Feedback - Crafting - Update 10, Patch 1

[PNellesen]

So.. does this mean I shouldn't destroy my Min II scimis just yet?

[Yaga_Nub]

Mad...I have a lot of respect for you and your level of interaction with the community, but your statement contridicts itself. You clearly DID do it intentionally because you go on to explain WHY you did it. First rule of an appology is not to first try to claim it was an accident - take full responsiblity. Clearly you just underestimated player reaction.

Thank you however for agreeing to immediately to do the about face. I'll add my voice to those saying patch 1 needs to wait until you fix this.

Very true. The first rule of making a public apology is to ensure everything you say is the absolute truth otherwise it makes things worse than before.

[claydogg73]

Bwahahahah... this is so brilliant that I have to wonder if Turbine planned it this way!

Think about it! Since this update will go live with ridiculous requirements for crafting, it will put a major pause on all crafting of those pesky holy burst silver greater evil outsider bane weapons until at least the next patch (among the grinders who have already achieved a high level of crafting).

Then when the patch 2 comes out in a month with heavier requirements than the original crafting, but at least no raid loot, all the players will go "well at least it doesn't require a dreamspitter or a chattering ring" even though it will still require purified dragon shards (requiring expensive items or... guess what... turbine points!).

MadFloyd I am not attacking you or turbine here. Nor am I saying this was actually planned. But coming from a player that has been paying my $10-$15 per month since pre-order and buying $50 worth of turbine point probably once every 2-3 months since the store came out... this whole incident actually makes me more frustrated with this game that I have ever been in the past 5 years.

It only serves to underline the basic antagonistic principle that comes around these days. Instead of making the game more fun and more interesting, there is an enormous tendency to make it more of a grind and to push players into using the store more. Basically, it's a way of showing that keeping a long term player base is less important that sucking in a bunch of new players, taking their money, and then shuffling them off for the next batch.

It's this kind of myopic shortsightedness (intentionally redundant) that will drive away more and more long term players.

I have to agree with Jesster that i think this was no accident. This is easy way for them to usher in some "just slightly less insane" ingredient requirements in next patch or Update 11. This is not good...

[dkyle]

More stuff is available:

Oh, yes, those look very unintentional.

[zorander6]

Ok, I understand that some feel being able to craft better weapons than those that they spend a ton of time getting upsets them. I think they are a small minority of people but the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Making extremely rare raid loot required for something that I have no other chance of getting (as I don't raid and I don't have time to raid) is one of the dumbest things I think I've heard.

I'm having a very hard time staying in forums guidelines on this but what were they smoking and why aren't they sharing?

I would love to be able to play 24/7 like some people, but I am married and the wife doesn't like me playing for more than an hour a week. How the **** am I going to get enough rare loot to even craft something useful. This is totally pointless for me. Crafting was one thing I was looking forward to, I enjoy crafting things and trying to make weird combinations that work for me. Sure I know I'll never have a fire/holy/icey/slow burst vorpal longsword of paralyzing/superior potency vii/spell pen vii/everbright/seeker +8 but I can dream can't I?

[Hikup]

Please note that posts which call for developers to be fired, or which contain personal attacks against Turbine employees, will face disciplinary action. Thanks.

Please note, you make ridiculous changes to a system that barely works to begin with (think handwraps) and people might get frustrated with your company

[fool101]

wow and golf-LOL (you know the sad kind) to this thread and the changes.


To add some other suggestions:

1. favor rewards seem like an acceptable crafting ingredient. It increases certain pack usage and only needs to be achieved once per crafter.
-Silver flame pots for holy burst - thematically make sense
-Take this further, instead of named raid loot for outsider banes, what about yugo pots for this.

2. This suggestion is not preferred by me, but could work - give a rare chance on certain weapon effects' deconstruction to drop a special shard. Ex - deconstructing a superior potency 6 weapon has a small chance to drop x ingredient required for spell pen 8, or something along those lines.

[Glenalth]

And all the higher level shards take the new Eberrons.

How ridiculously expensive does that make leveling?

[dkyle]

So.. does this mean I shouldn't destroy my Min II scimis just yet?

Actually, not so much. I mean, don't destroy a MinII, but the changes don't change its worth much.

Ironically, MinIIs are just about as pointless to make after the patch as they are now. Holy hasn't changed, and the price increase on Evil Outsider isn't much (two medium Shroud ingredients are nothing). +4 Holy Silver of EOB is all you need to match or beat a MinII.

Oddly, the +4 Unholy Cold Iron of Chaotic Outsider Bane weapons I've made are now much harder to make. And those are much less useful.

[Vengeance777]

Just thought of how frustrating its going to be when someone uses a dreamspitter on on a GLOB shard and applies it to handwraps that don't work. Or when someone attempts a recipe at 95% and looses a Chattering Ring that took 20 raid completions to get. It will happen if this patch goes live.

[TheDjinnFor]

More stuff is available:

Greater Ooze Bane: Muckbane
Elec Absorb 33% now level 77: Charged Gauntlets
Fire Absorb 33% also level 77: Scorched Bracers
Greater Vermin Bane: Bracers of Spiderkind
Greater Animal Bane: Rabbit Gloves
Greater Construct Bane: Sovereign Dragontouched Rune of Smiting!!
Greater Dwarf Bane: Golden Greaves
Greater Monstrous Humanoid Bane: Adamantine Sickle (the lordsmarch one)
Greater Elf Bane: Allegiance *and* Coronation
Greater Reptilian Bane: Mantle of the Dragonfriend
Greater Aberration Bane: Nature's Vengeance
Attack Bonus +4: Spectral Gloves. No joke.
Greater Gnoll Bane: Gloves of Gnoll Hide
Greater Orc Bane: Skullsmasher
Greater Goblinoid Bane: Twinblade
Greater Giant Bane: Kelmar's Justice
Greater Human Bane: Bloody Cleaver
Greater Elemental Bane: Theurgic Stave
Greater Undead Bane: Boneshard Flute and Coronation
Greater Evil Outsider Bane: Large Scale and Demon's Blood
Greater Dragon Bane: 1 Flawless Siberys Shard AND *FIVE* Blood of Dragons. Really? Really?
Vampirism: Chaosblade

And all the higher level shards take the new Eberrons.

/Face. /****ing. /Desk.

I'm willing to consider a few screwups. But Spectral gloves? Firestorm greaves? Charged Gauntlets? Flawless Siberys Shard????

[Lost_Leader]

First off, I agree with everyone who is saying do not send this patch live. There is no reason to. The patch is about crafting, and the crafting is effed. Whole thing needs a major overhaul with every single one of those changed recipes needing a once over. And then look over the once over. Better do that in triplicate.

I went and looked at the recipes, and while Chattering Ring stands out as the most outrageous, there are a bunch.

Tome of Legend's weapons Twinblade and Coronation
Sovereign Rune of Smiting.
5 Blood of Dragons for a single greater dragon bane
Chaosblade!
Spectral Gloves
+1-+3 tomes? Well, guess I won't be giving those away anymore.


To even consider using BtC items after we finally got it so that you can trade shards on your account so you dont need to have multiple crafters, is a big oopsie.

It is easier to farm high end gear that is better than crafted stuff than it is to farm the **** to make this stuff.

This whole concept is really going to suck for all those premium players out there who want a crafter. They are going to need to purchase every single pack to get access to recipes, but that definitely seems like a goal turbine has here, so be it. They are a business here to make money after all.

I have been enjoying crafting, levels 75+ across the board. I'll wait to see how this is all toned down before I throw in the towel on crafting, but even if they tone it way down, chances are I will just say forget it on crafting, and just go get good items that drop in game. It is so much easier than what we have here.

[TheLordBear]

The nerd rage in here is amazing.

I've loved the crafting system so far, and I think the devs did this change in the great "Quest for Balance". They made crafting go from maybe a bit too easy to WAY too hard.

The changes are game breaking for reasons beyond crafting and should not hit live.

Having tomes to make purified shards will make prices of tomes skyrocket on the AH, for an already expensive item. Epic tokens would be ok, but would lockout anyone without capped toons. Astral diamonds - whatever, a developer has to eat, but there should be other methods too (100 greaters or something).

As others have said, making this live for even a while will make players start to hoard raid loot. As a software developer, we delay and fix broken betas, and turbine should too.

Its too bad really, because I really like every single one of the other fixes except the plat on deconstruct one. The crafting system has been a great plat sink and economy fixer. It should stay that way.

[Grindor]

Another point I think has been missed completely is accessibility. I play in a small group and we don't do all the raids and we don't do epic content. Crafting reinvigorated the game for us because we could actually get weapons that were pretty good (not amazing, but pretty good) with out having to join in some bunch of zerg raid/epic groups. It's bad enough you're requiring items from all the different content (at least we own almost all of it, but many people do not) but it's all insanely difficult to get.

This isn't just the death of crafting, as far as my group is concerned, it's the death of the game.

[dkyle]

Or when someone attempts a recipe at 95% and looses a Chattering Ring that took 20 raid completions to get. It will happen if this patch goes live.

When you're trading in a Chattering Ring for a Greater Halfling Bane Shard, "success" rate kind of loses its meaning.

[Asketes]

/sarcasm (i'm just having fun at the idea that it won't be fixed before the patch goes live, no harm really meant lol)

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[WangChi]

When you're trading in a Chattering Ring for a Greater Halfling Bane Shard, "success" rate kind of loses its meaning.

HA! So true.

Bye bye crafting, you were fun while you lasted.

[transtemporal]

Thanks for the info Scraap, thats certainly very... interesting.

[khaldan]

First off, I agree with everyone who is saying do not send this patch live. There is no reason to. The patch is about crafting, and the crafting is effed. Whole thing needs a major overhaul with every single one of those changed recipes needing a once over. And then look over the once over. Better do that in triplicate.

I went and looked at the recipes, and while Chattering Ring stands out as the most outrageous, there are a bunch.

Tome of Legend's weapons Twinblade and Coronation
Sovereign Rune of Smiting.
5 Blood of Dragons for a single greater dragon bane
Chaosblade!
Spectral Gloves
+1-+3 tomes? Well, guess I won't be giving those away anymore.


To even consider using BtC items after we finally got it so that you can trade shards on your account so you dont need to have multiple crafters, is a big oopsie.

It is easier to farm high end gear that is better than crafted stuff than it is to farm the **** to make this stuff.

This whole concept is really going to suck for all those premium players out there who want a crafter. They are going to need to purchase every single pack to get access to recipes, but that definitely seems like a goal turbine has here, so be it. They are a business here to make money after all.

I have been enjoying crafting, levels 75+ across the board. I'll wait to see how this is all toned down before I throw in the towel on crafting, but even if they tone it way down, chances are I will just say forget it on crafting, and just go get good items that drop in game. It is so much easier than what we have here.

Chaosblade!

waitwhatnow

[grodon9999]

Another possibility is Turbine doesn't feel like supporting this stuff anymore and figures if they simply make it impossible to craft nobody will bother.