Feedback - Crafting - Update 10, Patch 1

[BruceTheHoon]

Including items like Dreamspitter and Chattering Ring is an embarrasing error on our part and was in no way intentional.

[Ironforge_Clan]

Wait . . . these changes made it passed Mournlands? i cannot imagine those people didn't give you the same reaction we all did here.

One has to wonder...don't they.

[dingal]

The sad part is that when this does go live greedy people WILL STILL loot raid items and craft with them knowing full well a change may be implemented in the near future.

Not knowing when or what will be updated sort of defeats the purpose of telling us a change will be made.

[Grifarr]

Then delay, restructure, or cancel the patch.

Delay it if you can take the time to rework this crafting snafu before it hits the Live servers.

Rework the patch to selectively scalpel out this crafting snafu, and allow the rest to go Live.

-or-

Cancel the patch if neither of the above can be done.

But, I think it's time that somebody on the Dev team stands up for the Players and says **** the timetables - this needs to be fixed before it goes Live. Not fixed after.

But on the timetable right after this patch is "Add to DDO Store: unequipable versions of all unique raid loot required for player crafting = $$$"

/cynical

[Coldin]

Then delay, restructure, or cancel the patch.

Delay it if you can take the time to rework this crafting snafu before it hits the Live servers.

Rework the patch to selectively scalpel out this crafting snafu, and allow the rest to go Live.

-or-

Cancel the patch if neither of the above can be done.

But, I think it's time that somebody on the Dev team stands up for the Players and says **** the timetables - this needs to be fixed before it goes Live. Not fixed after.

Exactly. I don't really see anything in this patch I absolutely have to have anyway.

[bradleyforrest]

Whooops. We clearly were out of line with several of these ingredients. Including items like Dreamspitter and Chattering Ring is an embarrasing error on our part and was in no way intentional.

Our motivation to add these extra ingredients (which was only made to a subset of recipes that concerned us) was to preserve and not devalue the efforts made by players to obtain many of the existing powerful named items in the game.

We will make changes. Unfortunately, they will not be made in time to alter the upcoming patch. As you know, the system is still in beta and we will effect changes as soon as we can.

Our apologies and thanks for the swift, clear feedback.

Thank you for the update. It's a first step. I understand that you guys have an internal deadline to hit and you can't get the changes in before that.

What you can do is tell us what the correct recipes should be looking like.

[RainSea]

Whooops. We clearly were out of line with several of these ingredients. Including items like Dreamspitter and Chattering Ring is an embarrasing error on our part and was in no way intentional.

Our motivation to add these extra ingredients (which was only made to a subset of recipes that concerned us) was to preserve and not devalue the efforts made by players to obtain many of the existing powerful named items in the game.

We will make changes. Unfortunately, they will not be made in time to alter the upcoming patch. As you know, the system is still in beta and we will effect changes as soon as we can.

Our apologies and thanks for the swift, clear feedback.

First post ever here (this thread warrants one)... and I really, really do not know which is sadder... The fact that the devs even thought up such an absolute ridiculous idea as the one they put forth for the crafting changes... or the fact that they didn't take a wee lil time out and actually review, look at and THINK about what they were putting out...

My good god.. I am paying money for this...

[menipos]

Do not let this go live. Correct it first.

[Riggs]

While it is nice to get devs responding to stuff like this, this line makes me wonder what the point of Lamannia is. If something which is called out on by hundreds of players on the first day of Lamannia can't be changed for upcoming patches, why bother even having a place to put the changes on before the actual servers. A system where the developers give a preview of upcoming changes but are unable to change the changes after hearing feedback from players seems pointless.

Dont mess things up with logic.

[TheDearLeader]

Whooops. We clearly were out of line with several of these ingredients. Including items like Dreamspitter and Chattering Ring is an embarrasing error on our part and was in no way intentional.

Our motivation to add these extra ingredients (which was only made to a subset of recipes that concerned us) was to preserve and not devalue the efforts made by players to obtain many of the existing powerful named items in the game.

We will make changes. Unfortunately, they will not be made in time to alter the upcoming patch. As you know, the system is still in beta and we will effect changes as soon as we can.

Our apologies and thanks for the swift, clear feedback.

It's already been said, but I think good things come in threes. Or maybe three hundreds.

If you don't feel, as a development team, that there is no time to revert the unintended changes prior to this patch rolling out? Just don't roll it out.

I liked other parts of the release notes, that I did. I will miss them, knowing that they *were* intended. But I think I speak for an overwhelming majority when I say : they can wait. Rather, We can wait.

But intentionally releasing something to the public (live servers, not Lammania), after identifying it, mentioning that you are aware of it day one that we could inform you of the issue? I don't know whose call in the company it is to make to cancel, or delay, updates. But I would highly suggest that person find a quiet room, devoid of all distractions, and reflect for an hour of uninterrupted silence on this:

Are the consequences of delaying this so bad that they are effectively worse than not?
------------------------------------------------------------------------


Total sidenote here: Which parts are intentional, which parts are unintentional? You've left us with a big gray area there. Farming Silver Flame Favor on my crafting toon for one formula doesn't sound like my cup of tea, for example.

[TheDjinnFor]

Whooops. We clearly were out of line with several of these ingredients. Including items like Dreamspitter and Chattering Ring is an embarrasing error on our part and was in no way intentional.

Our motivation to add these extra ingredients (which was only made to a subset of recipes that concerned us) was to preserve and not devalue the efforts made by players to obtain many of the existing powerful named items in the game.

We will make changes. Unfortunately, they will not be made in time to alter the upcoming patch. As you know, the system is still in beta and we will effect changes as soon as we can.

Our apologies and thanks for the swift, clear feedback.

Quoted for emphasis:

You had a perfectly good way to control the creation of high level items using those 'mystical' ingredients you get from end-rewards in some of the high-level quests; and then you gave them out like candy. Your fault, not ours.

If you promise to take this entire 'cost increasing' change and dump it straight in the trash bin as soon as you can and revert all costs back to their original costs, I will happily accept the following compromise:

1. Delete all mystical items that players currently have anywhere in their inventories or banks.
2. Require these mystical ingredients in the high level recipes that you want to control.
3. Reduce their drop rate to ~5-10% per completion, or less if desired.
4. Allow them to drop from any high level pack instead of specific ones, or allow them to be tradable.

I honestly don't mind it if you think powerful recipes should be hard to get even after getting to such a high level... but

for the love of all that is holy burst

do NOT require raid items, tomes, astral diamonds, epic tokens, or shroud ingredients to make these items!! Scrap it all!

[ShadowFlash]

Well...there is one positive to come out of this....It has completely united 100% the entire forum community on a single topic.

[delicious.crab]

Not on Lammania, but if this is correct then +1 to everything everyone is saying here.
I'm currently just capping my first char, and being from a small guild of a few RL friends who are somewhat more casual than I am, I have to say that they'll probably be very demoralized by this (as I will be.) I suspect to the point they might slowly stop playing - not in a huff, but just out of the feeling that there really isn't much of a place for any but the grindiest of players past cap. And I probably won't blame them. I might stick around, but man, this is a real slap in the teeth.

Try again guys, please? You've been on a roll, please don't squander that goodwill.

[Yaga_Nub]

This is a Dot One patch. It doesn't need to be released at all. The issues that it fixes are ones that we've lived with and can continue you live with without the patch.

Fix this abomination of a suggestion, release it with Update 11 and forget about this .1 patch. In fact if there needs to be a patch later on because of some weird bug that comes up, I hope that it is listed as a .2 patch because I don't trust your version control.

[Jandric]

Whooops. We clearly were out of line with several of these ingredients. Including items like Dreamspitter and Chattering Ring is an embarrasing error on our part and was in no way intentional.

Our motivation to add these extra ingredients (which was only made to a subset of recipes that concerned us) was to preserve and not devalue the efforts made by players to obtain many of the existing powerful named items in the game.

We will make changes. Unfortunately, they will not be made in time to alter the upcoming patch. As you know, the system is still in beta and we will effect changes as soon as we can.

Our apologies and thanks for the swift, clear feedback.

Thank you for stepping into the briar patch and posting this. However, I STRONGLY, urge you not to release this patch to the live servers until you've properly addressed this. The vast amount of your player base does not read this forum, and will simply stop crafting and never look back when they see the changes. The ones that know this is coming (and know that it will be adjusted later) will simply craft like crazy until it is released, then stop until it is fixed. I can deal with lobotomized hirelings and drag ingredients out of bags for as long as it takes for this to be corrected.

[SHOCK_and_AWE]

Including any named raid loot whatsoever in Cannith Crafting requirements is a very, very bad idea.

[BruceTheHoon]

Seriously, just hold the patch. We've all done it - no customer will think any less of you if you do. This however can not be said for releasing it as it is.

[Jesster]

Whooops. We clearly were out of line with several of these ingredients. Including items like Dreamspitter and Chattering Ring is an embarrasing error on our part and was in no way intentional.

Our motivation to add these extra ingredients (which was only made to a subset of recipes that concerned us) was to preserve and not devalue the efforts made by players to obtain many of the existing powerful named items in the game.

We will make changes. Unfortunately, they will not be made in time to alter the upcoming patch. As you know, the system is still in beta and we will effect changes as soon as we can.

Our apologies and thanks for the swift, clear feedback.

Bwahahahah... this is so brilliant that I have to wonder if Turbine planned it this way!

Think about it! Since this update will go live with ridiculous requirements for crafting, it will put a major pause on all crafting of those pesky holy burst silver greater evil outsider bane weapons until at least the next patch (among the grinders who have already achieved a high level of crafting).

Then when the patch 2 comes out in a month with heavier requirements than the original crafting, but at least no raid loot, all the players will go "well at least it doesn't require a dreamspitter or a chattering ring" even though it will still require purified dragon shards (requiring expensive items or... guess what... turbine points!).

MadFloyd I am not attacking you or turbine here. Nor am I saying this was actually planned. But coming from a player that has been paying my $10-$15 per month since pre-order and buying $50 worth of turbine point probably once every 2-3 months since the store came out... this whole incident actually makes me more frustrated with this game that I have ever been in the past 5 years.

It only serves to underline the basic antagonistic principle that comes around these days. Instead of making the game more fun and more interesting, there is an enormous tendency to make it more of a grind and to push players into using the store more. Basically, it's a way of showing that keeping a long term player base is less important that sucking in a bunch of new players, taking their money, and then shuffling them off for the next batch.

It's this kind of myopic shortsightedness (intentionally redundant) that will drive away more and more long term players.

[thandros]

watch them make seeker +6 require a blood stone or Marlith chain )

[Jacobius]

Whooops. We clearly were out of line with several of these ingredients. Including items like Dreamspitter and Chattering Ring is an embarrasing error on our part and was in no way intentional.

Our motivation to add these extra ingredients (which was only made to a subset of recipes that concerned us) was to preserve and not devalue the efforts made by players to obtain many of the existing powerful named items in the game.

We will make changes. Unfortunately, they will not be made in time to alter the upcoming patch. As you know, the system is still in beta and we will effect changes as soon as we can.

Our apologies and thanks for the swift, clear feedback.

OK if this was no way intentional then how is they are coded to show as craftable ing. when hovering over them in the recepies? And where they are looted at??