Holy Burst = Silver Flame Pots. Discuss

[DrNuegebauer]

To be completely honest, I don't mind some of these kinds of requirements.

PERHAPS the big prblem of the crafting system is that it allowed us to make gear (very easily) that surpassed raid gear.

Holy Burst is a pretty powerful prefix - making it rare is no big deal IMO. I'm sure that's an unpopular view, but if I had to grind out a stack of Shrouds to make a LitII, then why shouldn't I have to grind out a stack of favour to make a holy burst GEOB weapon?

As to the premise that 'this means players would have to buy the adventure packs' --> well NO, they would not HAVE to buy them, they could content themselves with Holy instead of Holy Burst. The game is FTP, but it only remains a viable game if people spend money on it. You want Holy Burst, buy the packs.

Necro Packs are kinda underrated - the end quest of I, II, III is great for XP. And IV is a very good pack.

Oh - and I do NOT have silver flame favour on my crafter.

[Victorhammer]

I understand the whole idea and concept behind ultra high end gear and Turbine wants there to be a limited amount of it in the game. The favor concept is kinda on the right track. It is using a player earned level of growth required before you can construct something of ultra high quality.

Ok many are against this type of favor because it requires people to buy (not buy so much as a forced type of play requirement) I.E. quest packs that many do not like to play, in order to accomplish the goal of making the high end weapon.

Instead tie the ultra high end weapons to true reincarnation. You need to be TR once for some and maybe a second time for even better higher end weapons. That will limit the amount of ultra high end weapons in the game.
The players will most likely spend money on true hearts of wood to get there. They can get there any way they choose and can do it the free way if they want to grind for it. These weapons do not have to be BTA or BTC either but bound to TR once or bound to TR twice. When players see these for sale in the AH they will want to strive for a TR ed toon. It might even be incentive for them to spend more money in the ddo store to get there faster so they too can own there own special (insert name weapon). How ever these players will be rare. I assume that the weapon will also carry a level requirement to use it so a level 1 TR toon can not use his ultra powerful weapon til he grows into it. Also seeing the recipe in the crafting hall which requires a TR ed toon to make will provide incentive to many to get there. But again you can get there any way you want even free. Ultra high end weapon recipes should follow this progression IMHO. And it flows with the games natural progression so far. And it will be added incentive for many gamers as a goal to achive. It is full of win!

I guess I was not clear with this post. I mean to remove all the exotic requirements in these recipes like the silver flame potions and the tomes and replace them with the TR requirement as that is the closest thing we have to above level 20. In fact then in order to use these a toon would again have to reach level 20 after TR ing. That would make them rare. Even rarer to reach level 20 a third time after a second TR requirement.

A problem with this approach however, if Turbine ever decides to go beyond the level 20 cap.

[gloopygloop]

Holy Burst includes Holy and offers extra damage on a critical hit (even against enemies that are immune to the extra base damage on a critical).

Without Improved Critical, Holy Burst offers:
Quaterstaff: +2d6 on a 20 = 7 damage in 20 swings
Greataxe: +3d6 on a 20 = 10.5 damage in 20 swings
Greatsword: +2d6 on a 19 or 20 = 14 damage in 20 swings
Heavy Pick: +5d6 damage on a 20 = 17.5 damage in 20 swings
Scimitar/Rapier: +2d6 on a 18 - 20 = 21 damage in 20 swings

Only Holy Burst on a Scimitar, Rapier, Kukri or Falchion offers better damage increase than Holy plus an additional +1 without Improved Critical. (edit: and that's only if you're hitting on a 2+. If you're not hitting on a 2+, then more + To Hit *always* offeres the most bang for your buck.)

With Improved Critical, Holy Burst offers:
Quaterstaff: +2d6 on a 19 or 20 = 14 damage in 20 swings
Greataxe: +3d6 on a 19 or 20 = 21 damage in 20 swings
Greatsword: +2d6 on a 17- 20 = 28 damage in 20 swings
Heavy Pick: +5d6 damage on a 19 or 20 = 35 damage in 20 swings
Scimitar/Rapier: +2d6 on a 15 - 20 = 42 damage in 20 swings

Only Holy Burst on a Scimitar, Rapier, Kukri or Falchion offers a better damage increase than Holy plus an additonal +2 even with Improved Critical. (edit: and that's only if you're hitting on a 2+. If you're not hitting on a 2+, then more + To Hit *always* offeres the most bang for your buck.)

When you consider that Holy Burst is a +4 shard and Holy is a +2 shard, I don't see a justification for requiring people to purchase 5 adventure packs and complete nearly every single quest in there (including the least commonly PUGged raid in the game at least on Normal) on Elite.

[GotSomeQuestions]

I don't see a justification for requiring people to purchase 5 adventure packs and complete nearly every single quest in there (including the least commonly PUGged raid in the game at least on Normal) on Elite.

For what it's worth, I had Silver Flame pots before I managed to assemble my first Sigil. That was the full 400 favor without stepping foot in Litany OR Abbot. Necro 1-4 and Catacombs on elite, free to play stuff on elite, Demon's Den on normal = 402 favor. So you can get the potions without doing the raid. That doesn't mean that getting the potions is easy, or a fair requirement, though.

[Ytteri]

Just got silver flame favour today.

In necro 3 I had cursed crypt elite, one of the flagging quests hard, the rest on normal. (I'm premium so I've had to do n/h/e). Didn't do in the demon's den at all. EVERY other silver flame quest I had on elite. It's pretty ridiculous.

It wouldn't be so bad if some of the silver flame quests were, you know, fun.

[Morosy]

It wouldn't be so bad if some of the silver flame quests were, you know, fun.

Well there's your problem, you aren't doing this for fun, you are helping the Silver Flame rid the world of evil; isn't that already worth it?

And if they actually make the potions BTA, I wouldn't mind getting one of my characters the favor required.

[gwenniez]

i agree with the op its stupid to force people to buy necro 1~4 and catacombs
just to craft 1 shard..

yes compared to other ingredients it remains stupid..

demons blood requires only 1 adventure pack

yuggloth pots require only 1 the same adventure pack..

large devil scales can be pulled from that same adventure
pack also and the shroud adventure pack

blood of dragons can be gotten from gianthold adventure pack..

so why why why do we require 5 adventure packs just to get
this 1 shard ?

and its not like they are good adventure packs to begin with..

most of em are ****.

[Postumus]

Ok many are against this type of favor because it requires people to buy (not buy so much as a forced type of play requirement) I.E. quest packs that many do not like to play, in order to accomplish the goal of making the high end weapon.

I don't see a problem with requiring f2p players to pay for content that is available to paying players. F2p players and favor grinders should not have the same advantages and benefits that those who pay for the game do.

The Necro quests are not particularly difficult, and and with the exception of one or two quests, are actually fun to play and worth quite a bit of xp.

[Postumus]

i agree with the op its stupid to force people to buy necro 1~4 and catacombs
just to craft 1 shard..

What's stupid is for Turbine to give away everything for free. F2P players should not have access to the same items, equipment, and crafting that VIPs or premium players do.

400 silver flame favor is a bit high, but holy burst is one of the best effects one can add to weapon that there is. It should require SOME effort to obtain.

[yk49]

TRing doesnt reset your crafting level.
TRing does reset your favor and tomes eaten. does it make sense?
yea, i guess you can stock up your silverflame pots and then TR for the crafting purpose but what im concerned is inconsistent game design/lack of grand design on this game.

[Postumus]

TRing doesnt reset your crafting level.
TRing does reset your favor and tomes eaten. does it make sense?
yea, i guess you can stock up your silverflame pots and then TR for the crafting purpose but what im concerned is inconsistent game design/lack of grand design on this game.

So don't TR your crafter? Seems like a pretty easy workaround.

[Victorhammer]

TRing doesnt reset your crafting level.
TRing does reset your favor and tomes eaten. does it make sense?
yea, i guess you can stock up your silverflame pots and then TR for the crafting purpose but what im concerned is inconsistent game design/lack of grand design on this game.

My point was to remove the favor requirement and remove the silver flame potions and other extremely hard to get dual purpose items like tomes and replace them with the TR requirement instead. The silver flame potion requirement was to limit the number of these weapons in the game by making the required recipe hard to accomplish. Same for the tomes used. It is Turbines way to limit the use and building of these and perhaps at the same time reduce the number of tomes in the AH. I see that move as one to promote more buying of tomes from the ddo store.

I am saying remove those unique requirements from the recipe and replace them with the TR requirement.
However should Turbine ever decide to remove the level 20 cap then this could be a problem for the crafting system. The TR and the second TR right now are the closest thing we have to advancement beyond level 20.

[Victorhammer]

I don't see a problem with requiring f2p players to pay for content that is available to paying players. F2p players and favor grinders should not have the same advantages and benefits that those who pay for the game do.

The Necro quests are not particularly difficult, and and with the exception of one or two quests, are actually fun to play and worth quite a bit of xp.

That is not and has not been Turbines goal so far for this game. If you want a game that plays out like you are suggesting with different benefits between paying and free then play EQ or EQ2. That is how they do things.

[Postumus]

That is not and has not been Turbines goal so far for this game.

Ke ke keke ekekekee! Do you even play this game?

[gwenniez]

What's stupid is for Turbine to give away everything for free. F2P players should not have access to the same items, equipment, and crafting that VIPs or premium players do.

400 silver flame favor is a bit high, but holy burst is one of the best effects one can add to weapon that there is. It should require SOME effort to obtain.

good job ignoring my whole proof that its not fair and just include the first sentence..

i still stick with my former statement.

buying 5 crappy adventure packs just to get one of the best shards is not fair..

evil outsider bane only need 1 adventure pack

lawful outsider bane only need 1 adventure pack

blood of dragons 1 adventure pack

demonsblood 1.. adventure pack

so why holy burst needs 5!! is beyond me..

this is just a marketing trick to let people buy necro/catacombs adventure packs,because
any sane person has that last on his wish list.

[zwiebelring]

I again feel cheated by the people responsible for this decision. Again, hardcore grinding is rewarded, casual gaming is punished.

I feel cheated because crafting is a tool to avoid luck. Linking the crafting to random named loot is a contradiction to this point of view and punishing all those who could stick a goal in matter of time. Now, they have to set goals as a matter of droprates. Yeah wow, the innovative crafting has become a shroudcrafting clone. In a worse way.

I would like to have a focus on people who actually can afford continous money flow and no no-life hardcore grinders. I am disappointed and right now I don't like it. Sad, Turbine or whoever made this decision. Very sad.

If you just adapted the stupid lootsystem. More static rewards then. Really...

Ah nvm then, happy rincerepeatmas....

[Sarisa]

i agree with the op its stupid to force people to buy necro 1~4 and catacombs
just to craft 1 shard..

yes compared to other ingredients it remains stupid..

Agree.

demons blood requires only 1 adventure pack

And it's an unbound ingredient, so it can be bought by those without that pack.

yuggloth pots require only 1 the same adventure pack..

These, however, are more difficult to get than Silver Flame potions due to the difficulty of the quests.

large devil scales can be pulled from that same adventure

Available in Devil's Assault, Vale of Twilight, and Devil's of Shavarath. Since they're unbound items, they can still be bought by those without any one of those packs

blood of dragons can be gotten from gianthold adventure pack..

Also VoN. Potentially the F2P Mired in Kobolds Sinvala optional, but I don't know for sure. Requiring 1 of them, while not something I like, is still something that I could accept. Requiring 5 of them is an insane grind.

so why why why do we require 5 adventure packs just to get
this 1 shard ?

and its not like they are good adventure packs to begin with..

most of em are ****.

They're not terrible packs per say, but aside from Necro IV, they're not something I would recommend any premium player to buy until they're well established, and ready to start TR'ing. They're simply not worth it for a first life character.

About the only POSSIBLE good thing that might come of this is that the devs might see just WHY these packs are so hated. Fixing the flagging system for Necro 1 and 2 to match 3 would help. Fixing the missing mobs in the Tomb of the Tormented optional would help (you can wait for hours for respawns without breaking sarcophagi and still not get those last few). Making Necro 3 less frustrating in general. Making Phase Spiders remain solid for longer.

[redraider]

The simple solution is to completely ignore this idiotic form of crafting that even made WoW's system look good.

Go back to playing the game. Move that lvl 17 3 time TR along to 18 already. I mean it's onLY 2.3M more XP to cap so you can TR again!

[KillEveryone]

Something like the Silver Flame pots doesn't bother me since I can buy them. It isn't like they are really rare like raid loot.

It does however move the crafting out of the F2P and into needing adventure packs. That doesn't really bother me either since it will get people to either grind out the TP for the packs or pony up some revenue for the game. Yes it is for one shard but that still doesn't bother me. No one is forcing anyone to craft. If someone wants that shard but doesn't want to buy those packs, there are people that will be able to make one and I'm sure someone will offer their services.

[ellamonster]

actually thats no rarity according to how hated those necro II and III quests are. i have several capped toons and none with more than 200 SF favor, all supporting my crafter closing to such craft lvl. its not such a tedious grind as doing those necro quests, heh

this!

I have 3 TRs and 3 other capped toons and NONE of them ever have had 400 Silver Flame favor. I can't stand the high level Necro packs, and as far as I am concerned they are practically unPUGable and I don't have a big group of friends to run them.