Shields+TWF?? Is this True/WAI

[Cam_Neely]

Me personally? No, but I would not build a S&B pally, just too feat starved. It would require you to paint yourself into the corner as just a Tank, with little DPS. The Dual strike could be useful to help hold agro gainst very high DPS toons. (even non DR break dmg, when multiplied by the threat %+ the intim threat% is helpful).

A Fighter could be a very strong Sword and board when you want, and switch to strong TWF DPS, with a enhancement reset. But thats purely because of the 70 or so more feats the get

[Calebro]

The only use I see for this is a TR with a Fighter base, who has plenty of feats to spare, who has upgraded his first silver trinket from his previous life in the Abbot and turned in for an Aegis of Flame
That is literally the only thing I see as even remotely viable for the feat cost.

edit:
And that's assuming that named items also got the mithral pass in U9, which would need to be confirmed as things such as this tend to get missed by Turbine at times. Because the damage type does not list mithral.

[psteen1]

whether this makes sense at end game or not, can we return to the original question and figure out whether TWF feats do increase shield proc'ing? Because it would be great for my toon during the leveling process. The shield gives extra spots to stick enchantments (like seeker and stunning), gives me 25% damage mitigation (thanks update 9!), so getting even more shield bashes would just be icing on the cake.

[Feithlin]

I enter a bit late in the discussion, but I think it would logical if TWF were increasing proc for shield bash, since ... it's a weapon, in off hand, that you use with another weapon in main hand.
Would it be OP? Certainly not. The damage of a shield is far behind that of a weapon (even if str mod isn't halved). As many mentioned, it's hard to make it bypass demons' dr (not that hard for silver with craft). However, it would increase significantly the damage (and thus the threat) of a S&B tank. That would make it easier for SD tanks to generate threat, without having either to grind a lot of gear or splash 6 pal levels for the almighty Divine righteousness.

[Bodic]

Does it really matter? Unless you can find a good aligned and specific metal type shield, then it's all kind of a moot point, isn't it?
It would be like using a masterwork dagger in your off hand while tanking the boss.

The only boss that it would be useful against doesn't need the help, because the Reaver is about as scary as a 14 year old girl selling cookies door to door.

the best basher is L&D and that is silver, adamatine, mithral with extra bashyness to bad you cant Align it.

[Angelus_dead]

I enter a bit late in the discussion, but I think it would logical if TWF were increasing proc for shield bash, since ... it's a weapon, in off hand, that you use with another weapon in main hand.
Would it be OP? Certainly not.

It might not be OP, but it would be bad because it means that all effective S&B builds are also TWF builds, unavoidably.
TWF and S&B characters should be distinct builds, instead of S&B being an advanced variant of TWF.

[Bortz]

Harder on feat poor class, but what about 12F/6R/2M with like 13 feats.
Moves from SB to TWF as needed.

[Failedlegend]

It might not be OP, but it would be bad because it means that all effective S&B builds are also TWF builds, unavoidably.
TWF and S&B characters should be distinct builds, instead of S&B being an advanced variant of TWF.

I actually DONT want this to be true because it will make Paladin Tanks obsolete even more as a Fighter with a Bastard Sword or D-Axe wielding a shield with both the full THF line and the full TWF line would get glancing blows AND 80% chance to strike with their off-hand sheild...while getting full Strength bonus from both.

I wouldn't mind seeing Sheild Mastery, ISM & Improved Shield Bash become a S&B's version of the THF or TWF Line....maybe have them increase threat gen a bit each or something.

[ShadowFlash]

Hey peoples with the recent awesomeness coming to shield bearers i was planning on building a THF Bastard Sword/Board build that would switch to a 2-Hander when not tanking but since than I've noticed some people saying that the TWF line increases your chance to get a shield bash if you have the improved shield bash feat

Improved Shield Bash enables the character to retain the shield bonus to its Armor Class when using Shield bash, and grants a 20% chance to make a secondary shield bash while attacking with a melee weapon.

Two Weapon Fighting increases the chance to proc an off-hand attack by 20%, bringing the total chance to 40%

Improved Two Weapon Fighting increases the chance to proc an off-hand attack by 20%, bringing the total chance to 60%.

Greater Two Weapon Fighting increases the chance to proc an off-hand attack by 20%, bringing the total chance to 80%.


So players is this true and devs is this WAI.

I was in another thread discussing the very same thing, and so far have seen no testing or confirmation that the TWFing line affects S&B. I really wish someone with the line AND shield bash could test this out. It was my understanding that it did NOT work, and it's always a static 20% chance, but I would LOVE to be wrong Dwarven Daxe 14Pally/6fighter Kensai Defender with full TWF,THF,and shield mastery and bash....saweet

[-Zyxas-]

The only use I see for this is a TR with a Fighter base, who has plenty of feats to spare, who has upgraded his first silver trinket from his previous life in the Abbot and turned in for an Aegis of Flame
That is literally the only thing I see as even remotely viable for the feat cost.

edit:
And that's assuming that named items also got the mithral pass in U9, which would need to be confirmed as things such as this tend to get missed by Turbine at times. Because the damage type does not list mithral.

DDOwiki isn't updated too often. They add pages for new stuff like crafting and the new adventure packs, but to my experience some other old things that were changed aren't on the wiki (for example, look at some of the greensteel stuff, some things in the pages are outdated like saying exceptional stats are "new").

whether this makes sense at end game or not, can we return to the original question and figure out whether TWF feats do increase shield proc'ing? Because it would be great for my toon during the leveling process. The shield gives extra spots to stick enchantments (like seeker and stunning), gives me 25% damage mitigation (thanks update 9!), so getting even more shield bashes would just be icing on the cake.

I agree, does anyone know about this? We already determined that there's Aegis of Flame and an epic shield (w/ slot) that have silver AND good DR break, as well as being able to craft them, so that sidetracked discussion is basically finished now.

[Failedlegend]

whether this makes sense at end game or not, can we return to the original question and figure out whether TWF feats do increase shield proc'ing? Because it would be great for my toon during the leveling process. The shield gives extra spots to stick enchantments (like seeker and stunning), gives me 25% damage mitigation (thanks update 9!), so getting even more shield bashes would just be icing on the cake.

I agree, does anyone know about this? We already determined that there's Aegis of Flame and an epic shield (w/ slot) that have silver AND good DR break, as well as being able to craft them, so that sidetracked discussion is basically finished now.

Yeah I definately would love a confirmation from a player whther it works or not and idealy a comment from a dev as to if its WAI or even if they play too make Shield Mastery, ISM, and Imp. Shield Bash into the "S&B Line"

Also for the levels below aegis you could easily just craft metalline of pure good or something.

[krisz93]

In case this is confirmed, expect an updated version of the Angry Hoplite

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=309926

[Dark-Star]

Tested.

20 dwarven pure fighter
Full TWF line
Full THF line
Improved Shield Bash feat

In a small data sample, there was roughly a shield bash every 5th hit, sometimes less (but within the margin of statistical error for the limited sample).

Improved Sheld Bash does not work with the TWF line.

You all owe me an exceptional syb shard .

[ShadowFlash]

Tested.

20 dwarven pure fighter
Full TWF line
Full THF line
Improved Shield Bash feat

In a small data sample, there was roughly a shield bash every 5th hit, sometimes less (but within the margin of statistical error for the limited sample).

Improved Sheld Bash does not work with the TWF line.

You all owe me an exceptional syb shard .

Thank You Thank You Thank You for squelching this nasty rumor that had me re-thinking my next build.

[Failedlegend]

Thank You Thank You Thank You for squelching this nasty rumor that had me re-thinking my next build.

Yeah thanks now i dont worry...now debs make it happen...Shild Mastery, improved sheild mastery and improved shield bash as the official S&B line

[krisz93]

...

[krisz93]

Dammit, already had the build planned :'(.
Here is the split with 100% Bash chance, fair DPS and fully f2p.
Could have been an emergency saver with the high blocking DR and Intimidate
Could have used a couple more feat slots for Imp Crit and Toughness though

http://www.ddochargen.com/home.aspx?build=1964

[Aesop]

It might not be OP, but it would be bad because it means that all effective S&B builds are also TWF builds, unavoidably.
TWF and S&B characters should be distinct builds, instead of S&B being an advanced variant of TWF.

Total Agreement here

[Illiain]

The base dmg of shields aren't that hot anyway.

Levik's Defender has a base 1d12+5 even if the crit is 20/x2. It's still a solid base damage.

As for random drop that get crafted, those are kind of low.

[Aesop]

As a note Shield Bash uses full Strength for damage instead of half Strength like off hand attacks. Pretty sure this was listed in Update 10 release notes.

Using a Shield generates more Threat as well.


I would like to see a little more added on to S&B but mostly in terms of upping the current numbers and not adding more Feats.


I would like Shield Use to start the base line for all of these effects

Shield Bash 10% Shield Bash adds Half Strength as damage bonus

Shield Mitigation based on type
Buckler 0%
Light 5%
Heavy 10%

Tower Shield 15%

Threat Generation +25%


Then the other Feats could grant bonuses to each of these

Improved Shield Bash +20% Shield Bash use full Strength for damage bonus

Shield Mastery: +10% Shield Mitigation, +25% Threat Generation

Improved Shield Mastery: +10% Shield Mitigation, +25% Threat Generation



As an aside I'd like to stop Bastard Swords and Dwarven War Axes from benefiting from the THF Feats. I'd rather have Enhancements for Exotic weapons that would cover those benefits. It goes along with distinct styles.

I do like the Bastard Sward and Dwarven War Axes having Glancing Blows just not getting things from a different Style than their intended use.

Aesop