Monk Question

[The_Mud_Man]

Without getting into great detail and a long discussion, what's the basic differences between a dex/weapon finesse monk and a str monk?

[Baahb3]

Usually the Dex monk will do less damage and have a higher AC and better reflex save.

Str Monks will generally do more damage but have a lower AC and reflex saves.

To keep it really simple

[Zirun]

Dex monks work better with less build points. Running a Strength build on 28 points is tough when you need at least 15 Dex for I/GTWF, as well as good scores in Str, Con, and Wis.

Dex (Light) builds are also generally better at soloing, due to their higher AC and (most likely) higher saves (especially since they're frequently Halfling). Strength builds need to have significant healing amp to have the soloability of a Dex build, at least until you start getting into content where AC doesn't mean as much.

[-Zyxas-]

Dex monks work better with less build points. Running a Strength build on 28 points is tough when you need at least 15 Dex for I/GTWF, as well as good scores in Str, Con, and Wis.

Dex (Light) builds are also generally better at soloing, due to their higher AC and (most likely) higher saves (especially since they're frequently Halfling). Strength builds need to have significant healing amp to have the soloability of a Dex build, at least until you start getting into content where AC doesn't mean as much.

The statement I highlighted in red doesn't really register for me. Strength builds can have more than enough AC in low level content (have a level 12 that never gets hit in normal sands, strength based). And when AC becomes too hard to be useful, amp is usually not enough to keep you alive either, but I guess the AC is not soloable and the amp is not soloable so you're right that they're the same soloability.

---- Now to talk about stuff not directly pertaining to the quote, more general ----
Dex does work better with less points, although my first monk was 14 str 16 dex 14 con 8 int 14 wis 8 cha human strength based and worked decently.

Strength based monks are more inclined to take/use fire stances, which also boosts their ki allowing them to launch off more stuns/shadow fades/anti-tainted strikes/ToDs/... while Dex monks struggle to keep up with ki in quests that don't have large encounters until they get Oremi's set from tower of despair or decide to use fire stance when they want to do more but don't have the ki. IMO this is the biggest difference. Str vs Dex only has a gap of ~5 damage per hit if you don't neglect strength (shouldn't...), and a slightly larger AC gap as fire reduces AC (from wis) while air increases AC (from dex) and dex will be more inclined to use AC gear.

You can always use dex while leveling and then change to str at cap for dps for raids and such (or just stick with one if you're a tightwad like me who doesn't want to spend TP on LR/GRing).

Just my take on it, I'm sure some people disagree slightly.

[HettarDDO]

The main reason I've always gone dex based is that you have one less stat to worry about putting points into. A monk has Str,Wis,Dex and Con to consider when planning your character. Not having to worry about Str helps alot.

A Dex based monk has high Dex which means good AC and To-Hit bonuses. One less stat to worry about means you can put more points into Wis. High wisdom is big for a monk and a must for a light monk imo. Wis affects AC but more importantly affects the DC's of alot of your abilities like Stun Fist,Q-Palm and almost all of the Shintao attacks.

After they increased the DC's for stuff in epics I redid my monk so I would be able to still stun things like I used to. I have a 47 DC for my stun fist now. That would be impossible to do going str based. You could but you'd be gimped. A 47 DC is great in epics but if you can't hit stuff then it's worthless.

[The_Mud_Man]

What I'm planning to do is level as light path and respec to dark path somewhere around level 10+. I have 2 builds in mind(one's halfling, other half-orc), just can't make a decision on which to go with. I've played a dex based monk before and enjoyed it, but I've read str based can do more dps.

So, general consensus would be dex would be better suited for leveling due to higher AC and to-hit?

[le_goat]

i have both types and i can tell you the h/orc will do alot more dps than a halfling. but, the h/orc is not as survivable.

depends on your playstyle really. if i had to do it over again id go light based h/orc str/wis to lvl 9 and switch to dark to get ToD.

[DragonTroy]

The main reason I've always gone dex based is that you have one less stat to worry about putting points into. A monk has Str,Wis,Dex and Con to consider when planning your character. Not having to worry about Str helps alot.

A Dex based monk has high Dex which means good AC and To-Hit bonuses. One less stat to worry about means you can put more points into Wis. High wisdom is big for a monk and a must for a light monk imo. Wis affects AC but more importantly affects the DC's of alot of your abilities like Stun Fist,Q-Palm and almost all of the Shintao attacks.

After they increased the DC's for stuff in epics I redid my monk so I would be able to still stun things like I used to. I have a 47 DC for my stun fist now. That would be impossible to do going str based. You could but you'd be gimped. A 47 DC is great in epics but if you can't hit stuff then it's worthless.

you do realize that strength affects how much damage you do right? it doesnt really matter if you can stun in epics if you need 3 raging barbs to kill the mob after you stun it.

monks arent like other classes. they really cant be min/maxed.at least not nearly as much as other classes.

a monk needs balance. str,dex,con,and wis. all of these are important stats for the monk. and NONE of them should be ignored, or you will always fail in some aspect of being a monk.

[~herbstlich]

Dex build has more attacks and better double-strike chances, but Str ones do more damage with single attack. Dex has more AC, Str has more amplification. Str has better ki regeneration. Dex probably\usually will have better DCs due to no stance penalties to Wisdom.

[The_Mud_Man]

Hmm, think I'll just play around with both and see which I like better.

[-Zyxas-]

you do realize that strength affects how much damage you do right? it doesnt really matter if you can stun in epics if you need 3 raging barbs to kill the mob after you stun it.

monks arent like other classes. they really cant be min/maxed.at least not nearly as much as other classes.

a monk needs balance. str,dex,con,and wis. all of these are important stats for the monk. and NONE of them should be ignored, or you will always fail in some aspect of being a monk.

^ This. I HIGHLY recommend 6 points in strength on a dex monk, 4 at the very least. You still need to do damage. Strength monks should have 6 points in wisdom, so their monk abilities aren't gimped - stuns, QP, and other special attacks are an integral part of a monk. Con should always be 6 or 10 points (10 only if going for earth 4 or for tanking which is a completely different idea...), and Dex should be 15 or 16 unless you have a +3 tome available (14) or are very dex focused (18). Monks need BALANCE to live up to their potential, using their abilities, surviving, and dps.

[Braegan]

a monk needs balance. str,dex,con,and wis. all of these are important stats for the monk. and NONE of them should be ignored, or you will always fail in some aspect of being a monk.

+1

Also, on the note of stances affecting wis & dcs. You don't have to always be in Fire Stance (or even have it) for a str based monk to still be effective. I actually find it's a nice balance to be a str based monk and go between GM Wind and GM Mountain.

From my experience I would not make another finesse monk again (unless some big game change came about). My first life was a halfling, dex/wis light monk. Sure he felt untouchable and could solo until I ran into anything with regen or some method of healing. I couldn't take down those mobs to save my life. TR'd into a halfling, str, dark and world of difference. Sure I get hit more often, but I can kill regen'ing/healing mobs before they kill me and then it's a lil WoB and be on my way.

[Adrian99]

Some players really like having a high AC and don't care that they can't kill tough opponents even to save their own lives. For these, there is the weapon finesse / DEX build. Other players would rather kill their enemies quickly and finish the quest sometime today. For these, there is the STR build. There may in fact be other differences, but this is the one I find most noticeable.

[Battery]

+1

Also, on the note of stances affecting wis & dcs. You don't have to always be in Fire Stance (or even have it) for a str based monk to still be effective. I actually find it's a nice balance to be a str based monk and go between GM Wind and GM Mountain.

From my experience I would not make another finesse monk again (unless some big game change came about). My first life was a halfling, dex/wis light monk. Sure he felt untouchable and could solo until I ran into anything with regen or some method of healing. I couldn't take down those mobs to save my life. TR'd into a halfling, str, dark and world of difference. Sure I get hit more often, but I can kill regen'ing/healing mobs before they kill me and then it's a lil WoB and be on my way.

stunning blow solves healing mobs for me, usually regenning mobs too with the extra damage outpacing their regen

[Blackheartox]

Strenght based monks go fire stance, combined with Jidz-Tet'ka it gives 25% more healing amp. I played a dex based halfmonk, now switching to a str based human healingamp light monk. So far im loving my strenght monk more, well i have the past life feat so its undersatndable that im better now.
But i cant say how much i love the healing amp bonus. But in any case +10 to jump can be awesome sometimes as well. Like in Epic Big top

[DragonTroy]

stunning blow solves healing mobs for me, usually regenning mobs too with the extra damage outpacing their regen

yeah, stun is an easy way to deal with those kinds of mobs. also until elite vale and such higher content, you can usually hit these kinds of mobs with a quivering palm and get rid of the fairly quickly. not quite sure why, but they have low fort saves(minus orange names, usually better saves). maybe the mob clerics are dump stat-ing con or something. a player character would save on just about everything vs palm, except on a 1 of course, considering how low the DC usually is, unless you are a straight wis monk

[DragonTroy]

+1

Also, on the note of stances affecting wis & dcs. You don't have to always be in Fire Stance (or even have it) for a str based monk to still be effective. I actually find it's a nice balance to be a str based monk and go between GM Wind and GM Mountain.

From my experience I would not make another finesse monk again (unless some big game change came about). My first life was a halfling, dex/wis light monk. Sure he felt untouchable and could solo until I ran into anything with regen or some method of healing. I couldn't take down those mobs to save my life. TR'd into a halfling, str, dark and world of difference. Sure I get hit more often, but I can kill regen'ing/healing mobs before they kill me and then it's a lil WoB and be on my way.

my monk generally goes with GM fire stance for the extra ki, just to spam all my stuns and moves and such. then on big bosses i go with the 3rd tier earth stance. more hp and the x3 crits are just beautiful when you are standing there for a few minutes watching #s fly and mashing void 4 and other moves. i would like to actually like to try tanking with this, but everyone thinks a monk tanking is craaaazy.>.> ive got incite

[Soleran]

Some players really like having a high AC and don't care that they can't kill tough opponents even to save their own lives.

That is a false statement especially with dark monks, they still get tod and generally use windstance which lets them fire off 2d20 and 2d10 electric strikes plus their regular strikes which kills things in epics just fine.

Fire stance does get bonus ki but a less effective fire strike in raids as well as no doublestrike.

Finesse monks are fine with how monks currently work in game with the spread of stats, that said play what you like in the end gear can make up alot of the difference in build designs.

[Fomori]

Strenght based monks go fire stance, combined with Jidz-Tet'ka it gives 25% more healing amp. I played a dex based halfmonk, now switching to a str based human healingamp light monk. So far im loving my strenght monk more, well i have the past life feat so its undersatndable that im better now.
But i cant say how much i love the healing amp bonus. But in any case +10 to jump can be awesome sometimes as well. Like in Epic Big top

My str based monk spends most of his time in GM Wind stance. I'll switch to GM Fire stance when I need ki/healing amp with JT bracers/+2 to hit. You only need an 18 for GM Wind, and since you'll be planning a 17 dex for GTWF, you'll only need to pop 1/5 of level up points to get that stance.