Alternative Suggestions 10.1 Crafting Updates

[DarkSpectre]

Why can't we just deconstruct these raid items to make higher level quantities of basic greater essences?

Instead it looks like we are getting a completely "different" crafting system requiring extremely rare raid loot to make non-raid loot?

[Tenchi]

I think the issue that a lot of players are contesting is that involving raid loot in the crafting system actually destroys community.

One of the most beautiful things in the DDO community is when people give each other raid loot they cannot use or need. The changes in the crafting system for Update 10.1 does not support this spirit of camaraderie.

Allowing people to deconstruct raid loot into essences would still not address the issue raised by many players and will not mitigate the issue that developers are trying to solve (that some recipes are "too easy").

[IBCROOTBEER]

Sorry man ...

/not-signed ...

we don't want anything happening with the extremely rare and valuable items like this ... it will inflate their value so much that no one will put them for roll , making them even more difficult to recieve.

Keep up the thinking of new alternatives though ... seems the developers might need some help with realistic ideas.

[DarkSpectre]

Personally, I would love to unload most of the old unused raid loot that I have personally piled up for the last 3 years.
I could greatly use the bank space..


The 10.1 Update will take away the incentive players have to participate as the more useful greater banes and cost involved will be too great...

[MaxwellEdison]

My alternative option is to increase the amount of collectibles used. 20 lightning split soarwood for Greater Elemental Bane along with the increased essence costs seems like it would be plenty. This way the devs could still put the brakes on crafting and gives new players (the have-nots) an easier way to catch up to the Haves. They would be able to farm for the collectibles they need, give them to someone to craft unbound, or sell/trade them for plat/items.

[DarkSpectre]

Sorry man ...

/not-signed ...

we don't want anything happening with the extremely rare and valuable items like this ... it will inflate their value so much that no one will put them for roll , making them even more difficult to recieve.

Keep up the thinking of new alternatives though ... seems the developers might need some help with realistic ideas.

Looking at the list in the other threads I see only a few items that I would even see as being valuable...
The extreme rarity is where I mostly have my issues.

The only reason I would even use the new crafting system is to make those end game boss beater type items.
To have to fight over a Dreamsplitter in a raid group to craft something decent makes little sense.

[DarkSpectre]

I think the issue that a lot of players are contesting is that involving raid loot in the crafting system actually destroys community.

One of the most beautiful things in the DDO community is when people give each other raid loot they cannot use or need. The changes in the crafting system for Update 10.1 does not support this spirit of camaraderie.

Allowing people to deconstruct raid loot into essences would still not address the issue raised by many players and will not mitigate the issue that developers are trying to solve (that some recipes are "too easy").

I agree with you for the most part. Especially the DDO community, that should always come first.
If you look at enough of the various forum threads over time you'll see the topic of someone selling a piece of raid loot or rolling then trading loot as flame material for calling someone out in these forums.

The fact is you can already sell these raid items for small amounts of plat at a vendor.
So I don't see a problem with getting a relatively small amount of essences for the unwanted items.

Look at how many times you can't even get someone to take a named item at the end of a raid or how many times you get an end reward you can't use and selling it off is the only option.
I don't see how getting essences is a game breaking thing...

[DarkSpectre]

My alternative option is to increase the amount of collectibles used. 20 lightning split soarwood for Greater Elemental Bane along with the increased essence costs seems like it would be plenty. This way the devs could still put the brakes on crafting and gives new players (the have-nots) an easier way to catch up to the Haves. They would be able to farm for the collectibles they need, give them to someone to craft unbound, or sell/trade them for plat/items.

I like this alternative...

While 20 lightning split soarwood are extremely rare, just increasing the quantity keeps things within reach which gives someone incentive to grind.
It doesn't penalize someone who prefers solo play or doesn't raid who still wants to participate in crafting.

[Gauthaag]

i like the sol katra crafting system. Why dont they give a specific trait which can be crafted to extra (no suffix/prefix) slot into crafted item that require using specific named item to do it?

[steelblueskies]

THE PROBLEMS.

rarity. raids have timers. end rewards and chests have ransack. this is an across the board derp. all recipes require siberys or khyber fragments. we can say that's fine. now some recipes require a flawless siberys dragonshard.
ie the best form, equivalent to around a million siberys fragments. not so fine anymore.
some of the requisite items are tome of legends turn ins. a few require doing this twice for one craft. thats 2 full sets of tome pages. some require other special rare junk. how many times do you want to run the ransack lottery in invaders for a crafting weapon? some plat for it you say? if you pull it maybe.

unbound. presently bob the crafter with decent skill levels can have you bring him materials and return you a shard. bound and unbound items needed? can't be nice anymore, can't work for profit with your mats anymore. then theres the little niggling issue of unbound crafting folowing the formula of being twice bound level for a shard and three times bound cost. so unbound vampirism will be above 150, cost a fortune in essences, AND THREE CHAOSBLADES??? the eff?

market value insanity. so we can use junk tomes that are typically within reach for newbies to make the new crafting specific itemtype added on top of everything else, +2 tomes, +3 tomes, +4 tomes, epic tokens, or astral diamonds. success or fail they get eaten to some degree.
we just got flawless siberys shards added to the argonessen favor reward for feat swaps in response to the spellpass feat swap nightmare. value flux in rubberband fashion is bad.

we get a proclaimed fix to the chest and end reward loot issues noone can definitively track down, by separating essences to their own roll. we don't need yet more junk cluttering the loot tables. we don't need repurposing the grindy rare, and especially not the bound stuff.

lets use an object example. instead of specific raidloot you used the option for the recipe to accept any of ml x or above. no loot would be safe.

you then try using just shard of power/great shard of power/supreme shard of power. ransack+rarity+ lootsharing as a community vs grind function again fly the coop.

as an additonal kicker you chose to place some requirements in end rewards for chains like threnal, then list a second requirement in the form of a potential end reward for the same chain. so run the chain twice and pray to complete one craft attempt.

but that whole specter is out. noone will fully trust you won't go this route at some point in the future so hoarding at least one of everything in speculation is the way to go.

so how do you fix it? you revert your essence drop rates and return rates to the point they were at originally on lam. you also scrap your already in progress level 20 content which apparently either involves a crapton of halflings riding dragons, or more demons+devils. replace em with something else.

[theboyftw]

it didn't need to be fixed. it was grindy and it was expensive. why mess with it at all? because one or two people per server powered themselves to level 100?

[Gauthaag]

it didn't need to be fixed. it was grindy and it was expensive. why mess with it at all? because one or two people per server powered themselves to level 100?

i smell sour grapes here

[steelblueskies]

i smell sour grapes here

84/77/86. those figures don't matter worth a flying monkeys banana. go check the main feedback thread sitting at over 500 replies. then take a look through the individual posters backlogs. levels or participation vary. it is a sink for time and plat, or time and money, or plat and money. how much is entirely a function of how much you put in. guy like lithic or me - he bumps a school 18 levels in twelve minutes, and spends 12 hours in a day questing and looting, spends some real cash for boosters. me i spent 4 -12 hours some days doing the slow grind while reading or watching other stuff. most people are not going to be doing either one.

for a long term system it was fine, as it would take a long time for most to get there, and the cost would be over that long period of time. it was heavily disadvantageous to those who only spent a few hours a week in game at all, however.

if they made it faster, those with time would be gods in no time with huge banks of back materials.

if they made it slower, the shorter time allotted people would be screwed completely.

a middle ground solution might have been to guarantee a 1 shard = 1 levelup, but chance to fail still exists. chance of failure only decreases when crafts of a given level are successful repeatedly.

the obsession with exp bars however seems to have won, as has ransacking grind insanity.

[Gauthaag]

i fully agree with u. i just dont like posts like "nah, let it be, crafting is useless" done imho mostly by people who didnt participate in process either cause theyre lazy ....or its too boring to them.

[wisdomstorment]

I've always thought that there should be some sort of natural progression when it comes to effects that get more potent. For example, to craft a Greater Bane weapon:

a) Craft Lesser Bane weapon as per current system.
b) Craft Bane shard and use it to upgrade crafted Lesser Bane weapon.
c) Craft Greater Bane shard and use it to upgrade crafted Bane weapon.

And an extra collecteable at each step to control the quantity, with the collectable getting increasingly rare as the effect progresses. For example, require a semi-rare collectable to move from Lesser Bane to Bane and a rare collectible (Lightning-Split Soarwood for example) to move from Bane to Greater Bane.

Haven't thought this out fully, but it kinda makes sense to me from a game-reality point of view.

[Aelonwy]

I've always thought that there should be some sort of natural progression when it comes to effects that get more potent. For example, to craft a Greater Bane weapon:

a) Craft Lesser Bane weapon as per current system.
b) Craft Bane shard and use it to upgrade crafted Lesser Bane weapon.
c) Craft Greater Bane shard and use it to upgrade crafted Bane weapon.

And an extra collecteable at each step to control the quantity, with the collectable getting increasingly rare as the effect progresses. For example, require a semi-rare collectable to move from Lesser Bane to Bane and a rare collectible (Lightning-Split Soarwood for example) to move from Bane to Greater Bane.

Haven't thought this out fully, but it kinda makes sense to me from a game-reality point of view.

Collectibles already have tiers... some of it might overlap with Stone of change crafting but if the whole idea is to make top level recipes harder to make and more ingredient intensive then as the recipe level increases and the essence cost increases the collectible cost could increase not only in number but in tier and thus rarity.

For example something that requires 4 string of prayer beads on its lowest level iteration, might go up to to 8 strings of prayer beads on its next or instead could go up 8 small wooden idols (the next tier of that collectible) then 12 shamanic totems (the third tier of the collectible). This would greatly increase the difficulty of making shards of high level recipes, which could cause crafting xp to grind to a halt or slow to a crawl. Certainly using the rarest of collectibles in large batches for a single recipe will make it difficult for ppl to mass craft particular shards. The difficulty would be in finely tuning the recipes and numbers so it would still be possible not only for ppl to craft what they need but to also use the recipes for leveling their crafting skills.

[Symar-FangofLloth]

Cross posting from the other thread, since this is discussing alternatives:

I was thinking, and maybe this is still a bad idea, but if they really still want to have named items somehow involved, let ANY named item, raidloot or otherwise, crunch into some generic ingredient (like those purified dragonshards) that you need for the high-tier items.

So if you really wanted to you could still crunch your Chattering Ring, but you could also grind up some small Shroud ingredients, your Rusted Shamshir, and that Nicked Greatsword you no longer have any need for.

[macubrae]

IMHO it isn't the individual prefixes or suffixes that require adjusting. A +1 GEOB greatsword is a level six item. It's when you make it +5 or holy burst or both that make it great. The adjustment, if any, should be on the shards of potential. A +5 sword is meh, a holy burst sword is okay, and a GEOB is pretty good, but none of them need to be individually restricted. A +15 shard of potential, essentially making the item perfect to accept any of the greatest enchantments and the preceding potential shards are what make these items (new word, sorry) uberable. I can see a +15 potential shard requiring blood, sweat, tears, calloussed fingers, and carpal tunnel surgery, but GEOB or holy burst by themselves, nah.

Maybe it's just me.