Holy Burst = Silver Flame Pots. Discuss

[TheDearLeader]

All righty, hi folks. This particular topic is related specifically to Holy Burst shards ONLY. I understand that there is a lot going on with crafting right now, but I want to address this one from a few different angles.

Holy Burst 100% crafting success cost Live, Update 10:
Divine Crafting Level 72
21 G. Good Essences
192 L. Good Essences
2 Lodestones
25 Siberys Dragonshard Fragments.

Holy Burst 100% crafting success cost Update 10.1:
All of the above
Purified Eb. Dragonshard Fragments
1 Silver Flame Healing Potion.

For those of you that don't know, a Silver Flame Healing Potion is bought from the Silver Flame Vendor after having achieved over 400 Silver Flame Favor. To illustrate this more fully, I am going to use the Wiki to break down the Favor, by pack, as well as the DDO Store to illustrate lowest-cost pricing in DDO points, without the usage of sales.

--Free to Play:
06 - Bringing the Light
15 - The Church and the Cult
18 - In the Demon's Den
--Pay to Play:
66 - Catacombs - 250 TP
66 - Necro 1 - 250 TP
81 - Necro 2 - 350 TP
90 - Necro 3 - 350 TP
111 - Necro 4 - 850 TP
Alternately, Necro 1-4 Bundle Pack - 1495 TP

Now we play with some simple math. There is a maximum of 453 Silver Flame Favor out there. Removal of *any* of the 5 P2P packs, and it's associated favor, means you cannot reach over 400 Silver Flame Favor required in order to buy Silver Flame Potions, and therefore cannot craft a Holy Burst Shard.

Now, under these simple assumptions, we can then to the math, and see that Turbine Point wise, you need at least 1745 Turbine Points to buy these 5 Adventure packs, at their lowest cost, not including sales.

What can I surmise from this?

Turbine expects us to:

1. Be Pay to Play, or Spend 18 USD.
2. Run 31 Quests, and 1 Raid, on Elite.
3. Be at least level 18 on our crafting toon.
4. Deconstruct 3~4 +1 Tomes.
5. Deconstruct roughly 7 Holy Burst items.

All after having *already* reached crafting level 72, and to what end? To craft. a. single. shard.

Please, discuss.

[barryman5000]

I want to make holy burst shards for my 20's only . . . . Extra ingredients are crazy.

If they were gonna do something like this then make it something novel but not awesome like holy burst. It'd make it sought after but not a game changer.

[Dandonk]

The entire new idea of crafting is so bad I'm forced to believe that Baldrick has come up with this scheme...

.. "I have a cunning plan" indeed...

[Ivan_Milic]

The entire new idea of crafting is so bad I'm forced to believe that Baldrick has come up with this scheme...

.. "I have a cunning plan" indeed...

lmao
I think he had one good plan in season where Hugh Laurie was king/prince.

[Shade]

All after having *already* reached crafting level 72, and to what end? To craft. a. single. shard.

Please, discuss.

Yea already got all that on my crafter..

Now do you have a crafter at sufficiently high enough lvl to craft holy burst shards, yet not have 400 sf favor?
If yea.. Well giving what an insane grind it is to get to that point, I'd say your a rarity.

If not, why are you playing devils advocate?
This may not actually effect anyone ever.. Given the incredible requirement just to be able to attempt it, it's something only the most hardcore of players will ever reach - and those types of players tend to have every pack, if not VIP.

[Eladiun]

Now do you have a crafter at sufficiently high enough lvl to craft holy burst shards, yet not have 400 sf favor?
If yea.. Well giving what an insane grind it is to get to that point, I'd say your a rarity.

I think you overestimate how many premium player that buy all 4 Necro packs.

I agree with the OP the reqs for this shard are sort of insane.

[NaturalHazard]

I think you overestimate how many premium player that buy all 4 Necro packs.

I agree with the OP the reqs for this shard are sort of insane.

It kinda sucks for me, i got necro 2 and 4 bought them last year, I havent reached 72 yet long way off only in the early 50s and late 40's. Im glad that I didnt break the bank to level up as fast as possible i prob would get to 50 something just as the update goes live then haha cant craft what I want, and be totally broke.



maybe they could give us something to do with those stacks and stacks of chains/bones and horns?

[dingal]

Yea already got all that on my crafter..

Now do you have a crafter at sufficiently high enough lvl to craft holy burst shards, yet not have 400 sf favor?
If yea.. Well giving what an insane grind it is to get to that point, I'd say your a rarity.

If not, why are you playing devils advocate?
This may not actually effect anyone ever.. Given the incredible requirement just to be able to attempt it, it's something only the most hardcore of players will ever reach - and those types of players tend to have every pack, if not VIP.

I don't think he's playing devil's advocate. You might be misreading.

He's pointing out the insane requirements that are a barrier AFTER an already insane grind just to get to the level at which you can craft them in the first place.

It's..........well lets just say I've got enough infractions.

[TheDearLeader]

Yea already got all that on my crafter..

Now do you have a crafter at sufficiently high enough lvl to craft holy burst shards, yet not have 400 sf favor?
If yea.. Well giving what an insane grind it is to get to that point, I'd say your a rarity.

If not, why are you playing devils advocate?
This may not actually effect anyone ever.. Given the incredible requirement just to be able to attempt it, it's something only the most hardcore of players will ever reach - and those types of players tend to have every pack, if not VIP.

Shade. Quit acting like you're the average player, or the average crafter, and perhaps what you're saying will hold more weight.

You have Silver Flame pots, so anyone who wants to craft has Silver Flame pots? C'mon dude.

For the record though - No. I don't have that Silver Flame Favor. Not even close. My level 78/76/73 crafter is currently a level 14, banking 15, TR. I didn't even *touch* Catacombs, or Necro 1, going through the lower levels, because they're that unneeded.

That said, I know people who are into crafting that haven't ever stepped foot in Abbot, on any toon, more less their crafter.

Why did I do crafting on that toon specifically? It was my "youngest" toon. Least amount of gear, and lets not forget that when crafting started, it was all Bound to Character. It made sense that the person who would *need* gear the most would be that toon.

Regardless, I could, can, and probably will get Silver Flame Favor with this toon someday. But yanno what? This thread isn't about me - this thread is about a Shard. A single shard costing 18 bucks and a conservative value of 15 in-game-hours to craft.

[barryman5000]

... This thread isn't about me - this thread is about a Shard. A single shard costing 18 bucks and a conservative value of 15 in-game-hours to craft.

THIS, OMG THIS.

Also, don't let shade troll you. He is always talking about a challenge and maybe crafting will give him one.

[voodoogroves]

THIS, OMG THIS.

Also, don't let shade troll you. He is always talking about a challenge and maybe crafting will give him one.

A while back Junts said something and prefaced it by "this isn't for those of us who basically have everything in the game already". Others tend to forget that; they've been playing for years longer than many and have a fair amount of pp, gear, etc. and are quick to discount the time involved.


I have zero toons with 400 SF favor. The thought of having to now grind one up just to craft holy burst shards in the future isn't appealing at all.

I suspect there are plenty of players who play more than me that feel similar ... and far far more that play less than I do and will never reach that mark or desire to.

[barryman5000]

A while back Junts said something and prefaced it by "this isn't for those of us who basically have everything in the game already". Others tend to forget that; they've been playing for years longer than many and have a fair amount of pp, gear, etc. and are quick to discount the time involved.


I have zero toons with 400 SF favor. The thought of having to now grind one up just to craft holy burst shards in the future isn't appealing at all.

I suspect there are plenty of players who play more than me that feel similar ... and far far more that play less than I do and will never reach that mark or desire to.

Well if anybody was gonna like the new crafting system . . .

Also I forgot, is this one of the threads that I am supposed to /signed or /not signed?

[Postumus]

A while back Junts said something and prefaced it by "this isn't for those of us who basically have everything in the game already". Others tend to forget that; they've been playing for years longer than many and have a fair amount of pp, gear, etc. and are quick to discount the time involved.


I have zero toons with 400 SF favor. The thought of having to now grind one up just to craft holy burst shards in the future isn't appealing at all.

I suspect there are plenty of players who play more than me that feel similar ... and far far more that play less than I do and will never reach that mark or desire to.

Even though getting 400 might be an unsavory journey for a lot of players, at least once you are there you can simply purchase as many silver flame pots as you need to craft. For the rare drops or end rewards like fish, broccoli, vase, and whatever else, you'd have to farm the same quest over and over and only get one at a time.

But I'm probably in the minority since I like most of the Silver Flame quests (except the swim in necro 2), so my characters usually end up with favor in the 300s before I move on to something else.

[Emili]

THIS, OMG THIS.

Also, don't let shade troll you. He is always talking about a challenge and maybe crafting will give him one.

I've eight favour capped characters at the moment... drink yugo's like guinness and SF pots instead of cures on many ... BUT, my crafting is only in the 30's. WHY? well simple I like to actually log on and play the game rather than stand arround in some crafting hall clicking away...

I left runescape because even though I had a 144 level character and max'd out slayer, woodcutting, flteching and cooking and a decent mining... I saw no point in standing someplace anymore doing some repetitive mundane boring thing.

At least in a quest you get to react to what's going on some. Combat is exciting ... factory like workstations are not.

The real silly thing about DDO these days is the dev's do everything to create an atmosphere where players do not play well together ... and single play solo options are prefered. - Good example of the "new" crafting system.... 12 players run VoD elite when a +3 wis tome pops for the barb in chest, a cleric asks is it up for roll? The Barb says no - I'm taking it to craft. The barb has rights to do with as he wishes, the cleric may be ok with that right though ... but in the back of his mind the next time he groups with that barb he'll remember ... and when the encrusted pops for the cleric in ToD ... if he gives it away am sure he'll remember the barb's attitude prior.

[Diyon]

I've eight favour capped characters at the moment... drink yugo's like guinness and SF pots instead of cures on many ... BUT, my crafting is only in the 30's. WHY? well simple I like to actually log on and play the game rather than stand arround in some crafting hall clicking away...

I left runescape because even though I had a 144 level character and max'd out slayer, woodcutting, flteching and cooking and a decent mining... I saw no point in standing someplace anymore doing some repetitive mundane boring thing.

At least in a quest you get to react to what's going on some. Combat is exciting ... factory like workstations are not.

The real silly thing about DDO these days is the dev's do everything to create an atmosphere where players do not play well together ... and single play solo options are prefered. - Good example of the "new" crafting system.... 12 players run VoD elite when a +3 wis tome pops for the barb in chest, a cleric asks is it up for roll? The Barb says no - I'm taking it to craft. The barb has rights to do with as he wishes, the cleric may be ok with that right though ... but in the back of his mind the next time he groups with that barb he'll remember ... and when the encrusted pops for the cleric in ToD ... if he gives it away am sure he'll remember the barb's attitude prior.

I completely agree here. I can't ever imagine doing that to a +3 tome unless I got it solo'ing on a character that would absolutely never use it. I wouldn't really want to group with people that would take that for crafting especially if there are alternatives (if there weren't alternatives, I wouldn't blame the player at all, just the situation they've been forced into). That being said:

Ya, its a little ridiculous for this one shard. On the other hand, I can deal with that.

I'm more concerned about the raid loot and +3 tomes. Hopefully they decide to fix the raid loot error (or whatever items are "like" dreamspitter and chattering ring) before this goes live, or very soon after at the least.

[Persiflage]

Shade. Quit acting like you're the average player, or the average crafter, and perhaps what you're saying will hold more weight.

You have Silver Flame pots, so anyone who wants to craft has Silver Flame pots? C'mon dude.

For the record though - No. I don't have that Silver Flame Favor. Not even close. My level 78/76/73 crafter is currently a level 14, banking 15, TR. I didn't even *touch* Catacombs, or Necro 1, going through the lower levels, because they're that unneeded.

That said, I know people who are into crafting that haven't ever stepped foot in Abbot, on any toon, more less their crafter.

Right here. I'm at 90/85/86, having bust my b***s since crafting was released. I have exactly 69 SF favor, because I don't like a lot of those quests. BtC items for crafting is stupid, requiring X amount of favor equally so. The ENTIRE POINT of crafting, for me, is that I don't have to run content I don't want to, I just need to run content. And yes, I'm VIP. And no, I've never run Abbot, because it's one of those raids that's hard to get into if you've never done it... my caster is nearly flagged, out of ten toons, and that's it.

I got to that level through sheer hard work, as I've only been playing 8 months and didn't even have a million plat across all my toons. I've traded pretty much every non-bound desirable item I own - tomes, large ingredients, tap shreds, you name it - to get the essences to reach those levels, working literally hours every day to get there, and now... Well, I look like pretty much of an idiot, don't I? I can't describe how twisted up I'm feeling about these changes. I wish, I really wish, that the outpouring of opposing sentiment would be enough to prevent the update going to the live server, and in a more reasonable world it would be, but... yeah, well. "Upset" doesn't really cover it.

I'm with Boolz on pretty much every point. Holy Burst of Greater Bane isn't that big a deal, SHOULDN'T BE that big a deal, it's the fact that the only end-game content we have is chock-full of devils and that older content drops stuff that is mostly useless that's the issue here.

And as Boolz said, "Cannith Crafting was already full of fail for anything not DR breakers or specific twink gear. It just can't match up to named/raid/epic items in terms of slot consolodation, ML, or effects in slots that don't get those effects. There's a reason people wear Seeker +6 on a trinket but don't touch Seeker +10 on a weapon. Belt of Brute Strength is ML 9 for STR +6 and GFL. What would the crafted equal be? For trash I'm still going for LitII, and was planning on Min II until lvl20 when I was going to upgrade to specific crafted beaters. I'll just stick to Greensteel now."

Cannith Crafting as it stands a useful adjunct to running the raids you like for your consolidation gear: if you run lots of toons, it lets you make plenty of stuff that's "good enough" to tide you over until you FINALLY pull that specific shiny you've been grinding for. Post-changes, it'll be dead in the water.

[Chai]

Right here. I'm at 90/85/86, having bust my b***s since crafting was released. I have exactly 69 SF favor, because I don't like a lot of those quests. BtC items for crafting is stupid, requiring X amount of favor equally so. The ENTIRE POINT of crafting, for me, is that I don't have to run content I don't want to, I just need to run content. And yes, I'm VIP. And no, I've never run Abbot, because it's one of those raids that's hard to get into if you've never done it... my caster is nearly flagged, out of ten toons, and that's it.

I got to that level through sheer hard work, as I've only been playing 8 months and didn't even have a million plat across all my toons. I've traded pretty much every non-bound desirable item I own - tomes, large ingredients, tap shreds, you name it - to get the essences to reach those levels, working literally hours every day to get there, and now... Well, I look like pretty much of an idiot, don't I? I can't describe how twisted up I'm feeling about these changes. I wish, I really wish, that the outpouring of opposing sentiment would be enough to prevent the update going to the live server, and in a more reasonable world it would be, but... yeah, well. "Upset" doesn't really cover it.

I'm with Boolz on pretty much every point. Holy Burst of Greater Bane isn't that big a deal, SHOULDN'T BE that big a deal, it's the fact that the only end-game content we have is chock-full of devils and that older content drops stuff that is mostly useless that's the issue here.

And as Boolz said, "Cannith Crafting was already full of fail for anything not DR breakers or specific twink gear. It just can't match up to named/raid/epic items in terms of slot consolodation, ML, or effects in slots that don't get those effects. There's a reason people wear Seeker +6 on a trinket but don't touch Seeker +10 on a weapon. Belt of Brute Strength is ML 9 for STR +6 and GFL. What would the crafted equal be? For trash I'm still going for LitII, and was planning on Min II until lvl20 when I was going to upgrade to specific crafted beaters. I'll just stick to Greensteel now."

Cannith Crafting as it stands a useful adjunct to running the raids you like for your consolidation gear: if you run lots of toons, it lets you make plenty of stuff that's "good enough" to tide you over until you FINALLY pull that specific shiny you've been grinding for. Post-changes, it'll be dead in the water.

Yeap.

Crafting was looking to be a GREAT alternative for those people who didnt want to grind out raids and epics on a schedule. Belt of brute strength doesnt drop from trees. Lit2 requires grinding raids only to be slightly better to continue grinding raids. While cannith crafting isnt point for point as good it seriously was looking to be a suitable alternative to the grind.

Now it will require the same type of in game repetition grind just to make a few good items.

[Quikster]

Yeap.

Crafting was looking to be a GREAT alternative for those people who didnt want to grind out raids and epics on a schedule. Belt of brute strength doesnt drop from trees. Lit2 requires grinding raids only to be slightly better to continue grinding raids. While cannith crafting isnt point for point as good it seriously was looking to be a suitable alternative to the grind.

Now it will require the same type of in game repetition grind just to make a few good items.

IMO it still is. You might run titan 100+ times before you see the belt. You can get sf pots and crafting levels much much easier.

[Gratan]

Yea already got all that on my crafter..

Now do you have a crafter at sufficiently high enough lvl to craft holy burst shards, yet not have 400 sf favor?
If yea.. Well giving what an insane grind it is to get to that point, I'd say your a rarity.

If not, why are you playing devils advocate?
This may not actually effect anyone ever.. Given the incredible requirement just to be able to attempt it, it's something only the most hardcore of players will ever reach - and those types of players tend to have every pack, if not VIP.

I guess i am a rarity then. I have 400+ SF favor on only one of my 38 toons and it is not my crafter. But if they insist on the insane additions to the crafting I wont be crafting anyways after it goes live, and yes i can craft holyburst shards atm.

[Shade]

I guess i am a rarity then. I have 400+ SF favor on only one of my 38 toons and it is not my crafter. But if they insist on the insane additions to the crafting I wont be crafting anyways after it goes live, and yes i can craft holyburst shards atm.

Well sounds like you and dingal and likely others are in the same boat.

A fix could be to make SF pots BTA.

re: dearleader..
Yea im obviously not an average player. Im not a player turbine cares to cater for. Im not a player that will get have his opinion have any impact on this.

I am a player questioning yours and others reasoning. Your putting words in my mouth I never said.

Making any assumption of what players have or have not is just pointless. The point of the forum is the submit feedback, so we can just say if we would be effected at all, change shouldn't be made for those who don't exist is my point.

Why did I do crafting on that toon specifically? It was my "youngest" toon. Least amount of gear, and lets not forget that when crafting started, it was all Bound to Character. It made sense that the person who would *need* gear the most would be that toon.

Crafted has NEVER been specificly BTC. There is and has always been a way to get BTA gear: Disjunct an already BTA item.
I knew this, and knew crafting would eventually get higher requirements, thus I made my crafting character my oldest and best geared character that essentially has nearly nothing to gain from crafting.
Not calling you out for lacking foresight in that, just pointing out that BTA options were always there, if not as easy as they are now.

Regardless, I could, can, and probably will get Silver Flame Favor with this toon someday. But yanno what? This thread isn't about me - this thread is about a Shard. A single shard costing 18 bucks and a conservative value of 15 in-game-hours to craft.

It doesn't cost that until someone actaully specificly buys all those packs just for the sole purpose of crafting a holy burst shard.
Trying to infer that will EVER happen, is really jumping the gun. Thus why it IS abot you, and about me, and about everyone else who might potentially be put in that situation.

Personally I think the changes are stupid too, but infering that this one shard really needs to change, when there are far more redicules ones in the new setup is a waste of time. The ones that need tome pages, raid loot, or ultra rare named loot are the really dumb ones.

So far we have several players that may lack the SF favor on their crafter, but have at least a character with it.. So instead of whining about potential scenarios that may never happen, i'd suggest a solution of BTA potions.