Feedback - Crafting - Update 10, Patch 1

[Seikojin]

It has already been said that the rare item ingredients was a mistake. So no need for me to even think about that problem.

What I do like howver is taking items from our bags in crafting, and the cut down of the timer for transmuting.

[Vordax]

do not roll this out. just cancel the patch. delay the patch. this patch never hitting is infinitely preferable to it hitting with the changes

Just an FYI, but if you read more of this thread you would have found out that they already cancelled the patch 2 days ago.

Vordax

[tihocan]

Everyone,

The train has been stopped. The patch will not ship in its current state.

Thanks

[Aeolwind]

+2 Tomes are only worth 9 shards. 7 Diamonds are worth 9 shards. +2 tome on the ddo store is 595 points, 10 AD's are 200.

I'm missing some conversion ratio here.

[zebidos]

Interesting thread.

If I may offer up a crafting idea from a casual player; one option that would provide a time sink and give hard core gamers and casual gamers a chance at crafting would be a new easy raid like the shroud, but with set difficutlies so level 8 on normal, level 14 on hard, level 18 on elite and a epic version.

The level 8 raid could drop ingrediants for say bust effects
The level 14 raid could drop banes
The level 18 greater banes and the much desired holy burst.
And the epic version could have the epic crafting ingrediants, but make it a little less challenging then epic as I assume you don't want the new crafting system to be more powerfull then current epic gear, but close.

Each raid could also have a chance to drop a pre crafted shard and silver weopons to attract people not into crafting.

Each difficulty setting would drop higher tier ingrediants; and make it FREE to play.

This would encourage team work at lower levels; provide a time sink and hopefully get mid level toons into raiding and ge them interested in higher level P2P raids.

[CeltEireson]

It has already been said that the rare item ingredients was a mistake. So no need for me to even think about that problem.

What I do like howver is taking items from our bags in crafting, and the cut down of the timer for transmuting.

Actually they said that bound items was a mistake, they did not categorically state that rare unbound items would not be used - so still the potential for things like the bloodstone etc to be a requirement

[MrkGrismer]

I think I just had a brilliant idea.... if they use soul gems as a requirement for the bane recipes, weak for lesser, regular for regular, strong for greater... and someone pointed out there are no soul gems for dragons... what about those named gems that drop for flagging Stealer of Souls, like Thadargix's Gem and Sventusk's Gem? I mean isn't the flagging quasi-quest called Essence of a Dragon? Although they'd have to determine which was acceptable for lesser, regular and greater. Since there are six gems, personally, I'd set it up so two gems would qualify for each recipe of lesser, regualr, and greater dragon bane.

What do you think?

I like it, I believe they drop in Desert, Orchard and Reaver's so there is your lesser, regular and greater. There is little other use for those (other than plat).

[MrkGrismer]

soul gems as ingredients. yeah people can make em on any class with greensteel. now please demonstrate how they can make greensteel without raiding.

Well, you can but it is a major pain. You can buy all the ingredients from the AH (for craploads of plat) and you can craft the items in airship altars (plus the one in Amrath) if you can find a guild that has the altars on their airships. It would certainly not be the preferred way but if you have plat coming out of your wazoo it would be possible.

[gloopygloop]

Well, you can but it is a major pain. You can buy all the ingredients from the AH (for craploads of plat) and you can craft the items in airship altars (plus the one in Amrath) if you can find a guild that has the altars on their airships. It would certainly not be the preferred way but if you have plat coming out of your wazoo it would be possible.

You can't get shards/great shards/supreme shards outside of Shroud/ToD as far as I know.

[stainer]

You can't get shards/great shards/supreme shards outside of Shroud/ToD as far as I know.

Devil Assault Elite/Epic and ToD Flagging quests.

[Gremmlynn]

Interesting thread.

If I may offer up a crafting idea from a casual player; one option that would provide a time sink and give hard core gamers and casual gamers a chance at crafting would be a new easy raid like the shroud, but with set difficutlies so level 8 on normal, level 14 on hard, level 18 on elite and a epic version.

The level 8 raid could drop ingrediants for say bust effects
The level 14 raid could drop banes
The level 18 greater banes and the much desired holy burst.
And the epic version could have the epic crafting ingrediants, but make it a little less challenging then epic as I assume you don't want the new crafting system to be more powerfull then current epic gear, but close.

Each raid could also have a chance to drop a pre crafted shard and silver weopons to attract people not into crafting.

Each difficulty setting would drop higher tier ingrediants; and make it FREE to play.

This would encourage team work at lower levels; provide a time sink and hopefully get mid level toons into raiding and ge them interested in higher level P2P raids.

Better yet to have those special ingredients drop from any quest or raid. Raids already drop better gear than what is craftable in the vast majority of cases, so there is already an incentive to join raids. Why replicate the same, do the same bit of content over and over till you can no longer stand it if and when a group is available, crafting system we already have with greensteel?

[gloopygloop]

Devil Assault Elite/Epic and ToD Flagging quests.

Good to know. I've gotten smalls/mediums/larges there, but never saw a shard.

[rvdvelden]

The quarterstaff is simple ki weapon, so every class can use it without penalty effectively. If you don't like the quarterstaff, you can make a GS Vacuum item.

Tell that to my sword-and-board characters. And stop with referring to GS items to get crafting ingredients, the whole purpose of Cannith Crafting is to circumvent grinding raids!

If you really need the soul gems, supply a caster with the dragonshards and he/she will usually get them for you for free or a fee of one Soul Gem for every 2 dragonshards needed. Yes, this surprisingly works, even if you have no friends or guild... I know this because this is how I obtained Soul Gems for the Adamantine ritual.

So i STILL need to use outside help for something I want to do on my own. Let me just be the happy shard grinder without having to do Epic, Raids or help from strangers.

As I stated, I was talking more about Greater Bane shards than the other shards. And yes, I do think Greater Bane shards should be slightly harder to make than other banes. Soul Gems seem like a fairly simple way of doing this...especially when the alternative was originally going to be raid loot.

How is running to level 75-100 in three different areas NOT hard? Please take into account that not everybody is a hard core gamer.....

[rvdvelden]

There is a big difference in the grinds .. and if you dont know that then you dont raid.

This is EXACTLY why I don't raid and why both raiding and Epic grinds are not for me, just like most casual gamers. Should we not be able to use Cannith Crafting then, just because we lack the time or tanacity to be able to do such a thing? Is our money different then yours? Leave Cannith Crafting as is: no Raid Ingredients, no Soul Gems, just collectibles and shards.....

[Aelonwy]

I have to say, with regards to soulgems, that I did not think about people without a caster at all. I'm premium but I'm an altaholic so I have an alt of every class but barb and monk.

Soulgems seem a good idea when currently they have little to no purpose, are fairly easy to acquire (on a caster), are unbound, and have a synergy with the idea of Bane recipes.

However, I can see that from the point of view of someone with limited character slots and no desire to play casters that soulgems would be an onnerous requirement. Also in a cost to play perspective, while some may not think twice about purchasing an adventure pack for access to a paricular mystical collectible; they would unsurprisingly look with dissatisfaction at having to purchase a character slot to spend time playing and leveling a class they do not enjoy. I know if the ingredient came from something only a barbarian could acquire that I'd be unhappy so I can understand this point of view.

The only ingredient that everyone seems in agreement on is rare collectibles, mystical or not, so if the devs choose to create a chokepoint on recipes currently the only reasonably agreed upon method of doing so is to use rare or mystical collectibles in amounts that make mass production difficult or impossible. The timer idea is also an excellent one for preventing mass production but I have no concept of coding whatsoever so I cannot form an opinion on the feasability of that idea.

[Barashkukor]

This is EXACTLY why I don't raid and why both raiding and Epic grinds are not for me, just like most casual gamers. Should we not be able to use Cannith Crafting then, just because we lack the time or tanacity to be able to do such a thing? Is our money different then yours? Leave Cannith Crafting as is: no Raid Ingredients, no Soul Gems, just collectibles and shards.....

Hear ye hear ye, this man who goes by rvdvelden hereby received +1.

I plan to get at least somewhat into raiding and epics in the future, but I fully agree that Cannith Crafting should be an option for those who prefer not to raid and grind epics and should stay completely independent of any system/loots/whatevs already in place for them. Even max-level Cannith.


As long as the Soul Gems are from mobs that are outside of raids/epics I don't see a problem with those however, as it encourages player economy and interaction. Might as well use an already implemented mechanic, but there should be a way for non-umd non-arcanes to get them. Maybe add various levels of TrapTheSoul-shards (without soulgem requirements of course..) at appropriate levels.

[SHOCK_and_AWE]

I have to say, with regards to soulgems, that I did not think about people without a caster at all. I'm premium but I'm an altaholic so I have an alt of every class but barb and monk.

Soulgems seem a good idea when currently they have little to no purpose, are fairly easy to acquire (on a caster), are unbound, and have a synergy with the idea of Bane recipes.

However, I can see that from the point of view of someone with limited character slots and no desire to play casters that soulgems would be an onnerous requirement. Also in a cost to play perspective, while some may not think twice about purchasing an adventure pack for access to a paricular mystical collectible; they would unsurprisingly look with dissatisfaction at having to purchase a character slot to spend time playing and leveling a class they do not enjoy. I know if the ingredient came from something only a barbarian could acquire that I'd be unhappy so I can understand this point of view...

Your main concern seems to be forcing players to play arcane classes to get soul gems. That is not the case. Currently, soul gems can also be gained directly by other classes by using weapons with Trap the Soul as an enhancement. Also, soul gems are unbound and can be freely traded.

I would say that soul gems could be acquired more cheaply and reliably by a melee without a Trap the Soul weapon than any collectable beyond Prayer Beads and Amulets of the Lost Empire (if they become a part of the crafting system). Supply would shoot up to meet demand.

Besides, the issue the devs are addressing is making it too easy to make Bane shards and the like once crafting levels reach that point for any given player. Soul gems for Bane shards would fit perfectly from a theme perspective and would provide that extra ingredient that would stop the mass production of bane shards - at least, without significant expense due to the expense of combined Khyber Dragonshards.

For someone wanting to make one or two of each Greater Bane shard, they can do so easily by using the auction house to buy the appropriate soul gem, just like they could buy a collectable if they wanted to.

[Gremmlynn]

Your main concern seems to be forcing players to play arcane classes to get soul gems. That is not the case. Currently, soul gems can also be gained directly by other classes by using weapons with Trap the Soul as an enhancement. Also, soul gems are unbound and can be freely traded.

I would say that soul gems could be acquired more cheaply and reliably by a melee without a Trap the Soul weapon than any collectable beyond Prayer Beads and Amulets of the Lost Empire (if they become a part of the crafting system). Supply would shoot up to meet demand.

Besides, the issue the devs are addressing is making it too easy to make Bane shards and the like once crafting levels reach that point for any given player. Soul gems for Bane shards would fit perfectly from a theme perspective and would provide that extra ingredient that would stop the mass production of bane shards - at least, without significant expense due to the expense of combined Khyber Dragonshards.

For someone wanting to make one or two of each Greater Bane shard, they can do so easily by using the auction house to buy the appropriate soul gem, just like they could buy a collectable if they wanted to.

No, it would create a bottle neck for those without the ability to easily get soul gems and mean nothing to those who do.

[Aelonwy]

Your main concern seems to be forcing players to play arcane classes to get soul gems. That is not the case. Currently, soul gems can also be gained directly by other classes by using weapons with Trap the Soul as an enhancement. Also, soul gems are unbound and can be freely traded.

I would say that soul gems could be acquired more cheaply and reliably by a melee without a Trap the Soul weapon than any collectable beyond Prayer Beads and Amulets of the Lost Empire (if they become a part of the crafting system). Supply would shoot up to meet demand.

Besides, the issue the devs are addressing is making it too easy to make Bane shards and the like once crafting levels reach that point for any given player. Soul gems for Bane shards would fit perfectly from a theme perspective and would provide that extra ingredient that would stop the mass production of bane shards - at least, without significant expense due to the expense of combined Khyber Dragonshards.

For someone wanting to make one or two of each Greater Bane shard, they can do so easily by using the auction house to buy the appropriate soul gem, just like they could buy a collectable if they wanted to.

Just as not everyone wants to make a caster, not everyone has or is willing to make a trap the soul weapon, nor has the plat to purchase soulgems from others players. But everything else currently required (except mystical ingredients) can be acquired on any class, at any level, in just about any content. Perhaps, I was focused on the class perspective but as I said many, many pages back that crafting was supposedly to allow us to craft things we could use as we leveled, to gear us so we could apply to raids and maybe the easiest epics. At this moment Cannith Crafting is open to anyone willing to put in the effort without REQUIRING any particular class, or raid, or epic capability. That may change.

I am on the fence now as to the use of soulgems. Yes the synergy is there, thematically soulgems for Bane recipes makes sense. However, unlike any other current ingredient (except mystical) soulgems would require either access to a particlar class OR particular content OR a possibly large investment of plat. Yes soulgems can be "freely traded" but should they become requirements in this crafting likely they would only be free among friends and guilds. The idea still makes sense; the willingness to overcome anyone of the methods by which one might acquire the necessary soulgem is the crux of the situation. It can be said, and should that if the devs make rare collectibles the chokepoint of the sytem the likelihood of farming or getting what you need randomly is more difficult and ppl will often still need to purchase some off the AH. So those extremely rare collectibles might actually become MUCH MORE expensive than the easier to acquire soulgems. I never said I was flatout against soulgems only that I can see how some people might find it onerous.

I would argue that "the issue the devs are addressing is making it too easy to make Bane shards" is really only one small portion of the problem. A +1 Bane or even Greater Bane weapon is no bigdeal, minimum level 4 or 6 respectively (non RR) and should not be such a hurdle to achieve or acquire. It is the combination of Bane/Greater Bane, with Holy/Holyburst on the appropriate metal weapon, that ppl have been shouting makes the precious MinII from Shroud obsolete. I would disagree with that idea but without taking a poll it would be hard to say how the majority feel about this subject. MinII being versatile against many, Holy/silver/GB vs one race. I would also argue that if the highest level content had a greater variety of mob/boss races this wouldn't be such an issue but that is another discussion altogether.

[ericrd]

up 10.1 was not a mistake. devs only called it one and cancelled after massive neg feedback.10.1 still shows what thier intent was and it would be wise to expect a crafting nerf/tp sink of some sort when the new up 10.1 drops,they want to generate more tp sales with crafting system thats fairly obvios.there could be a internal struggle going on between devs and the non playing bean counters at turbine,devs understand gamers,mba,s dont all they understand is 15% growth per year or its a dying business