Feedback - Crafting - Update 10, Patch 1

[Kalari]

The thing is the crafting system is off not just by the powerful items but by making something that should have been simple into this convoluted mess.

We shouldnt have even begun to get into the direction of needing raid loot or raid materials (ie amrath or shroud) in the new crafting system at all because this should have been a completely seperate entity.

I was cool with using collectibles many of us gathered this stuff for years and wondered if there would be more for them.

I didnt even whine at the new mystic stuff which we still dont know fully what were going to do with though it adds more junk to hold onto.

What I dont get is why its always the same things were crafting where are our potions? ability to make our own scrolls named personal items and the like? Crafting fluff items may seem like something to poo poo at but honestly I think it would have been more readily accepted then you know.

Its always the same old same old every crafting system that has been introduced has had the same result making a more powerful item while forgetting that some of us just want a fun time sink and making simple things that we can show off not just against mobs would be nice to.

Bring some simplicity and see where it takes you thats all Im saying.

[dingal]

Bwahahahah... this is so brilliant that I have to wonder if Turbine planned it this way!

Think about it! Since this update will go live with ridiculous requirements for crafting, it will put a major pause on all crafting of those pesky holy burst silver greater evil outsider bane weapons until at least the next patch (among the grinders who have already achieved a high level of crafting).

Then when the patch 2 comes out in a month with heavier requirements than the original crafting, but at least no raid loot, all the players will go "well at least it doesn't require a dreamspitter or a chattering ring" even though it will still require purified dragon shards (requiring expensive items or... guess what... turbine points!).

MadFloyd I am not attacking you or turbine here. Nor am I saying this was actually planned. But coming from a player that has been paying my $10-$15 per month since pre-order and buying $50 worth of turbine point probably once every 2-3 months since the store came out... this whole incident actually makes me more frustrated with this game that I have ever been in the past 5 years.

It only serves to underline the basic antagonistic principle that comes around these days. Instead of making the game more fun and more interesting, there is an enormous tendency to make it more of a grind and to push players into using the store more. Basically, it's a way of showing that keeping a long term player base is less important that sucking in a bunch of new players, taking their money, and then shuffling them off for the next batch.

It's this kind of myopic shortsightedness (intentionally redundant) that will drive away more and more long term players.

I'm not much of one for conspiracy theories but this does stink of something that had to be on purpose. It's simply far too stupid to be an accident.

[Riggs]

One of the dumbest moves Turbine has ever made...

Now that you have established that raid loot items will be used in crafting, and we never know what existing named and raid loot items will be turned into important crafting componants later, everyone is stupid not to take every piece of named and raid loot for themselves and keep it - just in case.

One of the best aspects of this game is the /roll for loot standard mechanic used in almost every raid where people freely give stuff away - and Turbine just killed that.

Sorry, I need that chattering ring for crafting.

Sorry, I don't have a Tharnes in storage yet just in case they turn it into a good crafting item later.

Then there is the fact that you have BtC items required to do crafting... and most people are crafting on only 1 character (pretty much forced that way by the horrible grind of the system). So now you have to run your crafter through raids to grind for crafting ingredients? Really?

Yeah...really dumb...on so many levels. Really makes you wonder if the dev who designed this plays the game.

Again +1

Someone thought it would be a good idea to increase the grind - so either every single one of your characters has to sit for weeks crafting up to a high level to use their raid loot in crafting - or the one character that 99.9999999% of people use to craft will have to be running every single raid, take every single piece of raid loot they get, and do it all every 3 days - in addition to sitting crafting for xp, because they are going to need 20th and 40th raid lists to have a hope in heck of even getting the items.

But hey - this is all going to change now!....Someday.

The game will only be broken for a couple months. No harm there right?

[PNellesen]

Great point......WHY is there a test server if you can't change things before they go live?

Isn't that the ENTIRE POINT of a test server? To test things out BEFORE they go live and CHANGE THEM if they are fubar?


Seriously......I'm asking.

That's how it works in my job, at least. "Test" is "Place where we put code and have people run tests, then fix anything broken and redeploy until it's right", it's not "A holding place for code that will not be changed until we release to production."

[simo0208]

As a person who was on a playtest team for a CCG for years, I can say that developers often think it's "cool" to surprise everyone (including the playtest team) with their fancy idea (such as this). It NEVER worked out well and it took a couple of years in that game to get a good lead designer who actually valued his playtest team and their insights. I can't see any way that this would get past a playtest team had they showed it to them. I'm guessing they didn't.

To DDO/Turbine: Use your playtesters as a sounding board for this. That's their job; it will save you a lot of headaches.

[Mithis]

Don't release this patch until you fix it and make the community happy. Damage will be done even if you plan on fixing it later.

[dejafu]

http://www.hulu.com/watch/10310/satu...bad-idea-jeans

[Bilger]

Yeah.....why don't you guys just NOT roll it out......FIX IT.....THEN ROLL IT OUT?

Right?

This!!

[Monkey_Archer]

To offer some constructive feedback regarding the "increased costs":

I think its important to realize that there are 2 distinctly different reasons to craft any particular shard.

1) to apply it to a weapon
2) for xp

For reason #1, the increased costs make sense (ignoring the clearly broken requirements like raid loot). For example, 1 large devil scale and a few epic tokens is a fair price for some of the most powerful effects I suppose. I don't particularly like it, but it seems balanced enough... (also ignoring the fact that people who can currently craft on live can make this stuff dirt cheap, comparatively )

For reason #2, increasing the costs of all high level shards to similar levels makes absolutely no sense at all. While paying a large scale and some tokens for a high level shard is fine, paying hundreds of devil scales and possibly thousands of tokens to level up is completely absurd.

So devs, after the broken raid loot requirements get removed, and the system gets toned down, please consider point #2 seriously when fixing the system. There should still be viable ways to level up to reasonably high levels, at a reasonable pace, without wasting away years of accumulated gear.

[Stanley_Nicholas]

First off, why isn't the crafting feedback thread in the crafting discussion sub-forum? That's the first place I looked for it this morning after reading the release notes and, not finding a thread there already, I started one that has now been locked. It seems this thread is in the wrong place.

I've read the first 4 pages of this thread so far and haven't seen it mentioned yet - have they changed the cost of shards of potential too? I need to know if I have to grind out an obscene amount to lesser essences too before the update. I'll make some more greater banes and holy bursts and +5's, but it would be nice to not have to do all the shards of potential now as well. Regardless, all I'm going to do is stock as many greater bane and holy burst shards as I can before the update, then never bother with the crafting system again, ever. This new change is utterly ridiculous.

[Thrudh]

It might also be that they want a timeout with the geobs/globs etc

Ah, that's it... Too many of these are being created, and they can't wait to fix the patch... They feel they need to stop the proliferation first (they may be right)

[LordPiglet]

Whooops. We clearly were out of line with several of these ingredients. Including items like Dreamspitter and Chattering Ring is an embarrasing error on our part and was in no way intentional.

Our motivation to add these extra ingredients (which was only made to a subset of recipes that concerned us) was to preserve and not devalue the efforts made by players to obtain many of the existing powerful named items in the game.

We will make changes. Unfortunately, they will not be made in time to alter the upcoming patch. As you know, the system is still in beta and we will effect changes as soon as we can.

Our apologies and thanks for the swift, clear feedback.

If you can not preventing from going to live servers, you should then just turn off access to the crafting halls (as you were able to turn off access to red fens during it's epic scroll issues).

[Thrudh]

If you can not preventing from going to live servers, you should then just turn off access to the crafting halls (as you were able to turn off access to red fens during it's epic scroll issues).

Yes, that would be better than destroying our "good for the community" raid loot system

[BDS]

While it is nice to get devs responding to stuff like this, this line makes me wonder what the point of Lamannia is. If something which is called out on by hundreds of players on the first day of Lamannia can't be changed for upcoming patches, why bother even having a place to put the changes on before the actual servers. A system where the developers give a preview of upcoming changes but are unable to change the changes after hearing feedback from players seems pointless.

This.

[Kourier]

First post ever here (this thread warrants one)... and I really, really do not know which is sadder... The fact that the devs even thought up such an absolute ridiculous idea as the one they put forth for the crafting changes... or the fact that they didn't take a wee lil time out and actually review, look at and THINK about what they were putting out...

My good god.. I am paying money for this...

Hi rainsea!

[Fejj]

Well the silver lining is that the lag will go away once people all stop crafting!!!

Please don't tell us these decisions were unintentional. I don't buy it.

The disconnect is obvious here ..... some people over there (Turbine) just have no idea what goes on in the game.

This patch will destroy more than crafting ....

[delicious.crab]

Whooops. We clearly were out of line with several of these ingredients. Including items like Dreamspitter and Chattering Ring is an embarrasing error on our part and was in no way intentional.

Our motivation to add these extra ingredients (which was only made to a subset of recipes that concerned us) was to preserve and not devalue the efforts made by players to obtain many of the existing powerful named items in the game.

We will make changes. Unfortunately, they will not be made in time to alter the upcoming patch. As you know, the system is still in beta and we will effect changes as soon as we can.

Our apologies and thanks for the swift, clear feedback.

Oh man.
Oh man I hate to do this. I really do. Because I HATE it when people flame the devs because they're butthurt, and because I think they're really good at what they do, and they get nuked all the time.
But I have to ask here.
Unintentional?
How did the flipping chattering ring slip into this? Or the dreamspitter? Or X,Y,Z?
As others have pointed out, the effects on the scarcity of good loot in the raid environment entailed by this are... well.. staggering.
And a response like this really really really makes it look like this was more of a trial balloon... "how much more grind can we put into this? Not just into crafting, but into starving players of BtA raid loot?"
I don't think that's a case, I sure hope it's not.
But a little more communication and clarification as to how chattering ring, dreamspitter, et al., got oopsied into this situation would help a great deal.

The only solution to this is a complete rollback. Implementing something even vaguely like this in any live, production version, in any way, will be exceedingly cynical and abusive. Keep the rare mats, fine.

But start over. From scratch. Pull the plug on Lammania, get out the drawing boards, and reimplement. I think that devs/producers are walking a dangerous line with this and may not realize how angry people really are with this. And that this is the kind of change that makes people stay angry because it fundamentally affects a large part of the game.

Roll it back, you can do better.
Thanks guys.

[MaxwellEdison]

I'm not much of one for conspiracy theories but this does stink of something that had to be on purpose. It's simply far too stupid to be an accident.

Raid items as ingredients is the new New Coke.

[LordPiglet]

Why don't you put the patch on hold until the crafting has lost it's I WANT YOUR SOUL I WILL EAT YOUR SOUL charm?

Are there any essential bugfixes contained?

Re: crafting. I think that including unbound, but named items in higher tier recipies is a good move to make these reasonably hard to make.

I agree about including unbound, named items in higher tier recipe's. Bound rare raid loot crosses a line. I don't even have a problem with devil scales and demon blood, those higher level shard for greater banes should be expensive.

[somenewnoob]

Aside from the idiocy that was the material requirements.....the rest sounded pretty **** sweet!

But seriously, just hold it and fix it.