Feedback - Crafting - Update 10, Patch 1

[good_ole_corwin]

The sad thing is, the devs know that even after all this outrage, people wont really stop p(l)aying when crafting gets screwed over. Sure we will be peed off, sure we will cry on the forums, sure we will feel -insert an expletive here-. But since nobody (or a very small minority) is hooked on the game because of Cannith crafting, I do believe that only very few people will actually do anything to hurt Turbine, like cancel their subscriptions or stop buying TPs. And most of those who quit will be f2pers and by definition, that doesnt cost Turbine money, might actually save a bit.

What really astounds me though is the "we are on a timetable, wont be able to fix the patch before it goes live" attitude - ok, timetable for what? Either you have a set date for patch 10.1 no matter what the patch entails (=you have to release A patch, even if you know its detrimental to the game) or you have a set date for patch 10.1 as it is (=the **** in it IS planned and not "unintentional"). Either way really only shows poor managerial skills from Turbine, because who cares about the deadline? The bulk of your customers dont even know about a deadline, nor do they care - so if there is a deadline, its a deadline just for the sake of having a deadline. And arent deadlines in IT development more of a guideline thing anyway, not real unbreakable rules?

If its the latter though (=the **** in it IS planned and not "unintentional"), then your sincere and apologetic response is not so sincere after all - and Im afraid I agree with the others who said theres just no way you could have "accidentally" screw up those recipes, because its not only about the recipes, its also the item descriptions and stuff like that. Thats like saying "It was an accident officer, he fell on my knife, I swear! And then 25 more times..."

Also, if you cant take out changes in the recipes out of the patch without a lot of coding effort, Im afraid youre doing your coding wrong. That should be only about editing database records, not really changing any actual code.

[Eme]

or, keep it like this,, but , drastically increase drop rates of raid loot, including tomes, and then concentrate on releasing end game Epic content and epic level raises, so a character can get higher than 20,( but not take new class levels), eg: 16 rogue/4monk / + 5 Epic Levels ( not class based, epic based, so TRs still only need to get to 20 )..

But then only create a new epic end game with uber epic items to find, that do not get used in crafting.

THis totally levels 1-20 for hardcore and casual players, and prepares you enough for super hard epic content as the gear to start with is level pegging, so a new comer with his first L20 at reaching 20 actually has some gear by the time he gets there and doesnt need to run eg: titan 60 times for a chattering ring.,

its just the extra extra extra special loot you find and keep a handle on with +epic+ levels..

[Eme]

have the gazillion monk wrap bugs been fixed btw?

[Altaweir]

Let's all pretend Cannith Crafting never happened.

[Antiopa]

I'm speechless... If raid loot/named loot is needed for crafting - no one will put things for roll.. And when they do everyone is going to roll on it even if they need the item or not...

If this becomes reality I might just stop playing.. Then it's not worth it for me.. I have to farm a lot to get the items I want anyways because everyone of the same class or multi-classes needs those items too.. This makes it impossible to get the items and therefore the game is not worth the fight for me anymore..

Hope to see a change for the better.. And if not.. It's been a nice 2 years period...

[ColsonJade]

Whooops. We clearly were out of line with several of these ingredients. Including items like Dreamspitter and Chattering Ring is an embarrasing error on our part and was in no way intentional.

Our motivation to add these extra ingredients (which was only made to a subset of recipes that concerned us) was to preserve and not devalue the efforts made by players to obtain many of the existing powerful named items in the game.

We will make changes. Unfortunately, they will not be made in time to alter the upcoming patch. As you know, the system is still in beta and we will effect changes as soon as we can.

Our apologies and thanks for the swift, clear feedback.

Wow really to late to fix? There isn't anything in this patch that matters that requires you to push out such a horrid issue.

[fyrst.grok]

The raid loot, tomes and ddo store items are a joke..
Requiring the named loot from several adventure packs is a bad way to force people into buying more content they otherwise would never be interested in.
Not even going to waste my time crafting if this go live..

If raids turn out to be everyone want everything - that could push people away from even wanting to play he game.
I for one got better things to do than run the same raid 200 times to get a tome or an item only to have someone take it for 'crafting' when it finally drops.

[TDarkchylde]

Cancel the rollout.

Unfortunately, I can't +1 you for this... because I've given out too much in this thread to responses like this!

I can't possibly agree more right now. If the patch can't be changed, it's got to be postponed til it can be, or outright cancelled. There's no other way.

[BoBo2020]

I said it earlier in this discussion, but it bears repeating. These changes have killed crafting, killed rolling for loot in pugs and will have people hoarding anything they can get their hands on because it 'might' be useful oneday...

Developers - please pledge right now in this thread, so no one can doubt it later, that raid loot will NEVER be required for crafting. Please undo this damage to the community before it is too late.

[le_goat]

They can't fix it. Remember, the patch is already on live servers, all they have to do is flip a switch.

someone set us up the bomb.

[theboyftw]

They can't fix it. Remember, the patch is already on live servers, all they have to do is flip a switch.

someone set us up the bomb.

sure they can. if they don't have images of the servers prior to putting the patch on them, they have worse problems than this.

[MrkGrismer]

Our motivation to add these extra ingredients (which was only made to a subset of recipes that concerned us) was to preserve and not devalue the efforts made by players to obtain many of the existing powerful named items in the game.

When you make an item of 'raid loot' required of a recipe you are saying that THAT recipe is better, WAY better then the item needed as an ingredient. It would have to be in order for a person to give up the ingredient in order to make the recipe.

If such is the case, then fine. But that is obviously NOT the case here.

If there is a recipe that gives you concern then simply increase the number of NORMAL ingredients needed for that recipe. Or even use some of the special ingredients that only drop in certain quests (or only as end rewards in certain quests, but not raids).

Some players do not raid AT ALL (or very seldom) so anything that requires doing a raid simply does not exist for those that do not raid.

In addition there is a limit to how many times a player is going to do the same quest over and over in order to get an item (much less an ingredient for an item). For me that number is a single-digit number, for others it is obviously higher. If you make it so that a player has to do any one specific quest more than 10 times in order to make an item be aware that doing so will make it so a significant portion of the populace will not think the item is worth it (unless the item is 'uber', of course).

[WangChi]

Are we regretting the XP reward for deconstructing shards/items yet?

What you have done is forced everyone who wishes to level up their toon the slow, methodical way of getting as much XP out of shard creation as possible - into the "craft level 1 shard, decon level 1 shard, rinse, repeat".

Why not fix the real issue? Turn off the xp for decon and remove greater giant/dragon lawful/chaotic/evil outsider banes from the list. Problem solved. If the "greater banes" are too powerful, then get rid of them.

[MrkGrismer]

While it is nice to get devs responding to stuff like this, this line makes me wonder what the point of Lamannia is. If something which is called out on by hundreds of players on the first day of Lamannia can't be changed for upcoming patches, why bother even having a place to put the changes on before the actual servers. A system where the developers give a preview of upcoming changes but are unable to change the changes after hearing feedback from players seems pointless.

From what I understand the point of Lamannia is to give the players a preview of upcoming content. Nothing more.

The fact that sometimes feedback from Lamannia results in changes before stuff goes live is an added bonus, but it is my understanding that such is not the purpose of Lamannia.

[Arkat]

Once you reach X level in crafting, churning out mass of X items...

I reached levels 75/75/21 the day before U10 was released. Just yesterday I reached levels 93/93/52.

Between the time U10 came out and yesterday, I made enough unbound shards for ONE guildy to be able to make a +4 Holy Silver Khopesh of Lawful Outsider Bane...ONE.

The rest of the other stuff I've made is for MY toons.

I just don't see the "churning out mass of x items" you seem to be talking about.

BTW...in the Khyber Marketplace forum, there are TWO (yes TWO) people advertising that they'd make items for you.

Settle the heck down. It's not NEARLY as bad as you're making it out to be. In fact, I think it's good. There are MANY other MMOs where people have taken the time to get their crafting up and have settled into a nice business in the game of crafting things for others. Since some of those games are still going strong, I don't see why Cannith crafting (the way it's implemented on Live servers now) would ruin DDO.

Really, until I see evidence to the contrary, DDO is fine and the 10.1 changes to Cannith Crafting (recipes) are unnecessary.

[Kakashi67]

Are we regretting the XP reward for deconstructing shards/items yet?

What you have done is forced everyone who wishes to level up their toon the slow, methodical way of getting as much XP out of shard creation as possible - into the "craft level 1 shard, decon level 1 shard, rinse, repeat".

Why not fix the real issue? Turn off the xp for decon and remove greater giant/dragon lawful/chaotic/evil outsider banes from the list. Problem solved. If the "greater banes" are too powerful, then get rid of them.

I prefer the RUKrazy method. Leave decon xp alone.

[PurpleTimb]

When I read this, literally the first thing that went through my mind was "Wait, what's the date? Is it April 1st?"

I can't imagine how anyone with a working knowledge of the game could have looked at this and thought 'That's a great idea! Let's implement THAT in our next update!'

I must say that the promised reduced animation time for each cycle of the crafting devices is a god-send. But I'll live with the 6 second pause while grinding for crafting XP if the only fix has to come along with a complete destruction of the current raid loot system.

We already have 'rare' crafting ingredients only available in quest end rewards. Why not just make those more rare and/or only available for completions at higher difficulties and then use those to limit access to high level shards? It would still accomplish the Devs' unstated, but obvious goal of forcing players to buy adventure packs to get access to higher level crafting.

[Arkat]

Let's all pretend Cannith Crafting never happened.

I can't. I put way too much time and effort into it.

However, if the recipes do change and then don't get put back the way they were, it will be the last straw and I will probably forget DDO ever happened.

[Arkat]

They can't fix it. Remember, the patch is already on live servers, all they have to do is flip a switch.

Then don't flip the switch.

[redoubt]

I've seen some bad ideas and thought it could not get any worse... but Turbine has proven me wrong yet again.

Do not use:
Raid loot
tomes
tome pages
anything that is rare but can be bought in the turbine store
etc