Feedback - Crafting - Update 10, Patch 1

[phayth]

Quote:
Originally Posted by phayth
Maybe devote the same time they are putting into the next patch to stop server lag? Just fire the guy who originally thought of that crafting update and buy new servers with his salary?

Just so you know 90% of the lag your experiencing is client side try defragging your pc, or clear some stuff of the hard drive, lowering the graphic settings or upgrading the only time I ever get lag is in the crafting hall during peak hours beyond that is an occasional half second lag spike.__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eladrin
I often word things in ways that cause the most speculation and panic, because I'm capricious and mean.

Quote:
Originally Posted by QCDora
Our race isn't getting any smarter, were just finding new ways to be ********

No it's definately not,
A Everyone feels the lag in raids at the same exact times
B I have a new comp, only thing on it is this game, AND, it defrags itself once a week
C Experience the same exact lag on 2 other comps I also use

[ericrd]

while glad they halted update again have to ask who is crafting for the general gaming community or the top 10% most people in game dont have thier crafting lvls that high alot of people in game will never see silver flame pots or many of the various other requirments that werent raid loot and other mentioned high value items point is any changes made to stop the top 10 percent from owning the crafting system wont work without crippling the crafting system for the rest of us,plus in all liklyhood the 10% will still find a way to grind/raid to the top again and post how easy it was

[BOgre]

As for "outdated items" being used to bring new life to them, the more obvious choice would be to make them have a crafting slot. Let's use the Sword of the Giant Slave-Master as an example. It is a +2 Great Sword with Elf Bane and a ML 2. How about adding a +2 crafting slot that allows you to add +1 or +2 shard without raising the ML? This would bring new life to the item. It won't make it super great, but it would allow some flexiblity and new life to old "outdated" items.

Wow, i really really like this idea. The code is already there in the form of guild augment slots too. +1

while glad they halted update again have to ask who is crafting for the general gaming community or the top 10% most people in game dont have thier crafting lvls that high alot of people in game will never see silver flame pots or many of the various other requirments that werent raid loot and other mentioned high value items point is any changes made to stop the top 10 percent from owning the crafting system wont work without crippling the crafting system for the rest of us,plus in all liklyhood the 10% will still find a way to grind/raid to the top again and post how easy it was

ok, while tough to read, I agree with you. Most of us know it's NOT easy, or quick. It takes time and resources and I'm completely fine with the fact that in its current form it'll still be months before I can make useful at-level stuff. And by useful, I do still mean temporarily useful. My goals are still epic upgraded gear, and GS. Crafted stuff, for me, would just be a nice slot filler, to plug the gaps in my current gear's weaknesses. Like blindness immunity, +2 to hit, and such. If +5 HB silver GLOB's are a problem, just remove them from Cannith crafting altogether.

[Arnhelm]

Please rethink using bound items of any kind, raid or otherwise, in Cannith crafting recipes.

Edit - I can spell, sometimes I just can't type.

[Sinnok]

For what little my opinion is worth, this is THE WORST change that I've seen implemented. Who in their right mind will use Tomes/Astral Diamonds/Raid Gear for crafting?? A change such as this will cost Turbine money from the many people that will cancel their accounts due to this severe lapse in judgment.

[Aelonwy]

I think I just had a brilliant idea.... if they use soul gems as a requirement for the bane recipes, weak for lesser, regular for regular, strong for greater... and someone pointed out there are no soul gems for dragons... what about those named gems that drop for flagging Stealer of Souls, like Thadargix's Gem and Sventusk's Gem? I mean isn't the flagging quasi-quest called Essence of a Dragon? Although they'd have to determine which was acceptable for lesser, regular and greater. Since there are six gems, personally, I'd set it up so two gems would qualify for each recipe of lesser, regualr, and greater dragon bane.

What do you think?

[redspecter23]

I think I just had a brilliant idea.... if they use soul gems as a requirement for the bane recipes, weak for lesser, regular for regular, strong for greater... and someone pointed out there are no soul gems for dragons... what about those named gems that drop for flagging Stealer of Souls, like Thadargix's Gem and Sventusk's Gem? I mean isn't the flagging quasi-quest called Essence of a Dragon? Although they'd have to determine which was acceptable for lesser, regular and greater. Since there are six gems, personally, I'd set it up so two gems would qualify for each recipe of lesser, regualr, and greater dragon bane.

What do you think?

I'd take it a step further and make one more recipe. Take the BtC dragon gems and put them in a crafting device to change them into BtA or even unbound Soul Gems. That way you can skip around the whole "BtC crafting is messy and sloppy" while allowing three different tiers to get your lesser, regular and greater banes. Maybe one gem for lesser, 3 for regular and 5 for greater bane (I'd say all 6, but it won't fit in the machine)

[Symar-FangofLloth]

I was thinking, and maybe this is still a bad idea, but if they really still want to have named items somehow involved, let ANY named item, raidloot or otherwise, crunch into some generic ingredient (like those purified dragonshards) that you need for the high-tier items.

So if you really wanted to you could still crunch your Chattering Ring, but you could also grind up some small Shroud ingredients, your Rusted Shamshir, and that Nicked Greatsword you no longer have any need for.

[perylousdemon]

Please rethink using bound items of any kind, raid or otherwise, in Cannith crafting recipes.

Edit - I can spell, sometimes I just can't type.

For what little my opinion is worth, this is THE WORST change that I've seen implemented. Who in their right mind will use Tomes/Astral Diamonds/Raid Gear for crafting?? A change such as this will cost Turbine money from the many people that will cancel their accounts due to this severe lapse in judgment.

Guys, the update's been halted since yesterday because everyone has been giving it negative feedback. I don't have a link or copy/paste to give you, but I'm sure you can find MadFloyd's post apologizing for Turbine's lack of intelligence on this topic.

[Aelonwy]

I'd take it a step further and make one more recipe. Take the BtC dragon gems and put them in a crafting device to change them into BtA or even unbound Soul Gems. That way you can skip around the whole "BtC crafting is messy and sloppy" while allowing three different tiers to get your lesser, regular and greater banes. Maybe one gem for lesser, 3 for regular and 5 for greater bane (I'd say all 6, but it won't fit in the machine)

That makes sense. For a moment I forgot about them being BTC, they are also exclusive which is annoying because often when running desert rares they're the only named item i get and frequently one in every other chest.
This idea has the additional benefit of encouraging the packs these gems drop in.... not that these particular packs really need any help.

[macubrae]

I think I just had a brilliant idea.... if they use soul gems as a requirement for the bane recipes, weak for lesser, regular for regular, strong for greater... and someone pointed out there are no soul gems for dragons... what about those named gems that drop for flagging Stealer of Souls, like Thadargix's Gem and Sventusk's Gem? I mean isn't the flagging quasi-quest called Essence of a Dragon? Although they'd have to determine which was acceptable for lesser, regular and greater. Since there are six gems, personally, I'd set it up so two gems would qualify for each recipe of lesser, regualr, and greater dragon bane.

What do you think?

This idea is so obvious and logical that they can't possibly use it. How are they expected to make any extra money from this?

At least from the soulstones they could sell the gemstones required and possibly even something to cast the spell once, five times, or ten times. But for them to implement something that doesn't generate income but satisfies the masses isn't fathomable.

I guess what they have to remember is that greater anything bane is a 6th level weapon. If they want to make something difficult to craft, make it be the shards of potential. +5 isn't great, neither is holy burst, or even EOB, it's when you put it all together is when it gets awesome. The key is the potential.

[anto_capone]

Everyone,

The train has been stopped. The patch will not ship in its current state.

I will update (probably via a separate thread) when I have more news, but I can say this:

We will NOT require raid loot as ingredients.

We will NOT require bound named items as ingredients.

Many ingredients, and the *amount* of some of these ingredients were out of line.

These changed recipes should have been reviewed by various designers, but weren't (a hole in our process that we have identified and corrected to avoid for the future).

Mournlands did not have an opportunity to see or comment on these changes.

Again, I'll post more info when I have it.

Our sincere apologies for causing panic, and many thanks to all players who offered their well-thought out and constructive feedback on this issue and tried the changes on Lamannia.

"MudFloyd"

Thanks for hearing us all out.

And a quick bump so that the quote is on the last page.

[steelblueskies]

soul gems as ingredients. yeah people can make em on any class with greensteel. now please demonstrate how they can make greensteel without raiding.

[TheDearLeader]

soul gems as ingredients. yeah people can make em on any class with greensteel. now please demonstrate how they can make greensteel without raiding.

I've always supported Soul Gems having more use in game - sure, not everyone has a caster, but it would give the spell more reason for existing, and also ensure player-to-player interaction, as an MMO should be played.

I wouldn't mind Wizards and Sorcs being sought out for Trapped Souls, Rogues being sought out for Trap Parts (trap parts could be used in Cannith Crafting, think on it!), etc. I wouldn't mind if the Bard Skill song gave you an extra 10% on crafting - bards would be on hire to help assist people.

This actually assist cooperative gameplay, rather than the 10.1 mistaken implementations that would work to destroy it.

Also, to play Devil's Advocate - anyone can use an Epic Souleater to get Soul Gems. If they really really really didn't want to make friends to the point that someone could provide them the Soul Gems, and also did not want to raid, that is their other option.

That... or just roll a dang caster. They're fun!

[Valakai]

This New Thing - It Is Bad. Or to put it in another way it is not good. This new thing would not know a good thing if it slapped it into the face and said New Thing - I am The Good Thing and we have nothing in common. Now go away!

[Argantis]

Earlier I blasted the changes, mainly because of the need to spend TP on items like Astral Diamonds, because we all know how often they drop in elite / epic Devil Assault, like almost never :P I also do not like the item farming from raids and or quests. For one, the inventory management in this game is already a nightmare, just how are we going to store all of these random raid items until we get our crafting levels, or the other materials gathered to actually craft a pattern?

No they were on the right track originally, with special ingredients and collectibles. It is simple, USE WHAT IS ALREADY THERE! There are plenty of collectible and ingredient combinations already in place!

For example, make a Greater Undead Bane shard require 50 Necromantic Gems to craft. Make all of the Greater Outsider Bane shards require 50 Planar Talismans. Make Greater Elemental Bane shards require a Strong Earth, Air, Fire, and Water Soul Gem. Use other soul gems for other bane type weapons including ooze, reptilian, goblinoid, etc. Make Vampirism shards require a Greater Undead Bane shard, some version of a False Life shard, and some version of a Bodyfeeder shard.

Come on Turbine! Use your brains here, be creative! There is already enough items in the game in collectibles and ingredients to handle this without resorting to Blizzard / Diabloesque loot drop farming!

Furthermore, if your worried about making other items obsolete, namely greensteel and epic items then either scale back the crafting, or make those items a bit more powerful. Greensteel is already fairly powerful, with the increased die step, I cannot imagine it being replaced by normally crafted items. If there is a genuine concern for that then just upgrade the GS items to +6 base item and bump the epic items to +7 that should easily keep them in the proper gear / progression rankings.

In fact, while I am at it, why don't you add in epic crafting. Yes, the ability to crunch down unused shards and seals and use them to craft special epic augment crystals. You could put out a whole line of +20 skills (except UMD which maybe you want to throw a bone out there and let us make a +5 UMD epic augment crystal), along with +7 stat augment crystals, and yes, more immunity and effect crystals such as a permanent deathward (might be too powerful) or how about a Freedom of Movement epic augment crystal, Underwater Action, Feather Fall, Striding. Heck include a slightly more powerful epic augment crystal for every Dragon Touched armor effect, Such as 15% healing amp, and a Greater Disintegration guard that might require a higher DC to save, or elemental guards that do 1d10 or 1d12 dmg. You get the idea, let us customize our epic gear! Because let me tell you, when you get into epic gearing, especially on a skill heavy class like a rogue, there only choices of this sucks and this sucks more. You are typically torn between 1-2 items in a slot, that force you into other pieces. For example if you use the birthday suit (Duelist Leathers) then you are forced into using the Kundrak Delving Goggles. Once choise forcing you into another item to be locked into your gearing slot. Let us truly customize our characters and builds, make the gearing in DDO on all levels, from low end crafting, to epics, just as flexible as the character builds themselves. Stop forcing every two handed build to go for one uber weapon in the game. Similar to the Attack on Stormreach, and other packs, where you can custom craft a variety of weapons and items, this is what is needed on all levels of the game, including epics.

[Thvari]

Everyone,

The train has been stopped. The patch will not ship in its current state.

I will update (probably via a separate thread) when I have more news, but I can say this:

We will NOT require raid loot as ingredients.

We will NOT require bound named items as ingredients.

Many ingredients, and the *amount* of some of these ingredients were out of line.

These changed recipes should have been reviewed by various designers, but weren't (a hole in our process that we have identified and corrected to avoid for the future).

Mournlands did not have an opportunity to see or comment on these changes.

Again, I'll post more info when I have it.

Our sincere apologies for causing panic, and many thanks to all players who offered their well-thought out and constructive feedback on this issue and tried the changes on Lamannia.

"MudFloyd"

MadFloyd. First thank you and all the other Dev's that stepped up and realized that this was a bad idea.

Now as to how to change crafting...many on this thread have posted using gems, soul gems and the third tier of collectables for those higher level shards. The Greater banes/Holy burst and so on. This is an excellent suggestion and I support it fully. It makes use of items already in game without having to either add new items or use rare and bound items. This will stimulate the in-game economy.

My suggestion for dealing with crafting is simply cap the ML at 20. Use a system similar to 3.X D&D for determining the plus value of a given enchantment allowing for differences in DDO from the Pen and Paper version. Determine a reasonable discount for BtA and BtC as those reduce the utility of the item. Of course for that BtC would have the greatest discount as it is the most limiting. These are simple and effective changes that don't detract form crafting already present but allow for more player interaction with the content.

Also I'm glad that the review hole has been repaired but there should be work done on this to patch missing your alpha testers on the Mournlands server.

Just my 2 cp from an old D&D player and Original buyer of DDO.

[lugoman]

If they ever plan on using soul gems for anything useful, they had better change it so they spawn in your inventory instead of on the ground loot-able by anyone.

[Full_Bleed]

Why do people think making soul gems essential is a good idea? So only casters can craft stuff and people who aren't casters will have to fork up cash to them? As if casters aren't already over-powered solo cash machines in the game as is. You want to anchor desirable crafting ingredients to them, too? Further, these same people are also almost universally requiring that the gems no longer fall on the floor because then that would allow some other people to get some... can't have that! No way. Must have wiz/socs totally control that market!

C'mon guys.

Cannith Crafting was built to be relatively blind to class, requiring soul gems without requiring stuff that other types of classes have complete dominion over is crazy.

I'm not against various kinds of class codependency, but just ONE heavily weighted dependency (soul gems) that requires access to a 7th level wiz/soc spell is not the way to go.

[Exanimus]

I've always supported Soul Gems having more use in game - sure, not everyone has a caster, but it would give the spell more reason for existing, and also ensure player-to-player interaction, as an MMO should be played.

I wouldn't mind Wizards and Sorcs being sought out for Trapped Souls, Rogues being sought out for Trap Parts (trap parts could be used in Cannith Crafting, think on it!), etc. I wouldn't mind if the Bard Skill song gave you an extra 10% on crafting - bards would be on hire to help assist people.

This actually assist cooperative gameplay, rather than the 10.1 mistaken implementations that would work to destroy it.

Also, to play Devil's Advocate - anyone can use an Epic Souleater to get Soul Gems. If they really really really didn't want to make friends to the point that someone could provide them the Soul Gems, and also did not want to raid, that is their other option.

That... or just roll a dang caster. They're fun!

as an mmo 'should' be played? your opinion, a game should be played how you enjoy playing it...or don't play it at all. Dependence on other classes/players causes more drama than anything else and should be avoided, or have an alternative to that kind of reliance. waiting until being able to acquire a rare item is not an answer, rolling a class you don't enjoy playing just to be able to craft isn't fun either...thieves already have to have soul gems...that worked out well didn't it? i see high powered grenades everywhere >.>

Played a certain mmo for years...where one class had the power to do what every other class needed...the drama was endless, and the only alternative was a probability of high to certain failure, or roll and level that class yourself.

facebook on the other hand has tons of cooperative games...plenty of socializing too.

personally glad this update was scrapped, made zero sense, some of the ingredients i saw were worth more than the shard they made...maybe you need your devs/designers to actually play this eh? have them find out first hand what a grind crafting already is before they modify it, numbers, spreadsheets, whatever don't take into account time in quests, running back and forth, skipping quests you've already ransacked for grindables, cost in hirelings, bad pugs, failed shards trying for that little extra crafting xp, crafting then breaking the shards down to craft again, inventory space, bag space, bank space all getting filled up, repairing gear after quests, buying pots, wands...in general questing supplies all just for GRINDING FOR CRAFTING. ffs

get them out of their comfy chairs and intellectual realm into the real game to see what it's like eh?