Shields+TWF?? Is this True/WAI

[Failedlegend]

Hey peoples with the recent awesomeness coming to shield bearers i was planning on building a THF Bastard Sword/Board build that would switch to a 2-Hander when not tanking but since than I've noticed some people saying that the TWF line increases your chance to get a shield bash if you have the improved shield bash feat

Improved Shield Bash enables the character to retain the shield bonus to its Armor Class when using Shield bash, and grants a 20% chance to make a secondary shield bash while attacking with a melee weapon.

Two Weapon Fighting increases the chance to proc an off-hand attack by 20%, bringing the total chance to 40%

Improved Two Weapon Fighting increases the chance to proc an off-hand attack by 20%, bringing the total chance to 60%.

Greater Two Weapon Fighting increases the chance to proc an off-hand attack by 20%, bringing the total chance to 80%.


So players is this true and devs is this WAI.

[Tsuarok]

I believe the shield bash will be classified differently than off-hand attacks, and so the twf line will not apply. But that is just my gut feeling.

[-Zyxas-]

Interesting. It DOES say offhand attacks, but I have no way of knowing if it works this way. I've always wanted to try a sword and board toon that isn't gimp. I'll stay tuned for an answer.

[Calebro]

Does it really matter? Unless you can find a good aligned and specific metal type shield, then it's all kind of a moot point, isn't it?
It would be like using a masterwork dagger in your off hand while tanking the boss.

The only boss that it would be useful against doesn't need the help, because the Reaver is about as scary as a 14 year old girl selling cookies door to door.

[Failedlegend]

Does it really matter?

Well it obviously matters to me since I asked the question try being a little less snarky and a little more useful

Unless you can find a good aligned and specific metal type shield, then it's all kind of a moot point, isn't it?

You can get all that and no its not a masterwork dagger because it has been changed to work just like a weapon any enhancements bonus is added to attack/damage and the type of metal = its dr passing. as well as taking full str bonus to attack.

[Valiance]

Does it really matter? Unless you can find a good aligned and specific metal type shield, then it's all kind of a moot point, isn't it?
It would be like using a masterwork dagger in your off hand while tanking the boss.

The only boss that it would be useful against doesn't need the help, because the Reaver is about as scary as a 14 year old girl selling cookies door to door.

Could craft a metalline of pure good shield if you really needed to. Or a Holy of Grtr Bane, wouldn't be able to bypass DR but would get all the extra effect procs for decent dmg. The base dmg of shields aren't that hot anyway.

V

[Cam_Neely]

Does it really matter? Unless you can find a good aligned and specific metal type shield, then it's all kind of a moot point, isn't it?
It would be like using a masterwork dagger in your off hand while tanking the boss.

Really? What Masterwork dagger a % DR, raises your AC, and has strong potential effects such as casting a lv9 heal spell on you?

[Calebro]

Well it obviously matters to me since I asked the question try being a little less snarky and a little more useful

You can get all that and no its not a masterwork dagger because it has been changed to work just like a weapon any enhancements bonus is added to attack/damage and the type of metal = its dr passing. as well as taking full str bonus to attack.

I'm not being snarky, I'm asking a serious question.
What are you going to do about breaking DR? If you aren't going to break it, why bother wasting a feat to do little to no damage on 20% of your attacks?

[Failedlegend]

What are you going to do about breaking DR?

Try actually reading the last 3 posts including mine...which you quoted

Could craft a metalline of pure good shield if you really needed to. Or a Holy of Grtr Bane, wouldn't be able to bypass DR but would get all the extra effect procs for decent dmg. The base dmg of shields aren't that hot anyway.

V

Really? What Masterwork dagger a % DR, raises your AC, and has strong potential effects such as casting a lv9 heal spell on you?

the type of metal = its dr passing

Also IIRC Mithral is either Metalline or counts as two metal types.

[Cam_Neely]

IIRC Mithral is either Metalline or counts as two metal types.

Metalline is not a metal type, but a prefix, so typically not used. [strikethough]I cant find it, but I think I might remember (hows that for ambiguous?) a dev post saying mithral should bypass good DR.[/strikethough]

*EDIT*
See below, mithral bypasses silver and mithral dr

[Calebro]

Try actually reading the last 3 posts including mine...which you quoted

Now who's being snarky?

[psteen1]

I'm not being snarky, I'm asking a serious question.
What are you going to do about breaking DR? If you aren't going to break it, why bother wasting a feat to do little to no damage on 20% of your attacks?

because some [read: most except those who patrol the forums] aren't basing their entire gameplay around raid bosses, and like to have fun trying cool things.

[Hordo]

Am I reading this right, that the upcoming changes to shields that if I blow some feats on Improved Shield Bashing and the TWF line the shield would also count as the offhand weapon in a TWF weapon set?

Or am I still riding on the no crafting-nerf update 10.1 high?

[-Zyxas-]

Does it really matter? Unless you can find a good aligned and specific metal type shield, then it's all kind of a moot point, isn't it?
It would be like using a masterwork dagger in your off hand while tanking the boss.

The only boss that it would be useful against doesn't need the help, because the Reaver is about as scary as a 14 year old girl selling cookies door to door.

Crafted MoPG or...
http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Coronation_Shield
http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Kundarak_Warding_Shield
http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Shield_of_the_Scorpion
- Can slot silver on Violet slots, pally capstone breaks DR
http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Ward_of_Undeath
- Can slot silver, already has good, for anyone.

JUST saying, that is a lot of work.

EDIT: didn't know about mithril, that adds Levik's, Light and Darkness, Skyvault, and randomly produced mithril shields to the list for pallies, as well as mithril shields crafted with pure good or holy for anyone.

[Diyon]

Metalline is not a metal type, but a prefix, so typically not used. I cant find it, but I think I might remember (hows that for ambiguous?) a dev post saying mithral should bypass good DR.

No, I believe mithral bypasses mithral DR (Reaver/Sor'jek) and silver DR.

[Cam_Neely]

No, I believe mithral bypasses mithral DR (Reaver/Sor'jek) and silver DR.

you are correct, +1, thanks

Adamantine shields now correctly bypass adamantine damage reduction when shield bashing. Mithral shields now bypass both silver and mithral damage reduction.

[Calebro]

Crafted MoPG or...
http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Coronation_Shield
http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Kundarak_Warding_Shield
http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Shield_of_the_Scorpion
- Can slot silver on Violet slots, pally capstone breaks DR
http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Ward_of_Undeath
- Can slot silver, already has good, for anyone.

JUST saying, that is a lot of work.

That's exactly my point.
You'd have to craft one of these specific epic shields and be a pally in order to actually get any use out of it.... 20% of the time.... at the cost of of feat.
So you spend a feat, and craft an epic shield, and you only get to use it 20% of the time when it really matters.
I just don't see the point.

Originally Posted by http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Relea...ate_9_Official
Adamantine shields now correctly bypass adamantine damage reduction when shield bashing. Mithral shields now bypass both silver and mithral damage reduction.

OK, I never noticed this.
That at least makes it somewhat viable for a capped pure Pally. But I still fail to see how wasting a feat on a feat starved class for what is basically the first tier.... which everyone gets for free.... of TWF, but happens to be tied to shieids in this case, is worth it.

[-Zyxas-]

That's exactly my point.
You'd have to craft one of these specific epic shields and be a pally in order to actually get any use out of it.... 20% of the time.... at the cost of of feat.
So you spend a feat, and craft an epic shield, and you only get to use it 20% of the time when it really matters.
I just don't see the point.


OK, I never noticed this.
That at least makes it somewhat viable for a capped pure Pally. But I still fail to see how wasting a feat on a feat starved class for what is basically the first tier of TWF tied to shieids is worth it.

Crafted MoPG or...
http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Coronation_Shield
http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Kundarak_Warding_Shield
http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Shield_of_the_Scorpion
- Can slot silver on Violet slots, pally capstone breaks DR
http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Ward_of_Undeath
- Can slot silver, already has good, for anyone.

JUST saying, that is a lot of work.

EDIT: didn't know about mithril, that adds Levik's, Light and Darkness, Skyvault, and randomly produced mithril shields to the list for pallies, as well as mithril shields crafted with pure good or holy for anyone.

Edited about mithril, and see that Epic Ward of Undeath already has good DR bypass so works for fighters and whatever too. I don't see the point in using a shield offensively, unless you're actively tanking with one, or if the TWF thing is somehow true.

[Cam_Neely]

That's exactly my point.

Yes, but you are missing others points here.

A shield is a shield. If you wanted DPS, you would go TWF with a sword in your second hand. People build S&B to move towards the defensive side of DDO. Yes DPS rules here, but not everyone does that. Having a shield in the second hand, along with a sword (or axe ect) in the first hand, is meant to reduce your DPS, but increase your Def. You get higher AC, which could mean upto about 50% less dmg. They are going to (or do?) supply a passive (nonblocking) DR. They supply effects such as

Levik's Defender - +5 Mithral Tower shield (Blocking DR 15 (base 8)): Levik's Defender, Sonic Guard, Healer's Bounty (2% chance of casting Heal spell when damaged)
which can supply
2 Item Set Bonus - +3 Insight Bonus to AC, 20% Additional Melee Threat, Unlisted Fortitude and Will Save +1 (Stacks with most but not Parrying/Greater Parrying)
3 Item Set Bonus - +5 insight AC, 30% Additional Melee Threat (Threat stacks, but only with non-like amounts)

Thats just one example.

Not to mention the increased intim threat generation that S&B gets.

The % dual strike of a shield is tossing a bone to these builds, helping to boost a bit of DPS, and help them hold agro.

Its not always about the DPS

[Calebro]

Yes, but you are missing others points here.

A shield is a shield. If you wanted DPS, you would go TWF with a sword in your second hand. People build S&B to move towards the defensive side of DDO. Yes DPS rules here, but not everyone does that. Having a shield in the second hand, along with a sword (or axe ect) in the first hand, is meant to reduce your DPS, but increase your Def. You get higher AC, which could mean upto about 50% less dmg. They are going to (or do?) supply a passive (nonblocking) DR. They supply effects such as

Levik's Defender - +5 Mithral Tower shield (Blocking DR 15 (base 8)): Levik's Defender, Sonic Guard, Healer's Bounty (2% chance of casting Heal spell when damaged)
which can supply
2 Item Set Bonus - +3 Insight Bonus to AC, 20% Additional Melee Threat, Unlisted Fortitude and Will Save +1 (Stacks with most but not Parrying/Greater Parrying)
3 Item Set Bonus - +5 insight AC, 30% Additional Melee Threat (Threat stacks, but only with non-like amounts)

Thats just one example.

Not to mention the increased intim threat generation that S&B gets.

The % dual strike of a shield is tossing a bone to these builds, helping to boost a bit of DPS, and help them hold agro.

Its not always about the DPS

OK, let's use your example of Leviks.
A pure capped Pally is the only one that's going to break DR with it, and it's going to cost him two feats to do so.
Do you think two feats are worth it for a 20% chance at some extra damage? Your claim that not everyone cares about DPS would indicate that you would not think that two feats are worth spending for a minimal addition to DPS, so we're right back at square one.

He'd be spending two feats to get HALF the benefit of using only the first tier of TWF'ing.
Two feats, on a feat starved class, for a minimal addition to DPS.
If he doesn't care about DPS,m as you claim, then why is he wasting two feats on this?
If he does care about DPS, he's probably not using the shield to begin with.
And don't forget he's a Pally. There are MUCH better uses for those two feats.

I still fail to see the point.