Holy Burst = Silver Flame Pots. Discuss

[TheDearLeader]

All righty, hi folks. This particular topic is related specifically to Holy Burst shards ONLY. I understand that there is a lot going on with crafting right now, but I want to address this one from a few different angles.

Holy Burst 100% crafting success cost Live, Update 10:
Divine Crafting Level 72
21 G. Good Essences
192 L. Good Essences
2 Lodestones
25 Siberys Dragonshard Fragments.

Holy Burst 100% crafting success cost Update 10.1:
All of the above
Purified Eb. Dragonshard Fragments
1 Silver Flame Healing Potion.

For those of you that don't know, a Silver Flame Healing Potion is bought from the Silver Flame Vendor after having achieved over 400 Silver Flame Favor. To illustrate this more fully, I am going to use the Wiki to break down the Favor, by pack, as well as the DDO Store to illustrate lowest-cost pricing in DDO points, without the usage of sales.

--Free to Play:
06 - Bringing the Light
15 - The Church and the Cult
18 - In the Demon's Den
--Pay to Play:
66 - Catacombs - 250 TP
66 - Necro 1 - 250 TP
81 - Necro 2 - 350 TP
90 - Necro 3 - 350 TP
111 - Necro 4 - 850 TP
Alternately, Necro 1-4 Bundle Pack - 1495 TP

Now we play with some simple math. There is a maximum of 453 Silver Flame Favor out there. Removal of *any* of the 5 P2P packs, and it's associated favor, means you cannot reach over 400 Silver Flame Favor required in order to buy Silver Flame Potions, and therefore cannot craft a Holy Burst Shard.

Now, under these simple assumptions, we can then to the math, and see that Turbine Point wise, you need at least 1745 Turbine Points to buy these 5 Adventure packs, at their lowest cost, not including sales.

What can I surmise from this?

Turbine expects us to:

1. Be Pay to Play, or Spend 18 USD.
2. Run 31 Quests, and 1 Raid, on Elite.
3. Be at least level 18 on our crafting toon.
4. Deconstruct 3~4 +1 Tomes.
5. Deconstruct roughly 7 Holy Burst items.

All after having *already* reached crafting level 72, and to what end? To craft. a. single. shard.

Please, discuss.

[barryman5000]

I want to make holy burst shards for my 20's only . . . . Extra ingredients are crazy.

If they were gonna do something like this then make it something novel but not awesome like holy burst. It'd make it sought after but not a game changer.

[Dandonk]

The entire new idea of crafting is so bad I'm forced to believe that Baldrick has come up with this scheme...

.. "I have a cunning plan" indeed...

[Shade]

All after having *already* reached crafting level 72, and to what end? To craft. a. single. shard.

Please, discuss.

Yea already got all that on my crafter..

Now do you have a crafter at sufficiently high enough lvl to craft holy burst shards, yet not have 400 sf favor?
If yea.. Well giving what an insane grind it is to get to that point, I'd say your a rarity.

If not, why are you playing devils advocate?
This may not actually effect anyone ever.. Given the incredible requirement just to be able to attempt it, it's something only the most hardcore of players will ever reach - and those types of players tend to have every pack, if not VIP.

[Bodic]

I already made that point a favor requirement to Craft is the worst thing they did let alone the imbalance of High tier crafting lets be Honest GEOB is way easier to get than GUB via U10.1 standards GUB requires coronation mace(tome pages) and bone flute(deleras) vs LDS and Demons Blood

now the PEDF cost 1 for 1 Epic Dungeon Token not expensive but they equate tath 1 EDT to being = +1 tome or 1 Astral diamond to me an Astral Daimond is worth more than a "The Bloodstone" why Because I honestly think more Bloodstones have dropped in this game than astral diamonds for all toons on every server combined.

+1tome =trash, but doesnt drop super often its just has no value for me to keep it in my inventory even now w/U10.1 giving it value. EDT's take less space, and have more value.

[Postumus]

Well, the silver flame pot seems a bit steep, but overall I don't have a problem with it.


The Silver Flame favor seems much easier to obtain than all the astral diamonds and dragons bloods necessary for a chance to create some of the other recipes.

[Eladiun]

Now do you have a crafter at sufficiently high enough lvl to craft holy burst shards, yet not have 400 sf favor?
If yea.. Well giving what an insane grind it is to get to that point, I'd say your a rarity.

I think you overestimate how many premium player that buy all 4 Necro packs.

I agree with the OP the reqs for this shard are sort of insane.

[dingal]

Yea already got all that on my crafter..

Now do you have a crafter at sufficiently high enough lvl to craft holy burst shards, yet not have 400 sf favor?
If yea.. Well giving what an insane grind it is to get to that point, I'd say your a rarity.

If not, why are you playing devils advocate?
This may not actually effect anyone ever.. Given the incredible requirement just to be able to attempt it, it's something only the most hardcore of players will ever reach - and those types of players tend to have every pack, if not VIP.

I don't think he's playing devil's advocate. You might be misreading.

He's pointing out the insane requirements that are a barrier AFTER an already insane grind just to get to the level at which you can craft them in the first place.

It's..........well lets just say I've got enough infractions.

[Gauthaag]

actually thats no rarity according to how hated those necro II and III quests are. i have several capped toons and none with more than 200 SF favor, all supporting my crafter closing to such craft lvl. its not such a tedious grind as doing those necro quests, heh

[TheDearLeader]

Yea already got all that on my crafter..

Now do you have a crafter at sufficiently high enough lvl to craft holy burst shards, yet not have 400 sf favor?
If yea.. Well giving what an insane grind it is to get to that point, I'd say your a rarity.

If not, why are you playing devils advocate?
This may not actually effect anyone ever.. Given the incredible requirement just to be able to attempt it, it's something only the most hardcore of players will ever reach - and those types of players tend to have every pack, if not VIP.

Shade. Quit acting like you're the average player, or the average crafter, and perhaps what you're saying will hold more weight.

You have Silver Flame pots, so anyone who wants to craft has Silver Flame pots? C'mon dude.

For the record though - No. I don't have that Silver Flame Favor. Not even close. My level 78/76/73 crafter is currently a level 14, banking 15, TR. I didn't even *touch* Catacombs, or Necro 1, going through the lower levels, because they're that unneeded.

That said, I know people who are into crafting that haven't ever stepped foot in Abbot, on any toon, more less their crafter.

Why did I do crafting on that toon specifically? It was my "youngest" toon. Least amount of gear, and lets not forget that when crafting started, it was all Bound to Character. It made sense that the person who would *need* gear the most would be that toon.

Regardless, I could, can, and probably will get Silver Flame Favor with this toon someday. But yanno what? This thread isn't about me - this thread is about a Shard. A single shard costing 18 bucks and a conservative value of 15 in-game-hours to craft.

[dingal]

I have 2 toons with SF favor. Neither of which are my crafter. Yay?!

Bbbrbraaaapppfttt - that was the sound of me ripping one loose when thinking about getting SF favor on my Wizard just to craft a shard.

Never. Not in a million years. I'll stockpile all the shards I can before 10.1 and never craft again.

[Gratan]

Yea already got all that on my crafter..

Now do you have a crafter at sufficiently high enough lvl to craft holy burst shards, yet not have 400 sf favor?
If yea.. Well giving what an insane grind it is to get to that point, I'd say your a rarity.

If not, why are you playing devils advocate?
This may not actually effect anyone ever.. Given the incredible requirement just to be able to attempt it, it's something only the most hardcore of players will ever reach - and those types of players tend to have every pack, if not VIP.

I guess i am a rarity then. I have 400+ SF favor on only one of my 38 toons and it is not my crafter. But if they insist on the insane additions to the crafting I wont be crafting anyways after it goes live, and yes i can craft holyburst shards atm.

[barryman5000]

... This thread isn't about me - this thread is about a Shard. A single shard costing 18 bucks and a conservative value of 15 in-game-hours to craft.

THIS, OMG THIS.

Also, don't let shade troll you. He is always talking about a challenge and maybe crafting will give him one.

[voodoogroves]

THIS, OMG THIS.

Also, don't let shade troll you. He is always talking about a challenge and maybe crafting will give him one.

A while back Junts said something and prefaced it by "this isn't for those of us who basically have everything in the game already". Others tend to forget that; they've been playing for years longer than many and have a fair amount of pp, gear, etc. and are quick to discount the time involved.


I have zero toons with 400 SF favor. The thought of having to now grind one up just to craft holy burst shards in the future isn't appealing at all.

I suspect there are plenty of players who play more than me that feel similar ... and far far more that play less than I do and will never reach that mark or desire to.

[Mistycball]

incredible.....

[barryman5000]

A while back Junts said something and prefaced it by "this isn't for those of us who basically have everything in the game already". Others tend to forget that; they've been playing for years longer than many and have a fair amount of pp, gear, etc. and are quick to discount the time involved.


I have zero toons with 400 SF favor. The thought of having to now grind one up just to craft holy burst shards in the future isn't appealing at all.

I suspect there are plenty of players who play more than me that feel similar ... and far far more that play less than I do and will never reach that mark or desire to.

Well if anybody was gonna like the new crafting system . . .

Also I forgot, is this one of the threads that I am supposed to /signed or /not signed?

[Shade]

I guess i am a rarity then. I have 400+ SF favor on only one of my 38 toons and it is not my crafter. But if they insist on the insane additions to the crafting I wont be crafting anyways after it goes live, and yes i can craft holyburst shards atm.

Well sounds like you and dingal and likely others are in the same boat.

A fix could be to make SF pots BTA.

re: dearleader..
Yea im obviously not an average player. Im not a player turbine cares to cater for. Im not a player that will get have his opinion have any impact on this.

I am a player questioning yours and others reasoning. Your putting words in my mouth I never said.

Making any assumption of what players have or have not is just pointless. The point of the forum is the submit feedback, so we can just say if we would be effected at all, change shouldn't be made for those who don't exist is my point.

Why did I do crafting on that toon specifically? It was my "youngest" toon. Least amount of gear, and lets not forget that when crafting started, it was all Bound to Character. It made sense that the person who would *need* gear the most would be that toon.

Crafted has NEVER been specificly BTC. There is and has always been a way to get BTA gear: Disjunct an already BTA item.
I knew this, and knew crafting would eventually get higher requirements, thus I made my crafting character my oldest and best geared character that essentially has nearly nothing to gain from crafting.
Not calling you out for lacking foresight in that, just pointing out that BTA options were always there, if not as easy as they are now.

Regardless, I could, can, and probably will get Silver Flame Favor with this toon someday. But yanno what? This thread isn't about me - this thread is about a Shard. A single shard costing 18 bucks and a conservative value of 15 in-game-hours to craft.

It doesn't cost that until someone actaully specificly buys all those packs just for the sole purpose of crafting a holy burst shard.
Trying to infer that will EVER happen, is really jumping the gun. Thus why it IS abot you, and about me, and about everyone else who might potentially be put in that situation.

Personally I think the changes are stupid too, but infering that this one shard really needs to change, when there are far more redicules ones in the new setup is a waste of time. The ones that need tome pages, raid loot, or ultra rare named loot are the really dumb ones.

So far we have several players that may lack the SF favor on their crafter, but have at least a character with it.. So instead of whining about potential scenarios that may never happen, i'd suggest a solution of BTA potions.

[Emili]

THIS, OMG THIS.

Also, don't let shade troll you. He is always talking about a challenge and maybe crafting will give him one.

I've eight favour capped characters at the moment... drink yugo's like guinness and SF pots instead of cures on many ... BUT, my crafting is only in the 30's. WHY? well simple I like to actually log on and play the game rather than stand arround in some crafting hall clicking away...

I left runescape because even though I had a 144 level character and max'd out slayer, woodcutting, flteching and cooking and a decent mining... I saw no point in standing someplace anymore doing some repetitive mundane boring thing.

At least in a quest you get to react to what's going on some. Combat is exciting ... factory like workstations are not.

The real silly thing about DDO these days is the dev's do everything to create an atmosphere where players do not play well together ... and single play solo options are prefered. - Good example of the "new" crafting system.... 12 players run VoD elite when a +3 wis tome pops for the barb in chest, a cleric asks is it up for roll? The Barb says no - I'm taking it to craft. The barb has rights to do with as he wishes, the cleric may be ok with that right though ... but in the back of his mind the next time he groups with that barb he'll remember ... and when the encrusted pops for the cleric in ToD ... if he gives it away am sure he'll remember the barb's attitude prior.

[Postumus]

A while back Junts said something and prefaced it by "this isn't for those of us who basically have everything in the game already". Others tend to forget that; they've been playing for years longer than many and have a fair amount of pp, gear, etc. and are quick to discount the time involved.


I have zero toons with 400 SF favor. The thought of having to now grind one up just to craft holy burst shards in the future isn't appealing at all.

I suspect there are plenty of players who play more than me that feel similar ... and far far more that play less than I do and will never reach that mark or desire to.

Even though getting 400 might be an unsavory journey for a lot of players, at least once you are there you can simply purchase as many silver flame pots as you need to craft. For the rare drops or end rewards like fish, broccoli, vase, and whatever else, you'd have to farm the same quest over and over and only get one at a time.

But I'm probably in the minority since I like most of the Silver Flame quests (except the swim in necro 2), so my characters usually end up with favor in the 300s before I move on to something else.

[Scraap]

All righty, hi folks. This particular topic is related specifically to Holy Burst shards ONLY. I understand that there is a lot going on with crafting right now, but I want to address this one from a few different angles.

Holy Burst 100% crafting success cost Live, Update 10:
Divine Crafting Level 72
21 G. Good Essences
192 L. Good Essences
2 Lodestones
25 Siberys Dragonshard Fragments.

Holy Burst 100% crafting success cost Update 10.1:
All of the above
Purified Eb. Dragonshard Fragments
1 Silver Flame Healing Potion.

For those of you that don't know, a Silver Flame Healing Potion is bought from the Silver Flame Vendor after having achieved over 400 Silver Flame Favor. To illustrate this more fully, I am going to use the Wiki to break down the Favor, by pack, as well as the DDO Store to illustrate lowest-cost pricing in DDO points, without the usage of sales.

--Free to Play:
06 - Bringing the Light
15 - The Church and the Cult
18 - In the Demon's Den
--Pay to Play:
66 - Catacombs - 250 TP
66 - Necro 1 - 250 TP
81 - Necro 2 - 350 TP
90 - Necro 3 - 350 TP
111 - Necro 4 - 850 TP
Alternately, Necro 1-4 Bundle Pack - 1495 TP

Now we play with some simple math. There is a maximum of 453 Silver Flame Favor out there. Removal of *any* of the 5 P2P packs, and it's associated favor, means you cannot reach over 400 Silver Flame Favor required in order to buy Silver Flame Potions, and therefore cannot craft a Holy Burst Shard.

Now, under these simple assumptions, we can then to the math, and see that Turbine Point wise, you need at least 1745 Turbine Points to buy these 5 Adventure packs, at their lowest cost, not including sales.

What can I surmise from this?

Turbine expects us to:

1. Be Pay to Play, or Spend 18 USD.
2. Run 31 Quests, and 1 Raid, on Elite.
3. Be at least level 18 on our crafting toon.
4. Deconstruct 3~4 +1 Tomes.
5. Deconstruct roughly 7 Holy Burst items.

All after having *already* reached crafting level 72, and to what end? To craft. a. single. shard.

Please, discuss.

You forgot to tack on the price of a shared bank, unless you're planning on grinding the craft-level up for all the toons that need it, or doubling that 72 to 144, presuming they even allow holyburst unbounds. Sad part is, I was actively considering finally giving into that little bit of extortion since I've hit the point of having all current actual quest activities to partake in.

Now? Not even sure I'm buying packs anymore, if the money spent is going to keep going into this type of decision.

And the truly sickeningly ironic part about this was, I'd just finished defending the notion that the game wasn't at the point where the only real option was min/max-zerg-to-the-end-for-quest-reward-rinse-repeat.