weapon Finesse. (Here comes the Str vs Dex holy war...) They would have the resources to dump Int and compensate with gear to hit trapskills watermarks, and start with a 15 Dex using a +2 tome to qualify for TWF feat line. Most likely they would be doing this on a 32-point toon also, having unlocked it via favor or bought it from the DDO Store.

They might wield a two handed weapon for the first few levels (TWF doesn't come into its own until later) and they would probably also go Mechanic initially for an early trapskills boost, respeccing to Assassin at level 12.

Both Bluff and Tumble skills are foregoable, although 1 point in Tumble is generally useful to unlock the skill. Jump does not need to be maxed out - it caps at 40 and at endgame there are clickies/spells for +30. Diplomacy can be very useful for shedding aggro.

Item Defense enhancement is wasted, and faster Sneaking IV is meh. Haste Boost IV would do much more, as would at least Human Toughness II. Take the Toughness Feat earlier (I personally get it at level 1). Weapon Focus is wasted - Power Attack would be a better choice. Personally I can live without Oversized TWF also, although I might I might consider Quickdraw and Skill Focus:UMD. I find Defensive Roll and Slippery Mind are mediocre - consider the Skill Boost bonus feat instead.

Best of luck to you.


*Edit* I meant Quickdraw feat

[BuyTiles]

Don't go finesse.

Drop dex to 15, drop int to 12, bump STR as much as you can. CON 14 is a minimum.

Take OTWF much later as it's pointless at low levels, swap that for toughness.

Swap finesse for khopesh,and ICierce for slash.

All level ups into STR.

You'll be much happier with your build.

[Shadico]

A "min-maxer" would probably not opt for a Dex-based assassin. They would roll up a Str-based Assassin - the cookie cutter approach is Exotic Weapon: Khopesh instead of Weapon Finesse. (Here comes the Str vs Dex holy war...) They would have the resources to dump Int and compensate with gear to hit trapskills watermarks, and start with a 15 Dex using a +2 tome to qualify for TWF feat line. Most likely they would be doing this on a 32-point toon also, having unlocked it via favor or bought it from the DDO Store.

They might wield a two handed weapon for the first few levels (TWF doesn't come into its own until later) and they would probably also go Mechanic initially for an early trapskills boost, respeccing to Assassin at level 12.

Both Bluff and Tumble skills are foregoable, although 1 point in Tumble is generally useful to unlock the skill. Jump does not need to be maxed out - it caps at 40 and at endgame there are clickies/spells for +30. Diplomacy can be very useful for shedding aggro.

Item Defense enhancement is wasted, and faster Sneaking IV is meh. Haste Boost IV would do much more, as would at least Human Toughness II. Take the Toughness Feat earlier (I personally get it at level 1). Weapon Focus is wasted - Power Attack would be a better choice. Personally I can live without Oversized TWF also, although I might I might consider Quickness and Skill Focus:UMD. I find Defensive Roll and Slippery Mind are mediocre - consider the Skill Boost bonus feat instead.

Best of luck to you.

So take 13 Dex, and use a +2 Dex tome?

I swapped Bluff for Diplo on my Build Model, I had gotten Bluff assuming it was the Threat Drop Skill I was looking for. Thank you for the correction.

I also Dropped Item Defense and Human Versa for Human Imp. Recov.

Got Toughness over WF:P and got Power Attack at 18 in my build model. Im getting Faster Sneak 4 to have a shorter time Assassinating 2 targets in Epic content. Not much else. Removed Defensive roll, got Skill Boost instead.

My question on Kopesh vs. Rapier, is with Rapiers and Imp Crit, i'd have a 15-20 crit, meaning 1 in four hits would be a crit. Thats VERY often. Is the x3 on Khopeshes able to make up for the less often crits? I would assume thats what the "Holy War" is all about? Some napkin math should be able to resolve that arguement, but if you have the math availible, i'd like to see it. Are there any other advantages/difference between using a Khopesh vs. Rapier other than the x3 crit on it?

Don't go finesse.

Drop dex to 15, drop int to 12, bump STR as much as you can. CON 14 is a minimum.

Take OTWF much later as it's pointless at low levels, swap that for toughness.

Swap finesse for khopesh,and ICierce for slash.

All level ups into STR.

You'll be much happier with your build.

If I am not going to be going into a Dexterity Build, and instead an STR Kopesh build, why would I want to keep Dex at 15? Wouldn't I want to drop it to 12-ish or lower as I have no use for it?

EDIT: Nvm, as nbennet said, its to qualify for the TWF feat line.

[Lifeblood]

So take 13 Dex, and use a +2 Dex tome?

I swapped Bluff for Diplo on my Build Model, I had gotten Bluff assuming it was the Threat Drop Skill I was looking for. Thank you for the correction.

I also Dropped Item Defense and Human Versa for Human Imp. Recov.

Got Toughness over WF:P and got Power Attack at 18 in my build model. Im getting Faster Sneak 4 to have a shorter time Assassinating 2 targets in Epic content. Not much else. Removed Defensive roll, got Skill Boost instead.

My question on Kopesh vs. Rapier, is with Rapiers and Imp Crit, i'd have a 15-20 crit, meaning 1 in four hits would be a crit. Thats VERY often. Is the x3 on Khopeshes able to make up for the less often crits? I would assume thats what the "Holy War" is all about? Some napkin math should be able to resolve that arguement, but if you have the math availible, i'd like to see it. Are there any other advantages/difference between using a Khopesh vs. Rapier other than the x3 crit on it?





If I am not going to be going into a Dexterity Build, and instead an STR Kopesh build, why would I want to keep Dex at 15? Wouldn't I want to drop it to 12-ish or lower as I have no use for it?

EDIT: Nvm, as nbennet said, its to qualify for the TWF feat line.

In order to qualify for the entire TWF Line of feats you need a min of 17 dex ...15 starting +2 tome at lvl 7

[Viciouspika]

The reason for having the dex at 15 is that in order to use the two weapon fighting feats you need a min dex of 17 to qualify for that feat chain. With a +2 dex tome at seventh level, your dex becomes 17 allowing you to take the twf feat chain. The only way around the minimum dex requirement is to take 2 levels of ranger and up to 11 levels of ranger for the whole feat chain.

Agree with other posters, you should weild a two-handed weapon until about level 6-9 because your ability to hit with two weapons is awful. Max out your toughness enhancements until you get hp items because with only 6+con bonus hitpoints each level your considered squishy.

Good Luck and welcome to DDO.

[Shadico]

The reason for having the dex at 15 is that in order to use the two weapon fighting feats you need a min dex of 17 to qualify for that feat chain. With a +2 dex tome at seventh level, your dex becomes 17 allowing you to take the twf feat chain. The only way around the minimum dex requirement is to take 2 levels of ranger and up to 11 levels of ranger for the whole feat chain.

Agree with other posters, you should weild a two-handed weapon until about level 6-9 because your ability to hit with two weapons is awful. Max out your toughness enhancements until you get hp items because with only 6+con bonus hitpoints each level your considered squishy.

Good Luck and welcome to DDO.

Ah, sounds good. One thing I should note though is that I am currently level 15 and using Dual Turbulent Epee's atm (very sexy). This build is something I plan to GR into at 20. So far it looks like I'll have to farm a Dex tome as well before I even try to look at GRing.

I want to make a Pure rogue, so no Ranger multiclassing.

I currently don't worry much at all about HP, because of the Treason effect on the Dual Epee's I NEVER have agro. Thus my only damage intakes are mostly from incidental AOE which is completely able to be dodged for the most part.

[CaligulaChelios]

I think dexterity is pointless too becuase it causes a strength contraversy where attacks wont land accurately and damage wont be high enough, but if the character is elven it makes it easier to rely on dexterity

Str 16
Dex 12
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 10
Cha 8

A rogue have the highest skill increasement, making a +3 or +4 very handy at first for skills but not dynamically important. Strength comes in handy to beat enemies weakly so death isnt a risk. You cant stay sneaking forever because going back and forth is too technical so once your position is given good strength and armor is a a good backup. Bluff is a rogues best weapon if anything becuase sneak attacks make rogues good killers. So Feint is very handy too to feint and bluff again and again where sneak attack applies even when not sneaking. Two handed weapon fighting is not only simply but reliable, is two weapon fighying is more impirtant, later use is a better idea so if taking points off Inteligence eases your goal go right ahead at first to have sufficient Dexterity (minimum 15 not 17 for two weapon fighting). Better assassins are fighter combined so rely on fighter combo making my character unflinching to any combat. high dexterity also boost ranged back up.