Death to New/Casual Players

[AmatsukaIncarnate]

This has been posted in many replies on other threads but I just wanted to make it clear that this patch could be the end to casual players.

I am a casual player. I've been playing the game for two years and have capped...two characters

With the new requirements for crafting, not only will you have to buy the adventure packs from where the named loot comes from but ALSO you need to grind out and PULL the named item.

Why?

Cause no one who crafts will pass their items any longer. Why pass that extra dreamsplitter when you can keep it to craft a useful weapon with it on another character?

As a casual player, most of my raid loot comes from rolling on them. I haven't even gotten 20 completions on any raids on any of my characters and I've played for two years!

This is an outrage because I thought the crafting system allows casual players to eventually reach a high enough crafting level for them to craft weapons that can be useful without having to raid constantly to get them. (I'm looking at you greensteel items. Still have yet to make a Tier 3 GS item as well).

So thank you Turbine.
Thank you for making my characters have an even harder time keeping up with people who've played longer than I have and who play more than I do.

edit: any casual player love out there?

[Syllph]

I agree but honestly, how casually do you play? even if you only played twice a month (Once every 15 days) you should still have completed at least 20 runs of a raid.

15 days = 1 raid

20 raid completions = 300 days (15*20)

365 days / year.

[theboyftw]

not everyone wants to raid...that doesn't make us less of a player. casual or not we're still paying our subscription but we're not all keen on raiding.

[AmatsukaIncarnate]

I agree but honestly, how casually do you play? even if you only played twice a month (Once every 15 days) you should still have completed at least 20 runs of a raid.

15 days = 1 raid

20 raid completions = 300 days (15*20)

365 days / year.

Well, I usually wait for PUGs... and I tend to get sidetracked with my terrible altaholism.

[dingal]

I agree but honestly, how casually do you play? even if you only played twice a month (Once every 15 days) you should still have completed at least 20 runs of a raid.

15 days = 1 raid

20 raid completions = 300 days (15*20)

365 days / year.

That's not really relevant. He may simply not want to grind 20 completions or have something different he wants to spend his time on. Neither of those things should impact his ability to leverage the crafting system as long as he's running enough quests and getting enough essences to craft.

They already have forced reasons to buy packs for higher level recipes, there's no need for them to add in any sort of requirement to grind raid loot.

[Syllph]

It was just a question. He gave me an answer. I was curious.

[Dexxaan]

I don´t see a problem....... except for the fact crafting doesn´t belong in the game....period.

Whats next - Rename the game to:

"DDO Eberron Unlimited Arts & Crafts"


I cannot stress this enough:

We are here to be heroes people... heroes have geeks designing better Armor / Sewing better clothes and craftsmen / Smithys sweating day & night so WE can swing the ultimate <insert uber item here>.


If Crafting is to stay... at least it should toss in some Guild Reknown because to make things worse.... crafting makes for the OCDDO´rs to aim for that Level 100 Crafting Skills (X3) and Guild Decay is causing Interesting achievements & Benefits for all look kindof out of reach.


.

[AmatsukaIncarnate]

I don´t see a problem....... except for the fact crafting doesn´t belong in the game....period.

Whats next - Rename the game to:

"DDO Eberron Unlimited Arts & Crafts"


I cannot stress this enough:

We are here to be heroes people... heroes have geeks designing better Armor / Sewing better clothes and craftsmen / Smithys sweating day & night so WE can swing the ultimate <insert uber item here>.


If Crafting is to stay... at least it should toss in some Guild Reknown because to make things worse.... crafting makes for the OCDDO´rs to aim for that Level 100 Crafting Skills (X3) and Guild Decay is causing Interesting achievements & Benefits for all look kindof out of reach.


.

I think crafting deserves to be here. It was in PnP 3.5 and so I think it should be here as well...

[rodarius]

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=155

[Dawnsfire]

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=155

Yet they do not consider it so game breaking that they will halt the patch long enough to fix it. Therefore it can not be too awful far from what they envision. So I personally consider it fair game to contemplate and comment on.

Madfloyd makes me a bit hopeful but consider me a bit too jaded to assume all the bad will go away

[ImFour20]

not everyone wants to raid...that doesn't make us less of a player. casual or not we're still paying our subscription but we're not all keen on raiding.

no one asks you to play the game. just like no one asks you to raid. and most importantly. much like you not raiding, you dont have to craft either

not every game /has/ to be for the casual players. sadly turbine has opened this door since it allows more money. sure. but that doesn't mean they have to cater to you. i imagine enough hardcore players have been turned onto the game since it became F2P that turbine can continue to put out DDO content and still make money.

while I agree things like a Dreamspitter and Chattering Ring should not be included in the crafting recipes. I dont mind that they use /some/ raid loot to make it more rare/valuable. now where this line should be drawn on what should be used is another discussion

to all the casual players. just ignore crafting and the game will function as it was before. you will still be able to roll on raid loot(oh right, you dont raid. . .so then it doesn't matter at all)

[Ryiah]

As a casual player, most of my raid loot comes from rolling on them. I haven't even gotten 20 completions on any raids on any of my characters and I've played for two years!

I've only once gotten 20 completions in the two years I've played as well. That being said, I'm also sensible enough not to waste my time with a crafting system that is barely a few months old. I know enough about Turbine now that I avoid systems until they've been around for some time.

[herzkos]

no one asks you to play the game. just like no one asks you to raid. and most importantly. much like you not raiding, you dont have to craft either

not every game /has/ to be for the casual players. sadly turbine has opened this door since it allows more money. sure. but that doesn't mean they have to cater to you. i imagine enough hardcore players have been turned onto the game since it became F2P that turbine can continue to put out DDO content and still make money.

while I agree things like a Dreamspitter and Chattering Ring should not be included in the crafting recipes. I dont mind that they use /some/ raid loot to make it more rare/valuable. now where this line should be drawn on what should be used is another discussion

to all the casual players. just ignore crafting and the game will function as it was before. you will still be able to roll on raid loot(oh right, you dont raid. . .so then it doesn't matter at all)

Dear 420,

every game HAS TO BE for CASUAL PLAYERS if it wants to stay in operation. at least every mmo does. you
can run your own game out of your basement and make it as hardcore as you want but you probably won't make
a dime off of it.
i've been a "casual player" for over 4 years now. by casual I mean actual time spent in the game on a daily
or weekly basis. i've completed hundreds if not thousands of raids. so please, don't try to tar all casual
players with the same brush.


On Topic,
I don't think that this change marks the death of the casual player in ddo. it will significantly alter the difference
between the haves and have-nots though.
I do not believe that Turbine/Warner bro's have a coherent plan for the future of ddo based upon their recent
decisions and actions. it's almost like there isn't any comms between the development team. either that
or they're just playing games with their playerbase
seems to me that crafting is a seat of the pants project. and it's looking more and more like a seat of
the pants where ya don't make it to the potty in time project.

New players will be in the same boat they always were:
so far behind that the only viable method of catching up is to join a guild and mooch off them until you can
carry your own weight.

[blkcat1028]

no one asks you to play the game. just like no one asks you to raid. and most importantly. much like you not raiding, you dont have to craft either

not every game /has/ to be for the casual players. sadly turbine has opened this door since it allows more money. sure. but that doesn't mean they have to cater to you. i imagine enough hardcore players have been turned onto the game since it became F2P that turbine can continue to put out DDO content and still make money.

while I agree things like a Dreamspitter and Chattering Ring should not be included in the crafting recipes. I dont mind that they use /some/ raid loot to make it more rare/valuable. now where this line should be drawn on what should be used is another discussion

to all the casual players. just ignore crafting and the game will function as it was before. you will still be able to roll on raid loot(oh right, you dont raid. . .so then it doesn't matter at all)

Such an incredibly helpful post. Face dude, hard-core players only make up about 5 or 10 percent of our community. It's not realistic for turbine to cater to us. The good of the many and all that.

Are you saying that because a player is casual they aren't entitle to enjoy all aspects of the game? Hardly seems fair.

If you go back and read the posts made when crafting was first introduced you'll find comments stating that crafting was not intended to replace high level raid loot, but to close the gap between mid-level gear and high level gear. Using raid loot to craft weapons so you won't have to grind for raid loot makes zero sense.

Cheers
R

[Alizar]

I think crafting deserves to be here. It was in PnP 3.5 and so I think it should be here as well...

I think Dexxaan has the right thinking here. Just because its in PnP doesn't mean it should be here in DDO. DDO is only a tiny sliver of what DnD is and is designed to play well as such. There is no social structure here in DDO like other MMO's that have crafting. Crafting here is an afterthought that will always be poorly implemented, just like PvP.

In DDO we are all heroes. We don't have professions. We kill monsters for reward...thats it.

Turbine brought this crafting in to get more money out of you FtP'ers. If I was a FtP'er I would stop using the crafting system and start petitions to have it removed.

[Ryiah]

Such an incredibly helpful post. Face dude, hard-core players only make up about 5 or 10 percent of our community. It's not realistic for turbine to cater to us. The good of the many and all that.

Turbine really tries to cater to both. Thus why the earlier content packs have had epic versions. In some cases the epics are fairly easy. But look at this thread's idea of casual. It considers raiding to 20 completions, even the Gianthold Reaver raid, to be something for hard-core players. Yet Reaver is clearly easier than running the House D and House P epics.

This definition is very narrow-minded and illogical as it considers "casual" players those who don't raid enough to even get 20 completions after two years. If we consider those people to be "casual", then it really just covers those who are lower level and/or don't own much of the content. Far less than the 90 to 95 percent of the community your post is indicating is casual.

If the players under this definition don't have much of the content, then clearly they aren't the ones funding this game. Thus Turbine catering to them would be counter-intuitive.

[Shade]

This is an outrage because I thought the crafting system allows casual players to eventually reach a high enough crafting level for them to craft weapons that can be useful without having to raid constantly to get them. (I'm looking at you greensteel items. Still have yet to make a Tier 3 GS item as well).

Well your intiial thought was blantantly wrong.

It is an INSANEly more difficult, longer and harder grind to get crafting levels up to level of creating near-GS equivalent stuff. (EG: Holy burst, Greater banes)

Talking in the hundreds of hours, and/or tends of millions of platinums to reach those levels.

So no, crafting things on the level of T3 GS was never within the reach of casual players anyways. T3 Shroud gear was and is far easier to get for casual players.

Now some more basic stuff may be within reach - holy/regular bane sure - but thats no where near GS level.. Thats roughly a ~5-10 hour grind, and 1-2 million platinum. The higher stuff is exponentiially far more difficult.

[Shade]

every game HAS TO BE for CASUAL PLAYERS if it wants to stay in operation. at least every mmo does.

Disagree.

DDO was a 100% hard-core ONLY game for the first ~3 years of it's life.

Solo'ing was impossible.
Tough mobs would 1 shot players.
Raids took months to beat. (Titan...)
Elite was to be feared.

It was hardcore, It was fun, and it never died.

Today it isn't even close to the same game, but that doesn't mean that such a game isn't viable. Turbine prooved it was.. Well the old turbine, nearly none of the original programmers that created that game are still around.

[ImFour20]

Such an incredibly helpful post. Face dude, hard-core players only make up about 5 or 10 percent of our community. It's not realistic for turbine to cater to us. The good of the many and all that.

Are you saying that because a player is casual they aren't entitle to enjoy all aspects of the game? Hardly seems fair.

If you go back and read the posts made when crafting was first introduced you'll find comments stating that crafting was not intended to replace high level raid loot, but to close the gap between mid-level gear and high level gear. Using raid loot to craft weapons so you won't have to grind for raid loot makes zero sense.

Cheers
R

but you're talking about using raid loot to craft 'raid powerful loot'. no one is making the casual players make or use these raid power weapons. if they are casual then they wont need or care for these greater banes. they'll be happy with min2s cause it will be good enough

face it guys, ALL mmos are made for hardcore gamers. that's just how it is. if not you'll be completing elite ADQ and get your choice of the loot every time.

the more casual a game becomes the easier it is for plat farmers to make a killing(and eventually ruin a game and it's economy), and everyone knows that's mmo's #1 enemy

[Crystalizer]

do you really need to craft to play this game ?
i don't think so
only elitist players need that