The Most Expensive Pair of Madstone Boots I've Ever Seen

[xveganrox]

One of my guildies put up an LFM for Reaver's Fate last night, and being on the seemingly endless search for Ventilated Bracers and a Head of Good Luck (I'll conquer the Cabal trap yet!) and off-timer, I joined along. I've got about ten RF runs under my belt, and I've had much better luck lootwise with it than any other raid – in those ten runs, I've gotten Madstone Boots twice (the first time I pulled them myself, the second time I wouldn't have rolled on them but nobody else wanted them! Yay caster raids), along with the Madstone Shield, Cloudburst, Dreamspitter, the Amulet, Treason, and the Ring of Lies. Naturally, then, I wasn't looking for anything but those two lovely items. But I digress – the raid filled up, with several people I know and like and then a few more I'd never met. It was a heavily melee party. At around 10/12 slots filled, people started going into the dungeon to wait inside, myself included, and somebody said something to this effect:


“Anyone who pulls Boots, I'll trade you an LDS for them.”


Now, I didn't care much about the boots personally, already having them, and my guildie and the several other people I knew didn't need or want them either, but that seemed a bit off. I've never seen anyone try to buy raid loot before. So, being a Chaotic Neutral sort of trouble-stirrer, I said something to the extent of:


“Buying raid loot? That's really classy ”


Several other people voiced their annoyance at that kind of playstyle, and the leader said in frank terms that anyone buying raid loot would not be welcome in future raids he leads. He told me personally then that he asked the person in question to refrain from that behavior or leave, but he refused. After a few rude messages in party chat, the would-be purchaser said:


“If you want to play Carella's way [my way] you can keep your boots or put them up for roll. If you have any common sense though, you can sell them to me and make a small fortune.”


And of course I had to be a smart aleck:


“I take it back, you're totally right. It's your game, play however you like =) fine with me.”
“And on a completely unrelated note, anyone who pulls Boots and keeps them or puts them up for roll will receive an LDS and large stone.”


Because I just couldn't resist. So of course, he responds:


“I'll give a FRDS and four LDS's for them. Beat that, big mouth.”


Well, I don't have any flawless reds, and offering that value in larges or anything else seems awfully silly at this point. But I was also being egged on and offered donations by various other party members (none of whom actually wanted the boots themselves). Still, I thought there might be a stronger impact if I linked something directly, so I gave it one more shot:


“Anyone who keeps the boots or puts them up for roll can have this nifty piece of paper I found the other day... Scroll Of The Sword Of Shadows”


To finish up – I'm not sure what the level 18 rogue who pulled the Madstone Boots got for them in trade (yes, the purchaser ended up getting them) but I'm sure he did pretty well for himself. In retrospect I certainly don't have any hard feelings about it, though there may be a few people on Cannith who won't want to party with them for a while. I'm actually pretty glad I didn't have to give up any of my loot just because I'm obstinate, too Although I'm a bit curious what the final price ended up being. And on a sort of related note... Was I sort of being a jerk? Do people bid on or purchase raid loot frequently (not counting Shroud ingredients, obviously)? Because I'm relatively new to the game, but I've only ever seen it once in dozens and dozens of raids.

[gwenniez]

only thing ive ever bid on is seals in echrono because im sick and tired of running that place..

i did bid 2 lds once for a seal of dunno think it was the cloak and the guy end up putting
them up for roll wich ofcourse meant that 10 people rolled on it.. go pug and echrono.. bad
combination.. i did roll a 99 or 100 tho so i end up winning them anyways and kept my 2lds altho
i did offer the guy the 2 lds anyways but he didnt wanted it..

for normal raid loot.. like reavers vod hox.. its kind of bad form tho.. i never did do it there nor will
I i end up refusing people too who tried to buy me off . its just that **** chrono and boa shards and
loot in combination with pugs thats ticking me off...

[Furare]

Someone offered me 500k for a Sword of Shadow (base item) in my first ever VoN raid, when I was on my first character ever at that level. It was more money than I had ever seen at that point. I said no and put it up for roll, even so, because it just seemed unfair to people who might want the item but couldn't afford to buy it. The person who won the roll sent me a tell afterwards saying he'd been looking for it for ages and was so pleased to finally have it. That more than made up for the abusive tells sent to me by the person who'd been trying to buy the sword. >.>

As for Madstones, someone offered me their Dreamspitter as a trade in chest when I pulled them on my rogue, but of course I had to take the boots. I've seen LFMs up on Khyber that specifically state in the LFM that the leader will pay <insert sum here> for the madstone boots, and not to join the group if you want them yourself. I never join those groups, even on my rogue who no longer really needs them. I guess buying and selling raid loot just doesn't sit right with me. (Though I would totally have taken a SoS scroll in exchange for keeping some lovely raid loot. Way more useful to me than a FRDS.)

[Alex301]

The only time i've seen someone make an offer for raid loot is when the person who pulled the item, i forget which raid and what item it was , and only one other person wanted it. The person who pulled it wasn't sure if they wanted to keep it so the other person offered some mats to sway their decision. Needless to say they made the trade and passed the raid item.

Since no one else wanted it i don't see anything wrong with this but this is about the only situation i think it's acceptable to bid on raid loot.

[Vellrad]

I remember soloing amrath quest, pulling vorne's belt and putting it for roll after some puggers joined for free loot.
One guy won, and sold it for 10 or 20 pots to other.
Its so annoying, your loot your call, but rolling for item to sell it deserves squelch, special place on friend list and giving name to couple of people.

[Arkat]

I'm totally ok with trading an item in the chest for another item in the chest.

Taking them, putting them up for roll, or passing to a needy person or just a guildy are also ok in my book.

Bidding on and paying for raid loot just seems wrong to me somehow. I get the whole "market" thing but still, this is a game. I sorta come here to get away from real-world concepts like "free-markets."

Just MY feelings on the matter.

[Zerkul]

One of my guildies put up an LFM for Reaver's Fate last night, and being on the seemingly endless search for Ventilated Bracers and a Head of Good Luck (I'll conquer the Cabal trap yet!) and off-timer, I joined along. I've got about ten RF runs under my belt, and I've had much better luck lootwise with it than any other raid – in those ten runs, I've gotten Madstone Boots twice (the first time I pulled them myself, the second time I wouldn't have rolled on them but nobody else wanted them! Yay caster raids), along with the Madstone Shield, Cloudburst, Dreamspitter, the Amulet, Treason, and the Ring of Lies. Naturally, then, I wasn't looking for anything but those two lovely items. But I digress – the raid filled up, with several people I know and like and then a few more I'd never met. It was a heavily melee party. At around 10/12 slots filled, people started going into the dungeon to wait inside, myself included, and somebody said something to this effect:


“Anyone who pulls Boots, I'll trade you an LDS for them.”


Now, I didn't care much about the boots personally, already having them, and my guildie and the several other people I knew didn't need or want them either, but that seemed a bit off. I've never seen anyone try to buy raid loot before. So, being a Chaotic Neutral sort of trouble-stirrer, I said something to the extent of:


“Buying raid loot? That's really classy ”


Several other people voiced their annoyance at that kind of playstyle, and the leader said in frank terms that anyone buying raid loot would not be welcome in future raids he leads. He told me personally then that he asked the person in question to refrain from that behavior or leave, but he refused. After a few rude messages in party chat, the would-be purchaser said:


“If you want to play Carella's way [my way] you can keep your boots or put them up for roll. If you have any common sense though, you can sell them to me and make a small fortune.”


And of course I had to be a smart aleck:


“I take it back, you're totally right. It's your game, play however you like =) fine with me.”
“And on a completely unrelated note, anyone who pulls Boots and keeps them or puts them up for roll will receive an LDS and large stone.”


Because I just couldn't resist. So of course, he responds:


“I'll give a FRDS and four LDS's for them. Beat that, big mouth.”


Well, I don't have any flawless reds, and offering that value in larges or anything else seems awfully silly at this point. But I was also being egged on and offered donations by various other party members (none of whom actually wanted the boots themselves). Still, I thought there might be a stronger impact if I linked something directly, so I gave it one more shot:


“Anyone who keeps the boots or puts them up for roll can have this nifty piece of paper I found the other day... Scroll Of The Sword Of Shadows”


To finish up – I'm not sure what the level 18 rogue who pulled the Madstone Boots got for them in trade (yes, the purchaser ended up getting them) but I'm sure he did pretty well for himself. In retrospect I certainly don't have any hard feelings about it, though there may be a few people on Cannith who won't want to party with them for a while. I'm actually pretty glad I didn't have to give up any of my loot just because I'm obstinate, too Although I'm a bit curious what the final price ended up being. And on a sort of related note... Was I sort of being a jerk? Do people bid on or purchase raid loot frequently (not counting Shroud ingredients, obviously)? Because I'm relatively new to the game, but I've only ever seen it once in dozens and dozens of raids.

Sorry for the short sentence:

W.T.F.!

[hityawithastick]

Seems pretty sleazy to me, but hey, sounds like that rogue made off with quite a haul.

[Mystera]

If someone wants to sell their raid loot who cares, it's their loot and their call. They can either:
1. Keep it
2. Trade it or sell it
3. Put it up for roll

What they do with it is their decision and doesn't have to conform to any other rules. Really gets annoying to see so many people try to tell someone what to do with their loot.

Now if said person puts their loot up for roll, then of course there is the expectation that those rolling on it are a toon that needs it and they WILL NOT trade or sell it after winning it.

[Uska]

I remember soloing amrath quest, pulling vorne's belt and putting it for roll after some puggers joined for free loot.
One guy won, and sold it for 10 or 20 pots to other.
Its so annoying, your loot your call, but rolling for item to sell it deserves squelch, special place on friend list and giving name to couple of people.

of course you had your lfm about the k-belt but I didnt have a problem with it since it was 2 free chests wish I had pulled one for you though

[Zerkul]

If someone wants to sell their raid loot who cares, it's their loot and their call. They can either:
1. Keep it
2. Trade it or sell it
3. Put it up for roll

[sarcasm = ON] Yeah, if everyone thinks as you do Mystera probably the game world would be better [/sarcasm = OFF] .
No offense but some "Good Common Sense" is not buried deep within the underdark of Xendrik, luckly i know Many people ingame that still have lots of it and wouldn't trade it for some piece of software. You do not have to act like the bad guy in PUGs "i'm all alone no one would give me loot i don't give it either" i tell you that good people are out there.

The concept is simple be Good not Bad: i do not agree with you.

[Purgatory]

Congradulations!

You manage to hurrase someone for no other reason then they are different then you.

do you want a cookie for being a internet bully?

[bjlinden]

The only person who was in the wrong here was the raid leader.

The guy who wanted to buy the boots is well within his rights to ask to do so.

Similarly, the person the boots dropped for is well within his rights to pass them to whomever he likes, for any reason he likes, including an offer to buy them or a bribe from someone who DOESN'T want him to sell them. Better that than just vendoring them, after all, which he also has every right to do.

Even the OP was well within his rights. For one thing, even if it may have been a little obstinate, it was all in good fun. If anybody doesn't like it, well, they can either grow a thicker skin or develop a sense of humor. Moreover, just as the potential buyer has the right to offer to buy it, the OP has the right to make a counter-offer, whether he actually wants the boots or not.

No, the only person in this scenario who annoyed me was the raid leader. I mean, seriously, "anyone buying raid loot would not be welcome in future raids he leads"? Get over yourself, Mr. Raid leader. You're nobody special, and what somebody decides to do with THEIR loot is no business of yours. Somebody wants to buy/sell raid loot? Fine. Somebody wants to keep it or give it away for free? Also fine. Being a self-righteous jerk about their decision? Not fine. It's their own business.

[Mystera]

The concept is simple be Good not Bad: i do not agree with you.

That's pretty vague Zerkul, and very subjective. So what exactly is your rule then? Are you saying that a person who pulls the loot doesn't have the right to 1) keep it 2) trade it or sell it 3) put it up for roll?

BTW, I'm not sure your attack on me is warranted, I've been in a lot of raids where people decide to trade their stuff. As for me personally, I've put a ton of stuff up for roll, even stuff I could have used but didn't fit everyone's 'perceptions' of a caster. Gods & Heroes will attest to that, ran plenty of raids where I pulled stuff and gave it to them when I was PUGing raids with them. However, I recognize everyone has the right to do with their loot what they want, and I tend to not get all worked up over their decisions. We had a couple of guildies leave and join Obsidian Dragons after decided to do 'what they wanted' with loot they pulled. At the end of the day they pulled it and did what they wanted with it.

[Srozbun]

Lots of people choose to offer on raid loot. That is their prerogative. The person who pulls the actual loot still has the choice of selling it, keeping it, putting it up for roll, or entertaining other offers.

What you did however, was ostracize him, and raise the stakes well above what the original bidder had proposed for no reason than to spite the guy and his playstyle. How does that make you any different or better than him?

[garynash7070]

Personally I would say that selling raid loot is not the right thing to do. I have been in-game for over 5 years and I have seen it all. There are several people I am sure will agree that offering to buy raid loot is bad Etiquette. I do believe that it is up to the person that pulls an item to do with it what they will, use, trade in chest, give it away, or eat it, but selling it? Don't think that is right because others in quest might be after that item too. Yes, that statement might seem to conflict or talk out of both ends, but in what I have seen it seems the right thing to do.

Enough said!

[cdemeritt]

I don't sell my raid loot...

But, I find no fault with the buyer, as he made the offer at the beginning of the raid, people could say no...
The only time I get upset is if the offer comes after an item goes up for a roll, and after "I" pass them to the winner of the roll, and the offer is made by someone who lost the roll...

But it all falls under the heading of "Worrying about other people's loot is a waste of time. Period."

Greed is human nature. No matter the circumstances, there will always be a way someone will "justify" being PO'd about someone else's loot. Even if it is the fighter who pulls a +3 STR tome or Rogue who takes the Tharns goggles, Someone will complain this item should have been theirs, and this person "stole" it from them...

Not worth it... Run it again until you get the item you want or move on. OP, I see your point, but don't care... It also seemed like you really didn't care either so what's your point?

[Buggss]

.....That more than made up for the abusive tells sent to me by the person who'd been trying to buy the sword. >.>....

This is far and away the most disturbing part of this thread; that an offer was made and rejected and the "offerer" sent inappropriate tells because of the refusal.

Seriously rude....

[Aaxeyu]

Fun story.
But what's wrong with buying raid loot again?
Selling I can understand, if someone is frequently selling their loot and still expect to roll when others put loot up for free they can considered to be greedy..

Buying loot on the other hand only seems like a nice thing to do. From the buyers perspective it is: "here, instead of putting the item up for roll for no returns let me give you some treasure for it instead".

[Alex301]

While i understand its your loot and you can do what you like with it, selling raid loot does feel wrong. I have seen a couple of cases where someone has tried to sell an item they've pulled, which subsequently lead to them being blacklisted by several members of the raid party.

Taking them, putting them up for roll, or passing to a needy person or just a guildy are also ok in my book.

I don't mind people passing loot they've pulled to guildies who need it, but what does annoy me is when someone else puts an item up for roll and all the members of a guild roll for it. If one of them then wins they pass the item to the one guild member who needed it.