Holy Burst = Silver Flame Pots. Discuss

[Carpone]

More people in the game with Silver Flame Healing Potions is a good thing.

[FlyingTurtle]

So I was a bit scared by the grind needed to go from 30+ to 70+ crafting levels. Because I'm a very casual player.

Now I don't have to worry about it at all, because it's just straight out impossible instead of just somewhat impractically grindy to make the shards I want.

Yay, I guess?

[Diyon]

I've eight favour capped characters at the moment... drink yugo's like guinness and SF pots instead of cures on many ... BUT, my crafting is only in the 30's. WHY? well simple I like to actually log on and play the game rather than stand arround in some crafting hall clicking away...

I left runescape because even though I had a 144 level character and max'd out slayer, woodcutting, flteching and cooking and a decent mining... I saw no point in standing someplace anymore doing some repetitive mundane boring thing.

At least in a quest you get to react to what's going on some. Combat is exciting ... factory like workstations are not.

The real silly thing about DDO these days is the dev's do everything to create an atmosphere where players do not play well together ... and single play solo options are prefered. - Good example of the "new" crafting system.... 12 players run VoD elite when a +3 wis tome pops for the barb in chest, a cleric asks is it up for roll? The Barb says no - I'm taking it to craft. The barb has rights to do with as he wishes, the cleric may be ok with that right though ... but in the back of his mind the next time he groups with that barb he'll remember ... and when the encrusted pops for the cleric in ToD ... if he gives it away am sure he'll remember the barb's attitude prior.

I completely agree here. I can't ever imagine doing that to a +3 tome unless I got it solo'ing on a character that would absolutely never use it. I wouldn't really want to group with people that would take that for crafting especially if there are alternatives (if there weren't alternatives, I wouldn't blame the player at all, just the situation they've been forced into). That being said:

Ya, its a little ridiculous for this one shard. On the other hand, I can deal with that.

I'm more concerned about the raid loot and +3 tomes. Hopefully they decide to fix the raid loot error (or whatever items are "like" dreamspitter and chattering ring) before this goes live, or very soon after at the least.

[Darkrok]

I'm more concerned about the raid loot and +3 tomes. Hopefully they decide to fix the raid loot error (or whatever items are "like" dreamspitter and chattering ring) before this goes live, or very soon after at the least.

Like I said in other threads I'll be canceling my VIP membership on one account and suspending all spending on all 4 of my accounts if they put any raid loot or +3 tomes (which is also raid loot) as a crafting item. I don't care if they put crafting beyond anything anyone but the most ridiculous 10-15 hour a day players can do. If that's their goal then fine.

But by putting raid loot or even rare loot (like spectral gloves) into crafting they're destroying the community of DDO and it's that community that's the only reason I haven't already moved on to another game. Right now if a friend needed a pair of Spectral Gloves and I had one sitting on a rarely played alt I'd be likely to loan it to them. Under the new system I'd have already destroyed those gloves to make a +4 attack shard. Under the current system, you get an item you don't need for the current toon like a Stormreaver's Napkin or +3 dex tome you put it up for roll with the people that do need it. Under the new system? The Napkin you'll probably hoard if you're a crafter just in case it's needed for some future shard. And the +3 tome? Forget about it...that's golden right there!

In addition to that issue, even the addition of the +1 tomes is a mistake. If those are the easiest ways to make these special shards then the price on those for the AH will skyrocket. That part wouldn't make me want to leave the game but it certainly does no favors to new players.

Honestly, I'm a bit numb now. I feel like the dev's have decided to make this a completely different game where people have incentives to treat each other poorly and crafting becomes a pay to win system. I'm disgusted and very close to moving on based on the shrug of the shoulder response from the dev's up to this point.

[badbob117]

I personally think that favor rewards as well as named loot should be left out of the crafting tables. The favor rewards really put a damper on toons who plan on tr,ing with their main crafter.

I pity the poor bastard who sets out to create a Holy-burst maul of greater undead bane...


This may be the biggest and most badass achievement in the game.

The sad part is you could just make a triple positive maul in a few shroud runs that does more damage, comes with a clicky and has a chance to insta-kill undead stuff..

lets see, Silver flame favor , full set of tome page trade ins (omg). Bone flute, couple of tomes/epic tokens/astral diamonds, couple hundred divine mats for crafting And a boatload of grinding to get to that level.

Hmmmmm kinda makes me love shroud that much more....

patch 10.1 is a bad fricken joke!!!!

[sirgog]

I've done the Necro 3 favor on two characters ever. Both have since been TRed. One still has leftover Silver Flame potions, but can't buy any more and isn't my crafting toon anyway.

400 SF favor is just painful and dull to attain. Worst of all, now that the Abbot isn't needed and a lot of the quests are way under level cap, there is no challenge to it - except the 'challenge' of not falling asleep while doing some of them.

And my crafter is a character that has always been self-healing. SF potions are not at all something they'd ever consider acquiring.

[TheDearLeader]

Well sounds like you and dingal and likely others are in the same boat.

A fix could be to make SF pots BTA.

It doesn't fix the fact that *a* toon would need 400 Favor. 18 Bucks, or VIP.

Crafted has NEVER been specificly BTC. There is and has always been a way to get BTA gear: Disjunct an already BTA item. ~~~Snipsnip~~~Not calling you out for lacking foresight in that, just pointing out that BTA options were always there, if not as easy as they are now.

This is off the topic at hand. I'm not going to spend needless time discussion a loophole, or further than I already have my reason for choosing 1 toon as a crafting toon over any other. End of discussion.

It doesn't cost that until someone actaully specificly buys all those packs just for the sole purpose of crafting a holy burst shard.
Trying to infer that will EVER happen, is really jumping the gun. Thus why it IS abot you, and about me, and about everyone else who might potentially be put in that situation.

You need *all* packs. A frugal premium player may only buy Necro II, or Necro IV, or may just acknowledge that there's enough XP in the game that one could never set foot in Catacombs, or the Necropolis, and still make it to 20 easily.

You act like it's some stretch of the imagination that someone might not want to buy a pack, or packs to craft a single shard.

Personally I think the changes are stupid too, but infering that this one shard really needs to change, when there are far more redicules ones in the new setup is a waste of time. The ones that need tome pages, raid loot, or ultra rare named loot are the really dumb ones.

Now you're putting words in my mouth, sir.

I never said this one was priority #1, or the worst change, or all other shards are cool, but oh man *this one* better be fixed!

I said this thread was focused discussion on this Shard. You want to discuss the other ones, and alternatives? Make a thread yourself. I may even find myself in agreement with your proposed issues and complaints.

As for everyone else who has responded - Please, keep the thread on topic of this Shard. I know we're all unhappy with the multitude of changes going on in 10.1, but please focus.

[barryman5000]

Well to stay on track, if holy burst requires 400 favor and all that jazz I don't think I will be playing DDO much longer.

I was getting a little bored with the breadth of content but now that they chose to let these items be the crafting items, I am just sad . . . . Either someone paid no attention to the requirements or they truly want me to have every pack available to make awesome gear.

Wasn't the point of the urn, broccoli, etc to make it so that people had to own different packs? I mean use those items . . . hell make them tradeable. A good crafter will source their items but a BTC silver flame pot is just about as ******** as using a chaosblade in crafting . . . . they would never do that . . . .

*listens to buddy tell me about vampirism*

(My Cursing was auto-edited) .

[Tirisha]

This needs to change. Being forced into the horror of grinding Necro Favor on a Toon that can't even use the silver flame pots just to make Holy Burst shards is terrible burden. That's not to mention the very well pointed out fact that not all premium players even have all the necro packs. Your players don't deserve this Turbine, we have enough hoops to jump through as it is.

[gloopygloop]

Yea already got all that on my crafter..

Now do you have a crafter at sufficiently high enough lvl to craft holy burst shards, yet not have 400 sf favor?
If yea.. Well giving what an insane grind it is to get to that point, I'd say your a rarity.

I don't have 400 silver flame favor on ANY of my characters and I do just fine currently. My crafting character currently has 69 Arcane and 69 Divine crafting levels. He also has every Orchard quest on Elite, Litany on Normal and no Abbot completions. He has 0 Silver Flame favor beyond that because I just plain don't like those quests and I didn't need them for XP since this is my first life.


I have crafted 9 Holy Burst shards so far and I'll probably craft as many more as I possibly can before the upate 10.1 drops and I just stop crafting entirely. I wish I had never started crafting at all.

This may not actually effect anyone ever.. Given the incredible requirement just to be able to attempt it, it's something only the most hardcore of players will ever reach - and those types of players tend to have every pack, if not VIP.

This change and the other changes like it will make me stop crafting entirely unless the new recipies are actually made reasonable again. And when I say, "made reasonable again", I mean actually reasonable. I don't mean "I'm gonna stab you and shoot you. Oh, I changed my mind and I'm only going to stab you".

[Ungood]

This problem came about because some people would not give it a rest that "raid quality gear could be made via Crafting" namely with the whole Holy Silver Outsider Banes

Of course making a fuss about how this new crafting invalidates raids and raid level gear, is like begging for the whole system to be Nerfed to death and perhaps beyond.

So, Well, Turbine as they said bluntly, they want to protect the effort put in by it's members who ran raids and got the gear, etc, etc, etc. and played the game.

Thus they were given a choice of what they could do to fix this problem. They could:

• Remove "Metal" weapons from the game.

If they make it so silver, cold iron, flametouched iron, etc, no longer dropped, that would solve the problem of crafted weapons being better then Green Steel. As the ideal combos could no longer be obtained. The problem would be fixed and life would go on with the game, abet some people would not be happy, and I would not blame them either.

• Remove the Shards from the crafting list

If they removed Banes this too would solve the issue of making better then raid gear from the crafting system, as it stands the Banes are what tips the scales. Again. some people would not be happy, but still good pre-raid weapons could be made to give players solid gear to work with.

• Put Obscene requirements to make the shards that are the "problem".

This, id what they did, or are planning to do, and as it stands is being met with overwhelming opposition. Which I say is a very poor idea and bad plan.

Since it has become a problem, I would rather they just remove the shard then go over top crazy like this.

[Darkrok]

This, id what they did, or are planning to do, and as it stands is being met with overwhelming opposition. Which I say is a very poor idea and bad plan.

Since it has become a problem, I would rather they just remove the shard then go over top crazy like this.

There's fourth and fifth options though. They're obvious, don't break the rest of the game, and anyone (being nice here and leaving out pejoratives) could figure it out. That Turbine didn't disappoints me greatly.

4) Use the broccoli, etc as the rare item. Make it btc, bta, or tradeable, whatever they want to do for rarity's sake but use something that has no purpose outside of crafting.

5) Add a NEW item, make it as rare as you want, and require it for crafting.

It's already bad enough that they destroyed random loot on the AH/brokers for new players by making it more profitable to deconstruct. Now they're going to do the same to named loot, raid loot, and tomes? Like I said, I've had enough at that point. It simply wouldn't be the same game anymore.

[Quikster]

I dont mind the sf pots as crafting ingred. Its not like every recipe requires one. Dont have sf favor? dont make that shard. I am not in favor of raid loot being used if thats going to be in the equation in any shape. But the sf pots, meh whatever. Grinding out sf favor on one alt isnt a huge deal.

[Ungood]

4) Use the broccoli, etc as the rare item. Make it btc, bta, or tradeable, whatever they want to do for rarity's sake but use something that has no purpose outside of crafting.

Right, thanks. I am still seeing a bit red from this. But yes. Good point.

• Use the "Special Crafting" stuff they have already put in the game, and add it to those recipes.

By adding in some of these things to make Banes harder to make, they can lessen the flooding of these items into the game, and maybe bring back some balance to the system again.

Good call!

[TheDearLeader]

I dont mind the sf pots as crafting ingred. Its not like every recipe requires one. Dont have sf favor? dont make that shard. I am not in favor of raid loot being used if thats going to be in the equation in any shape. But the sf pots, meh whatever. Grinding out sf favor on one alt isnt a huge deal.

Provided you are VIP or own 18 dollars worth of those specific packs.

I'm VIP, you're VIP last I checked. Sure, doesn't hurt us too bad. But those that aren't get a real kick in the teeth here.

Oh and btw... >.> come do every single SF quest on Elite for me? Including Abbot? I'll be a good piker, promise extra special.

[sirgog]

This problem came about because some people would not give it a rest that "raid quality gear could be made via Crafting" namely with the whole Holy Silver Outsider Banes

Of course making a fuss about how this new crafting invalidates raids and raid level gear, is like begging for the whole system to be Nerfed to death and perhaps beyond.

So, Well, Turbine as they said bluntly, they want to protect the effort put in by it's members who ran raids and got the gear, etc, etc, etc. and played the game.

Thus they were given a choice of what they could do to fix this problem. They could:

• Remove "Metal" weapons from the game.

If they make it so silver, cold iron, flametouched iron, etc, no longer dropped, that would solve the problem of crafted weapons being better then Green Steel. As the ideal combos could no longer be obtained. The problem would be fixed and life would go on with the game, abet some people would not be happy, and I would not blame them either.

• Remove the Shards from the crafting list

If they removed Banes this too would solve the issue of making better then raid gear from the crafting system, as it stands the Banes are what tips the scales. Again. some people would not be happy, but still good pre-raid weapons could be made to give players solid gear to work with.

• Put Obscene requirements to make the shards that are the "problem".

This, id what they did, or are planning to do, and as it stands is being met with overwhelming opposition. Which I say is a very poor idea and bad plan.

Since it has become a problem, I would rather they just remove the shard then go over top crazy like this.

They should, IMO, have significantly upped the requirements to obtain a craftable silver or cold iron blank. Maybe by having Alchemical Silver add +2 or +3 to the item's Shard of Potential requirements (but not the min level), or by making Disjunction remove metal types but add recipes to add them.

Want a +4 Holy Evil Outsider Bane weapon? No problem.
Want the same in Silver? Now you need to do something significant.

[Tirisha]

They should, IMO, have significantly upped the requirements to obtain a craftable silver or cold iron blank. Maybe by having Alchemical Silver add +2 or +3 to the item's Shard of Potential requirements (but not the min level), or by making Disjunction remove metal types but add recipes to add them.

Want a +4 Holy Evil Outsider Bane weapon? No problem.
Want the same in Silver? Now you need to do something significant.

It should have been a crafting recipe all along.

[Darkrok]

While we're at it on great ideas that are likely to be ignored, the real problem is these outstanding combo weapons. To me that means that it's not the shards that need made harder - it's the shards of potential. I like the suggestion for metals to add to potential needed (but not min level). Now make the upper level shards of potential MUCH more expensive and/or difficult to make in a way that (a) does not involve raid loot, rare loot, or tomes and (b) does not have a pay to win component. Problem solved. If I want to make a greater bane weapon it should be just as easy as it currently is. If I want to make a +5 silver holy burst of greater evil outsider bane? MUCH MUCH harder is in order. Just don't mess with raid loot and don't make it pay to win.

[olBillDoor]

Well I was slowly working up my crafter... but plat is looking a lot more appealing now...

[Chette]

My main issue with this (other than the fact that many non VIP players can't get the required favour for silver flame potions) is that I selected my main TRing character to be my crafter, as they are the one I play the most, and thus they are the one that pulls the most vendor trash for deconstructing.

As a result, this character spends about 90% of her life in a state where she could not possibly have the required favour because she is leveling. Even if I were to get the required favour on her (why I would bother when she is a self-healer I don't know) I would then have to make sure to stock up on potions and keep them around just to make these shards.

There should be NO bind to character (or BTA for that matter) items used for crafting, as it is against the spirit of having a single account crafter who can create items for all of your characters.