Kindly request a Pale Master U9 build

[Qistnix]

Hello all,

I am rather new to the game and the forum and the whole DDO. Reading through the forum looking for info about a Palemaster build I found some great information. But when I was creating my PM I ran into a snag called U9.

Im at a loss now and require some assistance.

Can someone please post a PM build that includes the U9 changes.
Im looking for a 32point full wiz build.

Thank you,

Q

[Malky]

For a first life pale master, i think elf is the best way now due to the spell pen you can reach without any past lives. Here's the build i used for mine :

Chaotic Neutral lvl 20 Elf Wizard (32 pts)
18 int / 16 con at creation, all levelups into int obviously


Feats (some may be swapped if you like but beware of the wizard bonus feats, the list is kinda narrow)

01 (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell
01 (Selected) Toughness
03 (Selected) Maximize Spell
05 (Wizard Bonus) Spell Focus: Necromancy
06 (Selected) Insightful Reflexes
09 (Selected) Empower Spell
10 (Wizard Bonus) Spell Focus: Enchantment
12 (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy
15 (Wizard Bonus) Heighten Spell
15 (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment
18 (Selected) Spell Penetration
20 (Wizard Bonus) Quicken Spell


Enhancements (these are the ones i use at cap to CC effectively in epics, invest more into damage lines while levelling ofc)

PM, shroud & prereqs
Wizard Energy of the Scholar III
Wizard Intelligence III
Wizard Pale Master III
Shroud of the Lich

Damage&repair
Frost Manipulation I
Storm Manipulation I
Flame Manipulation I
Repair Manipulation I
Glacial Spellcasting I
Deadly Ice I
Wizard Wand and Scroll Mastery I

Spell pen
Elven Arcanum IV
Wizard Spell Penetration II

Metamagic enhancements (these are costly AP wise but very effective, maximize is for cheaper self healing)
Wizard Improved Maximizing III
Wizard Improved Quickening III

Toughness & capstone
Racial Toughness II
Wizard Master of Magic


Stats at cap

INT 18 base + 5 levelups +2 tome +6 item +2 exc. +3 enhancements +2 capstone +2 lich +2 ship = 42 most of the time, the +2 exc. comes from the pirate event trinket for me atm, if you don't have one you'll have to wait for your first slotted ToD ring.

CON 16 base +2 tome +6 item +4 lich +2 ship = 30


DCs & spellpen

Enchant : 10 +9 spell level +2 feats +2 item +16 int = 39
Necro : 10 +9 spell level +2 feats +2 item +1 lich +16 int = 40
Spell pen : 20 +2 feat +6 enhancements +1 ship = 29 without item

Easy to get stuff

Scepter of Mad Trickery and a crafted Greater necromancy light mithral shield of lightning absorption. These will provide you both greater focuses, spell pen VII and 33% lightning absorption. With them your spellpen will be 30 up to spell level 7 and 29 for spell levels 8&9


Further improvements on gear

Epic shaman's band will flatten your spellpen to 30 all over the board
Yugo favor will +1 to all your DCs when you need it
First 2 available out of +7 int / +3 tome / +1 exc. will add another DC

Once properly geared, TR into a human for more survivability, +1 possible DC & less APs spent into spell pen, that way you can max the improved heigthen line as well as the 2 already maxed here.

Hope it helps

[FastTaco]

True Neutral Level 20 Human Wizard
Strength 12
Dexterity 8
Constitution 16
Intelligence 18
Wisdom 8
Charisma 10


Level 1 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell
Feat: (Human Bonus) Maximize Spell
Feat: (Selected) Toughness

Level 3 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Insightful Reflexes

Level 5 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Empower Spell

Level 6 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Necromancy

Level 9 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy

Level 10 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Heighten Spell

Level 12 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration

Level 15 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Penetration
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Spell Focus: Enchantment

Level 18 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment

Level 20 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Quicken Spell





You can swap quicken and empower around if you would rather have quicken while leveling like I do. You can always play around with the enhancements to your liking, in reply to above poster I wouldn't suggest maxing out even 1 Metamagic enhancement... they cost a lot and I would rather put points into an elemental line.

And some good reading here: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=302573

[Malky]

If you're nuking in high-end content i feel you're doing something wrong, but that's how i concieve a CC/instakiller PM.

For levelling max fire & cold lines ofc, but in epics 1pt in cold&lightning damage + 75% clickie is enough for your DoTs to matter on bosses which is the only situation you should be using them.

Savants are here for nuking, wizards are here to CC / instakill and for that purpose saving your SPs is your best bet. (unlike AMs we don't have 3sp webs...)

Just consider negative energy burst maximized & quickened, assuming a -4 sp maximize item for both :

My build : 25sp base +5 quicken +11 maximize = 41 sp / cast
Yours : 25sp base +9 quicken +20 maximize = 54 sp / cast

Unless you have tons of TPs to burn on store pots, those enhancements are worth it imo.

[Rawel_San]

If you're nuking in high-end content i feel you're doing something wrong, but that's how i concieve a CC/instakiller PM.

If You're not nuking then you're definitely doing something wrong. Obviously you don't try to nuke the trash
and you definitely don't nuke with things as cost inefficient as neg energy burst, but when you get to the red
named putting up a couple of the new dots on him/her is awesomely cost efficient while adding quite a chunk
of DPS to the party (and if you have HP for it you can tank some of the easier bosses like craetos in eSnitch
and give your healer a bit of a break).

For levelling max fire & cold lines ofc, but in epics 1pt in cold&lightning damage + 75% clickie is enough for your DoTs to matter on bosses which is the only situation you should be using them.

Savants are here for nuking, wizards are here to CC / instakill and for that purpose saving your SPs is your best bet. (unlike AMs we don't have 3sp webs...)

Just consider negative energy burst maximized & quickened, assuming a -4 sp maximize item for both :

My build : 25sp base +5 quicken +11 maximize = 41 sp / cast
Yours : 25sp base +9 quicken +20 maximize = 54 sp / cast

Unless you have tons of TPs to burn on store pots, those enhancements are worth it imo.

I almost never use sp pots on my wizards (elite ToD or epic Velah gone horribly wrong being the few exceptions)
and I find that with only the first rank of improved maximize I can manage to do all instakills/cc I need
and still nuke nicely with full ranks in cold/lightning base lines and a 3 points in each of the crit lines.

Now to be fair I have lots of sp regen items to back me up so that helps, what malky says is probably a good
idea for a first life wizard without much gear. One thing to consider is actually dropping the GSF: enchant for
another toughness at least until you get our shroud/epic gear and tod rings. I had 2 toughness feats on my first
life and never regretted it. Don't get me wrong you definitely don't them if you can twitch and know what you
are doing and where to stand but again for a first life/first caster character that extra buffer will be nice.
Just my 2 copper,
Rawel

[Qistnix]

Thank you all for your advice.

Great stuff to give some thought.

[Malky]

you definitely don't nuke with things as cost inefficient as neg energy burst

Pretty much agrees on the rest but.... NEB is a heal for me, not a nuke, and sometimes in epics you have to heal yourself.

For sp conservation in epics i was more thinking about CoF, adq1 and the like... that i successfully CCd with 0 pots consumed (tho enhancements here are only one part of the trick, a good group will save you a lot of sp as well)

Yes the build i posted is very good when starting imo, but once you've got all the gear you need another enhancements layout will perform better.

[swaix1982]

Thank you all for your advice.

Great stuff to give some thought.

dude don't read Malky build or well.. u can read it if u need to laugh a bit
I did a lot of casters (I'm sorcerer with 3 past life wiz sorc wiz) and I never read something worst than this build , I've never seen som1 with these AP

imho with new AP system u can maximize 2 different elements get first step of Empower quicken and maximize for SP discount and it will be fine (u can use items in order to have additional discout as skiver, glove of glacial or similar)


futhermore Insightful Reflexes is good only if u multiclass with rogue (and I'm not recommend it.. wizard's cap enhancement is too awsome !!)

My build : 25sp base +5 quicken +11 maximize = 41 sp / cast
Yours : 25sp base +9 quicken +20 maximize = 54 sp / cast

sure.. but I will kill with 54 sp u will need at least 123 (41*3) sp cause of ur poor dmg....


LOL

[Mrmorphling]

futhermore Insightful Reflexes is good only if u multiclass with rogue

Uhm no, IR is very usefull end game where it'll allow you to survive 2 abishai in epic chrono w/o rolling two 20s for example or, in general, survive more than one spell from any epic caster.

That doesn't mean IR is strictly mandatory but for an end game well built palemaster (like one with mid 500 hp) it'll allow you to soak 2-4 spells instead of dieing at the second one.

[swaix1982]

Uhm no, IR is very usefull end game where it'll allow you to survive 2 abishai in epic chrono w/o rolling two 20s for example or, in general, survive more than one spell from any epic caster.

That doesn't mean IR is strictly mandatory but for an end game well built palemaster (like one with mid 500 hp) it'll allow you to soak 2-4 spells instead of dieing at the second one.

in my past life (wizard pale master lich) I had 43 DC ench (44 if in vampire from) and 44 DC necro (lich form)... normally I held an abishai b4 he could try to attack me!!
skills and timing are better than IR for saves

[Malky]

futhermore Insightful Reflexes is good only if u multiclass with rogue (and I'm not recommend it.. wizard's cap enhancement is too awsome !!)

Oh yeah sure, that's why all high end pure wizards have insightful reflexes

sure.. but I will kill with 54 sp u will need at least 123 (41*3) sp cause of ur poor dmg....

Negative energy damage is tied to your pale master PrE, not to a separate damage enhancement line. in est every and all pale master IIIs do exactly the same negative energy damage as long as they're using the same clickies.

Furthermore i might emphasis that one since some people seem to have some sight problems : Negative Energy Burst is used as a HEAL, not a NUKE

Basically if you're thinking about using NEB to nuke... please make your guild a favour and reroll

LOL
Btw can your multi TRd arcane solo CC e-chrono ? 'cause my first life wizard did it already, without torc/dq bracers/abbot robe/etc...

Comments

[Nephilia]

He was talking about fire/cold/energy/elec/acid (without any critic's enhancement for what I can read) damage not negative burst!
Try to read and understand Trolling is fun (as for u as for swaix) but at least he tried to understood what u've done before trolling

[swaix1982]

Btw can your multi TRd arcane solo CC e-chrono ? 'cause my first life wizard did it already, without torc/dq bracers/abbot robe/etc...

and also eWK, eVON1, eVON2 and could solo also e-dragon pillar and so on..... never had issues and I was a CC caster with fire/water tree maxed for elemental damages. with ur AP u are almost useless in e-dragon..
and btw... I have only GS for mana burst with no epic items except dagger from last event...

Basically if you're thinking about using NEB to nuke... please make your guild a favour and reroll

LOL who talked about Negative Energy Burst?

[Malky]

He was talking about fire/cold/energy/elec/acid (without any critic's enhancement for what I can read) damage not negative burst!

sure.. but I will kill with 54 sp u will need at least 123 (41*3) sp cause of ur poor dmg....

The sp numbers used here are my sample up the thread that was about NEB use for self healing. Since he used them (in a weird way, please show me those +200% enhancements) without specificating anything about what kind of spell he had in mind, i resorted to the last spell evoked with that precise sp cost... which is NEB.

The point of NEB and sp usage is that pale masters have it quite harder than WF archmages that only need to quicken their reconstructs when we have to maximize&quicken our bursts.

A starting wizard won't have conc/opp, torc & dq bracers magically when creating his toon so yes, self healing is gonna be a serious sp drain as soon as incoming damage overcomes the death aura healing. Add to this the fact that an epic searing light now does 250 dmg in average and you can see how often you'll need to burst your health up.


Try to read and understand Trolling is fun (as for u as for swaix) but at least he tried to understood what u've done before trolling


Soscuro Depelle (Knights of the Black Rose)
Benedictha (Officer of Knights of the Black Rose)

I can read, too

Still orange

[Malky]

and also eWK, eVON1, eVON2 and could solo also e-dragon pillar and so on..... never had issues and I was a CC caster with fire/water tree maxed for elemental damages. with ur AP u are almost useless in e-dragon..
and btw... I have only GS for mana burst with no epic items except dagger from last event...

Not that much in fact :

Me : 20% +75% clickie -> 195% of base spell damage before metamagics
You : 50% +75% clickie -> 225% of base spell damage

195/225 = 86.67%

Maximized/empowered/quickened polar ray
My cost : 43sp (my APs + event dagger + ring of thelis)
Your cost : 53sp (1 rank in each discount lines + dagger + ring)

43/53 = 81.13%

I'm doing ~86% of a full damage APs wizard (not calcing with crits here, but major lores reduces the AP effectiveness of all crit lines past the first rank) for ~81% of the sp the full APd wizzy will use, which basically means i can put other spells in the rotation during cooldowns and get pretty much the same DPS in the end. You could of course put more spells as well but you're gonna drain you sp pool much faster too.

Anyway, -14% damage is not anywhere near the 200% damage differential you mentionned earlier. Yet i'm saving sp when using wail, mass holds, self healing, etc...as well.

Everybody plays his arcane like he wants, my build suits my playstyle very well and that's it.

[swaix1982]

I can read, too

u can maybe read.. but u still don't understand

btw...

The sp numbers used here are my sample up the thread that was about NEB use for self healing. Since he used them (in a weird way, please show me those +200% enhancements) without specificating anything about what kind of spell he had in mind, i resorted to the last spell evoked with that precise sp cost... which is NEB.

with ur AP the spell points discount will be the same also for other spells, so what the ... are u talking about?

[Nephilia]

I can read, too

So... ? O_o

Not that much in fact :

Me : 20% +75% clickie -> 195% of base spell damage before metamagics
You : 50% +75% clickie -> 225% of base spell damage

195/225 = 86.67%

Not sure but I think 20+75= 95 (dunno the other 100 where come from, maybe u mean something I not considering... maybe not! Your math are correct anyway )

In this case u do 95% more damage and he do 125% more damage (assuming, even, that 50+75=125)!
And 95:x=125:100 ---> (95*100)/125 = 76
So u're doing 76% increment of damage of a full empowered damage liner before metamagic!
I don't want to math about crit (is soooo boring!) but I can ensure u that crit are the best thing a caster could have!!!

The sp numbers used here are my sample up the thread that was about NEB use for self healing. Since he used them (in a weird way, please show me those +200% enhancements) without specificating anything about what kind of spell he had in mind, i resorted to the last spell evoked with that precise sp cost... which is NEB.

The point of NEB and sp usage is that pale masters have it quite harder than WF archmages that only need to quicken their reconstructs when we have to maximize&quicken our bursts.

A starting wizard won't have conc/opp, torc & dq bracers magically when creating his toon so yes, self healing is gonna be a serious sp drain as soon as incoming damage overcomes the death aura healing. Add to this the fact that an epic searing light now does 250 dmg in average and you can see how often you'll need to burst your health up.

Still, when he said "sure.. but I will kill with 54 sp u will need at least 123 (41*3) sp cause of ur poor dmg....", he was referring to your damage line not your ability to self heal!
PM are good, great, tough etc. and got the ability to self heal almost like a FVS dps but... he was talking about another thing!
Anyway I like to joke (and I've got a lot of sense of humor) as much as I get tired soon about that so I'll go IT for the opener of this thread

PALE MASTER:
Go human (who's just 1 int point under drow, but got 2 more point in cos), max int, rest in cos.. and if u got some spare points put 'em in cha or str as u like
The first thing to u is to have a nice DC etc. and the second is stay alive


Skill: max out concentration (yes, u got quicken but u wouldn't know when and if u got to turn it off... better be ready ), umd, hide, move, balance and put 1 point into tumble at creation. rest where do u like

feats:
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell
Feat: (Human Bonus) Maximize Spell
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Level 3 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell
Level 5 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Spell Focus Enchantment
Level 6 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Necromancy
Level 9 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy
Level 10 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Heighten Spell
Level 12 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
Level 15 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Penetration
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Insightful Reflexes
Level 18 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment
Level 20 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Quicken Spell

I used the good line of fasttaco but i prefer to put empower before (1 spell all kill is worthless) and enchantment focus at lv 5 (I was used to use a lot charme monster and similar at that point )

Enhancement: Max out 2 line of damage (elec-cold if I can suggest), get 1 tier of each metamagic line, the pre-req ofc, 1-2 rank in wand&scroll mastery, capstone and all Int u can buy

Now go out and CC, kill and Nuke whatever u can see in your line of sight!!! XD

[Malky]

In this case u do 95% more damage and he do 125% more damage (assuming, even, that 50+75=125)!
And 95:x=125:100 ---> (95*100)/125 = 76
So u're doing 76% increment of damage of a full empowered damage liner before metamagic!

I'll take a spell damage exemple it should clear out things

Spell base damage 100

With 1 AP you've got 20+75=95% bonus, so the spell will deal 195 dmg without metamagics
With 7 APs you've got 50+75=125% bonus, so the spell will deal 225 dmg without metamagics

195/225=86.67 % in est with 1AP you're dealing ~86% of the damage you would have dealt with 7 APs

Lots of people think that gaining 5% from an enhencement means doing 5% more damage, but clickies lowers the actual DPS gain.

Take the same sample as just up there for each AP versus the previous AP and you'll see the diminishing returns :

100 base damage, with 75% clickie and no AP : 175 dmg
1st AP (+20% bonus) : 195 dmg (+11.43% dmg per cast over [no AP/75% clickie])
2nd AP (+5% bonus) : 200 dmg (+2.56% dmg per cast over [1 AP/75% clickie])
3rd AP (+5% bonus) : 205 dmg (+2.5% dmg per cast over [2 AP/75% clickie])
4th AP (+5% bonus) : 210 dmg (+2.44% dmg per cast over [3 AP/75% clickie])
5th AP (+5% bonus) : 215 dmg (+2.38% dmg per cast over [4 AP/75% clickie])
6th AP (+5% bonus) : 220 dmg (+2.33% dmg per cast over [5 AP/75% clickie])
7th AP (+5% bonus) : 225 dmg (+2.27% dmg per cast over [6 AP/75% clickie])

Here you can see what those APs really give to your DPS, high increase for the first one, but only between 2.27% and 2.56% for all the other ones.
When using eardweller the damage increase APs goes further down : the 7th AP only accounts for 2% of your DPS when using the eardweller clickie. (slightly different formula used here : 100x(1-(245/250)) is the % of your total damage you can attribute to the 7th AP when nuking)

Here's why spending 1AP on each damage/crit%/crit dmg lines is the most efficient way of allocating APs for a wizard... unless you spend all your time nuking things of course

Dunno for you, but i'm using wail & mass hold much, much more often than polar ray and people around me seem to be happy with that situation.

Not to mention : soloing elite dq2 with over 60% sp remaining at the end is somewhat fun when you have 2250 sp at start (no pots/bauble used ofc, just the 3 TT charges after buffing)

[FastTaco]

Dunno for you, but i'm using wail & mass hold much, much more often than polar ray and people around me seem to be happy with that situation.

2100/60(Improved Maximize/Quicken I) = 35
2100/51(Improved Maximize/Quicken III) = 41

You can cast 6(14%) more spells with Improved Quickening and Improved maximize to 3rd tiers, for 20 AP. That's way too many AP to spend there and I would only suggest getting the first tier of each metamagic enhancements.

That is assuming all spells that you cast use both Quicken+Maximize, not likely.

[Malky]

This is becoming fun, albeit a tad far away from what the OP asked.

Anyway, let's bring some more maths :

It takes you 12 APs to generate about 15% more damage on a boss (lightning&cold lines maxed instead of 1pt in each of them), i'm generous here 'cause if you spent more than 1pt in crit lines the returns are even worse.

Those dots do 1d6+20 per tick at cap base damage, which translate into 2x3x(1d6+20)/2=70.5 base damage per second once you get you're stacks of 3 dots, this is assuming no resist.

70.5x1.95x2.5=343 dps <- mine
70.5x2.25x2.5=396 dps <- yours

So you have spent 12 APs to get a 53 DPS increase for the group, and that only for boss fights that are long enough for us to stack 3 dots...

Do you really think 53 DPS will matter a lot when 8 melees are beating on the said boss ?


According to your calc i can cast 6 more mass holds than you before having to soak a pot.

Guess what's the DPS increase of 8 melees doing +50% damage during those holds ? not counting the SP saved on the healer's pool due to trash mobs not fighting back...

Even if it takes me 20 APs, i'm pretty sure they are more efficiently allocated than your 12 APs, raid wise.

You seem to be afraid about spending 20 APs on something, yet maxing one single elemental damage line with crit% and crit dmg lines as well costs 19 APs.... where's the difference ?