~Epic Completionist Pale Master~

[pezuwarrior]

Good job on your post. I don't want to disrupt your thread or upset anyone but ....



I really wish people would stop saying that.

You see, one of the great advantages to a warforged palemaster is you don't need to be in undead form all the time.

More options, more versatility, greater survivability does not somehow mean = bad

When I tanked Horoth in our all PM TOD I was in lich form.

But when I solo third base in EV6 I don't use undead form.

Pale master self healing is good but not always your best option.

Furthermore my warforged palemaster has a necro DC of 45. I could get higher with short term buffs but really .. why do I need higher than a 45 necro DC?

Anyhoo .. just my opinion.

Race is definately majorly based on opinion

What I think is since the only WF immunity that PM's dont get is petrification..that advantage is basically null

The Self healing aura that a PM gets has always been enough to keep me up when running in the past, although it has been a while.

A DC higher than 45=less saves in difficult epics i believe

Although WF have more options the benefits from human make them the best imo...although i dont wish to incite a riot with this comment

[pezuwarrior]

Do you get the Barbarian past life for free? If so that's another 10 hp.

thanks good catch, fixed

[pezuwarrior]

Instead of mire ring, make an Epic Shaman's for the spell pene 9 and cast stoneskin.

Drop your spell pene feat and take insightful reflexes.

If you are going to go completionist, go the extra mile and get three levels of wizard.

IMO, nothing wrong at all with people posting hardcore end game builds. Not every build posted has to be accessable by the masses.

1) Good call
2) Until I get around to the next 2 wiz lives I think I need the spell pen
3) I'm nearly there, and I need a break before more TR's lol

[Rawel_San]

To be perfectly honest I think if you're willing to spend the time and energy on that many TR's I'd rather do
3 wiz, 1 bard, 3 fvs and 3 sorc + last life wiz. Pop in some cleric if you want the conjuration DC's and/or some
barb for the hp.

You lose the completionist feat but you gain more in better synergies. +9 spell pen is huge and easily frees up
a feat from spell pen or if you keep it let's you actually do reasonable cc even on epic drow. The only thing
you really lose from completionst is +1 dc's 20 hp and the +1 to UMD. You can get 39 umd on a second life
wizard so that should not be a problem the 20 hp can be offset with the barb lives so the only thing you
really lose is +1 necro and enchant dc, you can make up the +1 enchant by actually taking gsf: enchant which
to be honest seems absurd not to have. If you are going to go for completionist you might as well get a better
enchant DC then the guy that has one past life wizard.

As far as gear goes I would counsel against 3 shroud items there are so many better things to put into those slots
be it 3 pieces of the abishai set for some extra hp (envenomed cloak is very nice) or just having the boots slot
open for boots of anchoring and the dr 4/- from epic golden greaves.

The shroud of the abbot does not btw. give you 8 hp back on every hit. It gives you 1d6+3 I believe since I
seem to recall a +9 but am sure there was never a +10 (it might actually just be 1d6+2). This works out to a
stacking DR of about 6.5 or 5.5 depending on which of my numbers is correct. It also has a very nasty habit of
bugging out when you swap robes while in form and sometimes even when swapping them out of form.

Also while your dc's and spell pen numbers look nice don't forget that if you are getting your 32/29 spell pen
you are not getting +2 to your necro dc's or +2 to your enchantment DC's making the spell pen
largely worthless. You are also losing 1 dc from not wielding the staff of inner sight for the +7 int bonus.
That can be rectified by using the robe of the diabolist though.

Lastly the sanura's ring is largely worthless, I realize you don't intend to wear the set but that much more so
I would go and get the rahkir's ring and swap in the belt for those places where you need to nuke (eDQ
in particular).

Just my 2 copper,
Rawel

[Plutonian]

Heighten at lvl 20th... ??

there could be better staffs... this means .... all changes about gear...

long way ... good luck anyway....

[karnokvolrath]

A DC higher than 45=less saves in difficult epics i believe

At some point DCs just become overkill (around 44), or at least was the case with enchantment. Honestly i havnt done testing since the epic change much. Was gone for a while and my pale is on the backburner to TR death.

Although WF have more options the benefits from human make them the best imo...although i dont wish to incite a riot with this comment

I dobt your going to start a riot, this is most peoples thinking. If its correct or not its debatable, i think both are good but for what i want/my playstyle WF is the answer. That said a human isnt wrong either....or elf...they all have strong points. But just excluding WF because "palemasters already self heal" is just a bad call imo.

To be perfectly honest I think if you're willing to spend the time and energy on that many TR's I'd rather do
3 wiz, 1 bard, 3 fvs and 3 sorc + last life wiz. Pop in some cleric if you want the conjuration DC's and/or some
barb for the hp.

You lose the completionist feat but you gain more in better synergies. +9 spell pen is huge and easily frees up
a feat from spell pen or if you keep it let's you actually do reasonable cc even on epic drow. The only thing
you really lose from completionst is +1 dc's 20 hp and the +1 to UMD. You can get 39 umd on a second life
wizard so that should not be a problem the 20 hp can be offset with the barb lives so the only thing you
really lose is +1 necro and enchant dc, you can make up the +1 enchant by actually taking gsf: enchant which
to be honest seems absurd not to have. If you are going to go for completionist you might as well get a better
enchant DC then the guy that has

As far as gear goes I would counsel against 3 shroud items there are so many better things to put into those slots
be it 3 pieces of the abishai set for some extra hp (envenomed cloak is very nice) or just having the boots slot
open for boots of anchoring and the dr 4/- from epic golden greaves.
l

And all kinds of This ^^. That many trs and not doing at least the 3 wizzy lifes seems basically pointless. +1 rawl

[Atenhotep]

Wait .. you didn't take insightful reflexes?

That's a non negotiable feat for a wizard.

That needs to be like the first rule in Wizard School 101.

[LeLoric]

eerily similar to my build except I don't have completionist especially the gearset. I have also done away with most enchantment stuff. Truth is I really only use it on really high fort save stuff or immune mobs. Those tend to have low enough will saves that it doesn't even matter.

I do agree with the above post. Insightful reflexes is really a no brainer for me. The only thing that kills you is high burst dmg. This one feat takes care of 95% of those.

[MrCow]

~Spell DC's~10-Base
+9-Spell Level
+21-Int
+2-Spell Focus Mastery (Epic Staff of Inner Sight)
+1-Arcane Initiate
+1-Spellsinger Bard Song
----------------
Base DC-44

Last I recall, undead were immune to the morale bonus granted by Spellsong Trance.

[Morosy]

Last I recall, undead were immune to the morale bonus granted by Spellsong Trance.

Yep, unless dropping form every few minutes is your kind of thing. (Not actually terrible to do, just not really worth it)

[BGrifter]

Aside from availability issues between now and Halloween, why no mention of Mabar items? The Robe seems like an obvious choice and the Cloak is worth consideration as well.

[Anzanel]

Aside from availability issues between now and Halloween, why no mention of Mabar items? The Robe seems like an obvious choice and the Cloak is worth consideration as well.

Yeah, I was also wondering why the Robe of Shadows wasn't on there :P

Speaking of which, it only requires one epic token to make the Epic version of the robe, right? (Aside from all the other stuff like motes, etc.) I was too noob to make an epic one last year, and I really, really want to have one this year.

[digitalkarma]

Speaking as part of the 0.000001% of players that would attempt the original poster's build, I think it's awesome.

The gear requirements seem really tough, but in the process of working towards that end-game gear you acquire other usefull items. For example: Trinkets might include the upgraded Archmage Ioun Stone, Epic Buccaneer's Spyglass, and yes, the afore-mentioned Epic Robe of Shadow (Mabar event). Over time the Shroud ingredients grow into huge stacks and making a few extra weirdo items is no big deal.

My guild and I often fight over the cost/benefit of Insightful Reflexes vs. (Other Feat Here) for the 1st/2nd/3rd Life Pale Master TR. I've put IR into the builder every time, but when Im actually there and I True Reincarnate my main I always choose the (Other Feat Here) over Insightful Reflexes. I still solo epics, and I do get *smacked* when I fail those Reflex saves, but with about 75% of the end-game gear already in inventory and the natural regeneration lvl 18+ PMs have now, getting hit for 300 HP isn't so bad. Perhaps the way to balance NOT having IR is with more HP. With gear, self-buffs Im maintaining 520 HP with cirtical burst heals over 300 HP.

Please keep the debate going! Great topic, and thank you for the original post.

[pezuwarrior]

I dunno if anyone wants an update, but Pele is currently on his 17th life. All the gear is acquired and after a few more TR's I will make a similar build. If anyone is interested let me know and I'll post it up.

[maddmatt70]

Why not elf? Really to me with the enemy drow on the horizons having the ability to get to a spell penetration in the 40s is more useful then 40 or so hit points. You can always swap feats to pick up greater spell penetration and still have max, empower, extend, greater spell focus necro, toughness, i.e. the core feats if the updates in the future require it, but you can not swap to elf for spell penetration without having to take the time to tr.

[deahamlet]

I dunno if anyone wants an update, but Pele is currently on his 17th life. All the gear is acquired and after a few more TR's I will make a similar build. If anyone is interested let me know and I'll post it up.

Post it please, I'm curious.
Also, are you preparing for all the drow or ignoring that for now?

[Faent]

To be perfectly honest I think if you're willing to spend the time and energy on that many TR's I'd rather do 3 wiz, 1 bard, 3 fvs and 3 sorc + last life wiz. Pop in some cleric if you want the conjuration DC's and/or some barb for the hp.

In order of importance, I think it goes 3 WIZ, 1 BRD, 3 CLR, 3 FvS, 3 SOR and 3 BRB. Going for Completionist first on this sort of build is a big mistake, IMO.

You lose the completionist feat but you gain more in better synergies. +9 spell pen is huge and easily frees up a feat from spell pen or if you keep it let's you actually do reasonable cc even on epic drow.

It frees up two feats and all your Spell Pen Enhancements. An endgame Palemaster that wants to tank needs to be taking Shield Profiency and Improved Shield Mastery. Frankly, any endgame Palemaster should be *seriously* trying to fit those feats.

The only thing you really lose from completionst is +1 dc's 20 hp and the +1 to UMD. You can get 39 umd on a second life wizard so that should not be a problem the 20 hp can be offset with the barb lives so the only thing you really lose is +1 necro and enchant dc, you can make up the +1 enchant by actually taking gsf: enchant which to be honest seems absurd not to have. If you are going to go for completionist you might as well get a better enchant DC then the guy that has one past life wizard.

Once this build really goes endgame and looks into shields, that's going to be hard to fit.

As far as gear goes I would counsel against 3 shroud items there are so many better things to put into those slots be it 3 pieces of the abishai set for some extra hp (envenomed cloak is very nice) or just having the boots slot open for boots of anchoring and the dr 4/- from epic golden greaves.

I'd aim for two shroud items and the Envenomed Cloak. No other Abishai pieces.

Also while your dc's and spell pen numbers look nice don't forget that if you are getting your 32/29 spell pen you are not getting +2 to your necro dc's or +2 to your enchantment DC's making the spell pen largely worthless. You are also losing 1 dc from not wielding the staff of inner sight for the +7 int bonus.
That can be rectified by using the robe of the diabolist though.

There are other problems. He's counting on a Spellsinger for those DC's, and he has to drop form to get the bonus. Then his Enchantment DC is calculated in a different form than his Necro DC, so he doesn't have those at the same time. The Conjuration DC includes a gear swap. IMO, this isn't the proper way to figure one's DC's. You're not going to be swapping form and an item to cast a Disco/Web and then swapping form and an item to get back to Necro/PM spells. Sure, you can run these numbers if you're interested in theoretical maximums, but to base a build off them is nuts.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Get better spell penetration. My first life drow wizard has 29 spell pen on IX and below and will go up to 30 for VIII and below when I get a seal for my torc. With the new content I'd much rather 3*wizard, 3*FvS before completionist. I'm TR'ing specifically into elf just to get more spell pen.

Post your entire enhancement plan. There isn't too much versatility in a Pale Master once you get the basics down, enhancements are the part that interest me. I'm currently testing a 7/1/1 investment in acid, lightning and force; not as good for max DPS but I think it has its merits for questing and versatility.

I wouldn't invest 3 slots for GS. GS +45 HP Conc-opp Goggles, Charisma skills SP Gloves to swap in as needed is enough.

I'll plan on epic flame ward offhand/heal scroll mainhand to get no fail heal scrolls (if you upgrade it with +2 GL it's a +11 UMD stick). I'm planning on Epic Darkstorm Helm for superior lightning lore and superior void lore when in max int mode (ie, mabar robe not equipped). Epic Rock Boots are great for the superior acid lore and guards, I really enjoy these. I'm working on a heavy crystal mystical water/water/fire alchemical shield now (-5% ASF slotted on medium guild augment gloves, currently use L&D for tanking - still hunting some LGA gloves).

[Faent]

I'll plan on epic flame ward offhand/heal scroll mainhand to get no fail heal scrolls (if you upgrade it with +2 GL it's a +11 UMD stick).

That's an awful lot of swapping just to get off a scroll. No thanks. This is gimped scroll-casting.

[wax_on_wax_off]

That's an awful lot of swapping just to get off a scroll. No thanks. This is gimped scroll-casting.

No more swapping than to equip a scroll ... set up the weapon slot with scroll in main hand, flame ward in off hand and then when you hit the button to equip the scroll you also get the +5 UMD, +8 charisma, +2 GL stick to boost your spell casting.