Feedback - Crafting - Update 10, Patch 1

[Sierim]

As has been said by many others regarding these changes...No, just no.

In terms of high quality Cannith crafted gear, this change will kill it. Lower level crafting may survive, but this change does not make putting effort into crafting desirable, or even reasonable. The costs for these recipes are far too high for far too low a return.

Furthermore, the use of BtC items for crafting seems inconsistent with the previous direction crafting was going, even less BtC raid loot. If a raid loot has a drop rate of 5%, with a 66 hour timer, more than 35 days will be required on average to have even a 50% chance of receiving the item. If one was just looking for a raid item, that would be fine, but for ingredients, that's a bit much.

Initially, crafting seemed to me to be the "quick, but expensive" route for gaining nice items. With this setup it's "slower than traditional grinding and outrageously overpriced."

[Ironforge_Clan]

While it is nice to get devs responding to stuff like this, this line makes me wonder what the point of Lamannia is. If something which is called out on by hundreds of players on the first day of Lamannia can't be changed for upcoming patches, why bother even having a place to put the changes on before the actual servers. A system where the developers give a preview of upcoming changes but are unable to change the changes after hearing feedback from players seems pointless.

Again this type of thing makes me wonder what actually goes on on the test servers and why changes like this ever even make it to our preview server. I agree what is the point.

Please drop 10.1!

[Schmoe]

Here's how I imagine the development process went:


(Senior Designer 1): "We'll add named loot to some of the higher-level recipes, that way the recipes will be a little more rare and difficult to complete. It will also give players a way to use obsolete or sub-optimal named loot that is currently just vendor trash."

(Senior Designer 2): "That's a great idea." [seeing a disheveled guy walk by] "Hey you, guy we just hired off the street who has never played DDO outside of Korthos"

(New guy): "Yeah?"

(Senior Designer 2): "I want you to add named items to any crafting recipe over level 30. Here's a list of named items, and here's a list of crafting recipes."

(New guy): "Ok."


<later that night>


(New guy): "Ok, devils are lawful, I guess a Devil Scale makes sense for lawful outsider bane. Halfling bane, hmm. There was that one obnoxious halfing in Heyton's Rest who just wouldn't shut up. Ok, Chattering Ring it is!"

[Kourier]

Whooops. We clearly were out of line with several of these ingredients. Including items like Dreamspitter and Chattering Ring is an embarrasing error on our part and was in no way intentional.

Our motivation to add these extra ingredients (which was only made to a subset of recipes that concerned us) was to preserve and not devalue the efforts made by players to obtain many of the existing powerful named items in the game.

We will make changes. Unfortunately, they will not be made in time to alter the upcoming patch. As you know, the system is still in beta and we will effect changes as soon as we can.

Our apologies and thanks for the swift, clear feedback.

PLEASE put this post where everyone can see it so we all can stop being inundated by justified outrage

[eunucorn]

We will make changes. Unfortunately, they will not be made in time to alter the upcoming patch. As you know, the system is still in beta and we will effect changes as soon as we can.
.

Thank you for responding Mr. Floyd. I do find it quite odd that it is not possible to not release this patch. Huh? But I'd say it doesn't really matter anyway. The damage is done.

What once seen cannot be unseen. There are a lot of things on the internet I'd like to unsee. This update is one of them.

[Coldin]

Whooops. We clearly were out of line with several of these ingredients. Including items like Dreamspitter and Chattering Ring is an embarrasing error on our part and was in no way intentional.

Our motivation to add these extra ingredients (which was only made to a subset of recipes that concerned us) was to preserve and not devalue the efforts made by players to obtain many of the existing powerful named items in the game.

We will make changes. Unfortunately, they will not be made in time to alter the upcoming patch. As you know, the system is still in beta and we will effect changes as soon as we can.

Our apologies and thanks for the swift, clear feedback.

Perhaps it would be best to simply disable those recipes until suitable replacements can be made?

[Bodic]

Whooops. We clearly were out of line with several of these ingredients. Including items like Dreamspitter and Chattering Ring is an embarrasing error on our part and was in no way intentional.

Our motivation to add these extra ingredients (which was only made to a subset of recipes that concerned us) was to preserve and not devalue the efforts made by players to obtain many of the existing powerful named items in the game.

We will make changes. Unfortunately, they will not be made in time to alter the upcoming patch. As you know, the system is still in beta and we will effect changes as soon as we can.

Our apologies and thanks for the swift, clear feedback.

So UHm dont drop the patch on us and Give us a real UPDATE later. Its not like there is anything of real value that will keep more players than you will lose if that patch goes live as is.

[karl_k0ch]

Why don't you put the patch on hold until the crafting has lost it's I WANT YOUR SOUL I WILL EAT YOUR SOUL charm?

Are there any essential bugfixes contained?

Re: crafting. I think that including unbound, but named items in higher tier recipies is a good move to make these reasonably hard to make.

[somenewnoob]

Great point......WHY is there a test server if you can't change things before they go live?

Isn't that the ENTIRE POINT of a test server? To test things out BEFORE they go live and CHANGE THEM if they are fubar?


Seriously......I'm asking.

[Ironforge_Clan]

Then delay, restructure, or cancel the patch.

Delay it if you can take the time to rework this crafting snafu before it hits the Live servers.

Rework the patch to selectively scalpel out this crafting snafu, and allow the rest to go Live.

-or-

Cancel the patch if neither of the above can be done.

But, I think it's time that somebody on the Dev team stands up for the Players and says **** the timetables - this needs to be fixed before it goes Live. Not fixed after.

/signed ten thousand times

[Mercureal]

Whooops. We clearly were out of line with several of these ingredients. Including items like Dreamspitter and Chattering Ring is an embarrasing error on our part and was in no way intentional.

Our motivation to add these extra ingredients (which was only made to a subset of recipes that concerned us) was to preserve and not devalue the efforts made by players to obtain many of the existing powerful named items in the game.

We will make changes. Unfortunately, they will not be made in time to alter the upcoming patch. As you know, the system is still in beta and we will effect changes as soon as we can.

Our apologies and thanks for the swift, clear feedback.

Thanks Madfloyd, for replying quickly to our concerns, I don't know if anyone's seen this yet, but it's somewhat reassuring. Hopefully the changes will be broader than just removing the Chattering Ring and Dreamspitter from recipes.

[Yaga_Nub]

Whooops. We clearly were out of line with several of these ingredients. Including items like Dreamspitter and Chattering Ring is an embarrasing error on our part and was in no way intentional.

Our motivation to add these extra ingredients (which was only made to a subset of recipes that concerned us) was to preserve and not devalue the efforts made by players to obtain many of the existing powerful named items in the game.

We will make changes. Unfortunately, they will not be made in time to alter the upcoming patch. As you know, the system is still in beta and we will effect changes as soon as we can.

Our apologies and thanks for the swift, clear feedback.

The crafting system has seemed to be separate from each update so just don't turn on the update to the crafting system. If this goes live until update 11 then you and the other devs better do a real fast job getting update 11 turned around and out the door quickly.

I'd like to call on the devs to use focus groups of ACTUAL PLAYERS that play on live at least twice as much as they play on the server that gets you banned for mentioning it BEFORE doing any coding work. Once again a group of devs has proven with its actions that they have ZERO understanding about the game that they code for and they need to be sentenced to about a month of non-stopped play time on actual servers before they are allowed to even offer up suggestions for changes to the game.

PS - That's not an attack on the devs, it's a cold, hard fact.

[phum]

While it is nice to get devs responding to stuff like this, this line makes me wonder what the point of Lamannia is. If something which is called out on by hundreds of players on the first day of Lamannia can't be changed for upcoming patches, why bother even having a place to put the changes on before the actual servers. A system where the developers give a preview of upcoming changes but are unable to change the changes after hearing feedback from players seems pointless.

Some changes require more effort and time than others.. Maybe they managed to hardcode it somehow so that it's difficult to change Or they are rushing the update out soon. It might also be that they want a timeout with the geobs/globs etc and the change (CONSPIRACY THEORY #100) intentional:P Who knows.. real weird mistake anyway..
edit. I type slow^^

[simo0208]

Simple as this: This patch goes live, I cancel my subscription. I urge others to do the same. Considering what the developer said that this is a forgone conclusion that this is going live, it's been fun.

[dejafu]

Mad thanks for responding...but DONT RELEASE THE PATCH if you cant fix it first. IT WILL KILL CRAFTING WHEN PEOPLE SEE THIS...EVEN IF YOU ARE GOING TO FIX IT.

JUST WAIT ON THE PATCH TILL YOU CAN UPDATE IT CORRECTLY!

I'm normally the kind of guy who advocates "release it now so we get the good stuff, deal with the kinks and flaws in the next patch," but I'm with darkrhavyn on this one. Even with all the spiffy new stuff I'd love to have live (smart bags? plat from deconstruction? new rock in the marketplace? booyah!), this change is bad enough that the damage done from even briefly releasing it as-is would be awful.

It doesn't matter how much people in the forums spread the word, a lot of folks who DON'T read the forums will rage-quit permanently. Heck, even many of those who know that the situation is only temporary will probably leave in disgust.

That being said, THANK YOU for responding within the same day, MadFloyd. I was worried that this was the kind of thing that would take a couple of staff meetings before a dev would be allowed to respond.

[Riggs]

...
Note that this change in particular doesn't just make crafting more difficult! If it only affected the people who wanted to use the crafting system, that would be one thing. This makes gearing ANY character more difficult. Up until now, it was entirely possible to ignore the crafting system and not be penalized for that. That changes with this change. This is a HUGE problem so I'm going to bold it: before, there was no punishment for not crafting. Now, everyone gets punished for the addition of the crafting system whether or not they choose to use it.
...

+1

Everyone loses out even if they do not craft.

[Thalmor]

Perhaps it would be best to simply disable those recipes until suitable replacements can be made?

Very good Suggestion

[grodon9999]

I have adjusted the crafting level to where it will be when the patch goes live. Sorry about the delay I was distracted my Mournlands.

Wait . . . these changes made it passed Mournlands? i cannot imagine those people didn't give you the same reaction we all did here.

Just don't release this patch.

[Thrudh]

Then delay, restructure, or cancel the patch.

Delay it if you can take the time to rework this crafting snafu before it hits the Live servers.

Rework the patch to selectively scalpel out this crafting snafu, and allow the rest to go Live.

-or-

Cancel the patch if neither of the above can be done.

But, I think it's time that somebody on the Dev team stands up for the Players and says **** the timetables - this needs to be fixed before it goes Live. Not fixed after.

Yes, please.

Seriously... Understand that you will destroy rolling for raid loot. If this goes live for a while, even if you roll it back, no one will ever put raid loot up for a roll again, just in case.

[Glenalth]

The rare/named loot requirements are just stupid. On top of making crafting individual effects too expensive they are going to make leveling absolutely brutal.

The shards of potential that were added earlier were a good plan. It made the high level weapons more expensive, while keeping the individual effect costs low and useful for leveling. That seems like a better system to target if you are worried about powerful weapons being created than adding more material costs to the individual shards.



If you are really set on adding an extra cost to the most time consuming and grindiest system in the game...
Use random items with the effect you are trying to craft. That would fit right in with the earlier statements on how crafting was actually going to work.