Crafting: Is it for the new player or not?

[dingal]

I keep hearing that it helps the new player as they level and gives people access to good items without the grind.

• Then why do I keep hearing that the good recipes are too inexpensive?
• Why if this is supposed to make good items more accessible are we talking about exponential increases to recipe requirements?
• Why does no one seem to realize that the amount of resource required to obtain the levels to make these so-called cheap recipes is in itself quite substantial?
• Why are you not addressing ML issues which restrict the usefulness of the crafting system at lower levels where it would benefit new players the most?
• Devs? Are you just reading the forums and assuming everyone in DDO is a power gamer and forgetting about the rest of the player base?

Is anyone actually operating under the misconception that newer players have millions of platinum to get themselves to level 60ish in crafting in a reasonable timeframe to start churning out top end devil beaters? When I was new it took me 3 months to cap my first horrifically gimp paladin and I had about 60k in the bank when I finally did it. Assuming that represents the average player (and it doesn't as I quickly elevated to min/maxing jerk) it would have taken me an eternity to reach useful levels in crafting.

The crafting system benefits me and the rest of the power gamer population A LITTLE because we already have most of the best gear we could hope for. Crafting allows us to squeeze out just a teeny bit more but certainly is not game breaking in any way EVEN AT THE CURRENT PRICES.

So let's just be clear here. The system as it is is obviously flawed but for me at least has actually proven to be quite useful despite current limitations. It showed a ton of promise and I was won over in spite of myself.

The system where it is going is a bad thing. It's obvious that you (Turbine) want to drive us to spend points and that's great I get that. We need to buy packs to run the quests to craft the items. Ok, I can even live with that since I'm VIP. But seriously, if you just want to make points off of it just simply add the stupid dried fish, mystical bottle etc to some highly sought after recipes and be done with it. We don't need to have the system more costly than it is today. It will be quite awhile before I get back everything I put into it in terms of value that's for sure.

Finally, if you really want to make $$ add the rest of the ingredients to the store. I personally won't buy them and I'm not a huge fan of having them there but I recognize you're running a business and need to make money so fire away. Just don't list them at a dollar per 100 lessers, that's beyond unreasonable.

[FlyingTurtle]

They're trying to fix something that is fundamentally broken: crafting skill levels.

It's obvious that any industry with a high barrier to entry but massive economies of scale once you get there is going to favor the ones with deep pockets. It's not a good system.

Turbine went, "oh, shoot, we're going to inundate the market with cheap boss beaters, let's get rid of the economies of scale by massively raising production costs".

Guess what, they failed Econ101. All that does is that it either makes the industry nonviable (high cost to entry and high cost of production)... or it favors the ones with deep pockets EVEN MORE.

The only reasonable way to deal with it is to raise the cost of production while reducing the cost of entry (by getting rid of crafting skill levels).

[dingal]

They're trying to fix something that is fundamentally broken: crafting skill levels.

It's obvious that any industry with a high barrier to entry but massive economies of scale once you get there is going to favor the ones with deep pockets. It's not a good system.

Turbine went, "oh, shoot, we're going to inundate the market with cheap boss beaters, let's get rid of the economies of scale by massively raising production costs".

Guess what, they failed Econ101. All that does is that it either makes the industry nonviable (high cost to entry and high cost of production)... or it favors the ones with deep pockets EVEN MORE.

The only reasonable way to deal with it is to raise the cost of production while reducing the cost of entry (by getting rid of crafting skill levels).

If "the market" is the issue then they need to change unbound crafting, not bound. Simply turn that off and get it right. I can assure you there are not a flood of awesome devil beaters on the market in Ghallanda.

[Quikster]

Why am i constantly seeing statements that imply its turbines responsibility to create an environment that new players can also get top end gear in a manner that doesnt cost them much?

New players can craft a decent devil beater for a reasonable cost as crafting currently sits. Might the recipies/drops/decon rates need to be adjusted a little bit? Sure they might. But they dont need to be adjusted so a new guy can bang out +5 hobgeob silver khopeshes with augment slots on every alt they have within a few short months of starting. If anything I say increase the requirements. Require SF pots and yugo pots to make that shard.

[dingal]

Why am i constantly seeing statements that imply its turbines responsibility to create an environment that new players can also get top end gear in a manner that doesnt cost them much?

New players can craft a decent devil beater for a reasonable cost as crafting currently sits. Might the recipies/drops/decon rates need to be adjusted a little bit? Sure they might. But they dont need to be adjusted so a new guy can bang out +5 hobgeob silver khopeshes with augment slots on every alt they have within a few short months of starting. If anything I say increase the requirements. Require SF pots and yugo pots to make that shard.

I've got no problems with the recipes increasing a bit, that's fine. What I'm saying is that the current requirements are very steep for a new player as it is. I'm also not suggesting that it's Turbine's responsibility to do anything other than create a compelling game. It is Turbine themselves that suggested the crafting system would benefit a new player as they level. Which as far as I can tell is simply not the case.

For me it's not a big deal. I sold a couple scrolls, dumped a bunch of plat and started crafting. However, I am a bit of a power gamer and have quite a few resources at my disposal.

[PNellesen]

I've only done crafting as it exists on Live today, but as an experiment I rolled up a new 28pt character on a completely different server than my "home" server just to see what a (very) casual player with absolutely zero plat could do. One thing I noticed immediately - low-level collectables that are used for higher-level shards sell rather well (he's got a little north of 30K Plat now just from collectables). One caveat to this, though, is that the player have some knowledge of the game, either from poring over DDO Wiki or reading here. He's a 2/1 Cleric/Fighter at the moment, and so far has been able to craft a couple elemental resistance items and a Superior Ardor I clickie, and that's only on what he's been able to gather from various quests, he's bought no essences or any other crafting materials off the AH, and hasn't bought anything from any of the vendors. Again, this is just pure casual play, a couple hours a week tops.

So far, I would say the crafting as it currently exists on Live is a reasonable way for a brand new player to be able to get some useful low-level gear that they might not get any other way other than as some random drop in a chest somewhere. It's making my cleric's life somewhat easier than my first character's was.

[dragons1ayer74]

I've only done crafting as it exists on Live today, but as an experiment I rolled up a new 28pt character on a completely different server than my "home" server just to see what a (very) casual player with absolutely zero plat could do. One thing I noticed immediately - low-level collectables that are used for higher-level shards sell rather well (he's got a little north of 30K Plat now just from collectables). One caveat to this, though, is that the player have some knowledge of the game, either from poring over DDO Wiki or reading here. He's a 2/1 Cleric/Fighter at the moment, and so far has been able to craft a couple elemental resistance items and a Superior Ardor I clickie, and that's only on what he's been able to gather from various quests, he's bought no essences or any other crafting materials off the AH, and hasn't bought anything from any of the vendors. Again, this is just pure casual play, a couple hours a week tops.

So far, I would say the crafting as it currently exists on Live is a reasonable way for a brand new player to be able to get some useful low-level gear that they might not get any other way other than as some random drop in a chest somewhere. It's making my cleric's life somewhat easier than my first character's was.

Your own knowledge is making the experience easier.

[PNellesen]

Your own knowledge is making the experience easier.

Agreed, but given the newness of Crafting in general (and my own limited experience with it up to this point) I would still say that it can definitely be beneficial to brand new players who are willing to take the time to learn what they can actually do with it. Now, how the changes that will be coming in 10.1 (once they fix it) will affect this opinion, we'll have to see.

[LordPiglet]

granted, I haven't really played with the crafting system. The most I did was make and enhancement shard, a friend gave me a holy and lesser lawful outsider bane shards. (I already had an existing holy silver gs I wanted to improve it's suffix). From my understanding, those shards are easy enough to make in the bound variety. It's ml 9 as I recall.

The higher end shards holy burst, greater xxx outsider bane are much more expensive and should be, but the base entry does seem to be pretty low.

I was actually planning to look more into crafting, etc during the TR of my FvS, and I might still.

[ShortRanger]

My crafter is sitting at just under level 40 across the board give or take a couple of levels.

He is currently leveling and crafting shards for the now level 8 TR.

What I am seeing is 2 characters running shroud every 3 days and a slowly leveling TR are only gathering enough essences to raise my level by one every week. I have been purchasing lower cost essences as I notice them on AH. Everything goes to the crafter for breaking or selling. Selling because a min level 8 weapon I can sell for 1300 plat or so if I only get level 1 essences from it I am better off selling it than breaking it.


The crafted Items I have made have been great helpers for the TR. But now I am looking at having a hard time keeping his equipment maxed during the gap between his current equipment and when he gets his Green Steel back.

On a good side note: I realized there are Holy shards and Evil outsider bane shards in my bag so I can craft acceptable Harry beaters for the higher guys and do not need the MINIIs. I will be behind the burst damage and 1d6 from optimal but *** it's better than my AH bargains I run now: Metaline of PG hand axe paired with silver holy maiming dwarven axe.

I could drop a Mil or 2 plat and jump the crafter's level but that is not how I want to play the game.

Just some focused yet random observations from a casual gamer.

[TPICKRELL]

What I am seeing is 2 characters running shroud every 3 days and a slowly leveling TR are only gathering enough essences to raise my level by one every week.

Shroud is not a great place to get loot for crafting, because the timer gets in the way.

I've been ransacking the IQ Solo quest for two months now, as well as keeping shroud on timer, and I get several times as much crafting essences from the solo quest.

I'm now at crafting levels 81/79/82. I've spent about a million plat along the way on essences, but I've now recouped all of that by selling some unbound shards on the AH.

Shroud is a good idea because you get greensteel, and completions as well as Canith crafting ingredients. But its far from the best place to gringd for Canith crafting.

[NaturalHazard]

Why am i constantly seeing statements that imply its turbines responsibility to create an environment that new players can also get top end gear in a manner that doesnt cost them much?

New players can craft a decent devil beater for a reasonable cost as crafting currently sits. Might the recipies/drops/decon rates need to be adjusted a little bit? Sure they might. But they dont need to be adjusted so a new guy can bang out +5 hobgeob silver khopeshes with augment slots on every alt they have within a few short months of starting. If anything I say increase the requirements. Require SF pots and yugo pots to make that shard.

i dont mind the grind for the yugo pots personally, but the silver flame pots, I own necro4 and 2 is that enough to get enough favour? If not I guess its good for turbine more incentive for others to buy necro 1 and 3.

but for me oh well tough.

[NaturalHazard]

Shroud is not a great place to get loot for crafting, because the timer gets in the way.

I've been ransacking the IQ Solo quest for two months now, as well as keeping shroud on timer, and I get several times as much crafting essences from the solo quest.

I'm now at crafting levels 81/79/82. I've spent about a million plat along the way on essences, but I've now recouped all of that by selling some unbound shards on the AH.

Shroud is a good idea because you get greensteel, and completions as well as Canith crafting ingredients. But its far from the best place to gringd for Canith crafting.

I run a lot of sins solo, i prefer it to IQ, and i love getting the odd larges and keepsakes.