The Most Expensive Pair of Madstone Boots I've Ever Seen

[dingal]

It's different: the sir won at casino alone you are playing with people, not alone.

I see you are incapable of processing sarcasm.

No, I am opening a chest, for me, for loot that I want to own or profit from. I'll do what I want with my loot. I am not running this raid for you and I personally don't care if you're still wearing your winter boots, my madstones are MINE whether I'm on a cleric or a barbarian.

If I win at a blackjack table do the other players have the right to my win? We are playing together, we are all trying to beat the dealer.....so I suppose it's perfectly ok if I pull an ace that the other players demand to roll on it to use in their hand? BUT BUT YOU ALREADY HAVE AN ACE GIVE IT TO ME?!!!!

Get over yourself and be thankful if someone puts something up for roll and stop whining when they choose to do something else with it.

I paid a charged gauntlets scroll for a +4 int tome 3 weeks ago even though the guy who pulled it was a ranger and I was the only int based toon in the party. Do I begrudge him for selling it? Hell no. I got a +4 int tome out of the deal and I certainly understand why he would want to profit from such a rare and exceptional drop.

[grayham]

I'm in the camp of 'your loot is your loot'. To get my first pair of madstones I offered a dreamspitter as trade (only got another as 20th reward). Most of the time I'll just give away what I don't need, and wouldn't start putting it up for the highest bidder, but if someone-such as mentioned in original post-wants to stake a claim for an item by offering lds or whatever then fine.

[dingal]

I'm in the camp of 'your loot is your loot'. To get my first pair of madstones I offered a dreamspitter as trade (only got another as 20th reward). Most of the time I'll just give away what I don't need, and wouldn't start putting it up for the highest bidder, but if someone-such as mentioned in original post-wants to stake a claim for an item by offering lds or whatever then fine.

Perfectly reasonable. I've sold one item in chest but only after someone begged to buy it. I either pass to guildies or put loot up for roll almost every time. But I reserve the right to do whatever the eff I want to with it. It's mine.

[Aaxeyu]

I don't feel entitled in nothing, it's simply an act of courtesy to give away what you will not use: an act to do but to not expect, except from those that think it your way.
I'm the first one to give away his loot if i don't need something and i deal with people who pass directly loot to other people without asking the others for roll everyday. I simply don't invite these kind of people in my party raids that's all: if you are guest in my guild raids you will be entitled to roll everything just like any other party member, an if we want to give a piece of loot you need as well to a guildie of ours that need it, we'll simply put it for roll for you and for our guildie.

You did say that you are entitled to someone elses loot:

As part of a party other people contributed and they have the same right as you to loot something. If someone don't need something for himself, he have to put it up for roll

It's quite clear isn't it?

The "your loot is your loot" clause implies that you think that other players are free to do whatever they want with their loot because it's theirs.
That is different from the "your loot is your loot, but if you don't do it as I want I will blacklist you" policy that you actually have.
Your way of looting may work great and all, but you are being hypocritical and dishonest about it and you treat it as it's the only right way to do it.

[Zerkul]

You did say that you are entitled to someone elses loot:

It's quite clear isn't it?

The "your loot is your loot" clause implies that you think that other players are free to do whatever they want with their loot because it's theirs.
That is different from the "your loot is your loot, but if you don't do it as I want I will blacklist you" policy that you actually have.
Your way of looting may work great and all, but you are being hypocritical and dishonest about it and you treat it as it's the only right way to do it.

Sometimes languange gets in the way i'm not mother tongue english. Anyway that's how we administrate loot with guildies and guests. You loot something decide if to keep or give for roll: no other alternatives.

[AtomicMew]

To the person who suggested they would have reported me for harassment - I can't help but think you're misreading the sutuation. I wasn't trying to ostracize anyone, I was simply offering ano incentive for others to use my looting system in a way similar to the way the seller was incentivizing his looting system.

So you WERE actually willing to give an sword of shadows scroll to anyone who put the boots up for roll? That's, as nicely as I can put, a total lie.

In reality, you offered no tangible incentive to prevent people from putting boots up for sale, other than the incentive of not being put on blacklists.

What you did do is force the buyer to pay more for the boots than he would have, when you had no interest in buying the boots for yourself. As far as I'm concerned, that's a pretty asinine action. At bare minimum, it's harassment and trolling.

[xveganrox]

So you WERE actually willing to give an sword of shadows scroll to anyone who put the boots up for roll? That's, as nicely as I can put, a total lie.

I made it clear I was, actually - Pretty sure all parties involved can attest to that. Not very well-thought-out on my part? Maybe. Was I lucky the seller didn't realize the scroll was worth more than a flawless red and some scales? Probably. But like I said, I can be a bit obstinate :P I'd appreciate you not calling me a liar, though.

[Noelemahc]

Why are we still having discussions like this on the forum? Every week there's new drama about loot and so and so did x, y, or z and it wasn't fair. Then some people will rally with the person complaining, and some will troll that person going "lolz ur dumb". Let the loot issue go already.

If you don't like how a group of people handle loot, don't invite them back to your raids or don't join their groups anymore. That's all there is to it. End of discussion.

[Braegan]

Yay Drama! \o/

Really where this story went south was when the "buyer" made his intentions clear at the start of the raid, got the dismay of the raid leader and some of the group and then was not booted from group or reformed around.

Seriously, why wait? If someone wants to do something that you would exclude them from future runs for and you haven't already started then /remove player.

Facts are folks run with all sorts of notions of what is ok and what is not ok to do with raid loot. Run with folks that share your views and you will have less stress. Of course that comes with the downside of less drama.

Also, if you run with any kind of loot rules (everyone open to roll, no guildie favoritism, etc) then that should be stated at the begining of the run. Personally, I don't mind going with the flow even if it seems a lil silly to me; but I stongly dislike being told aftermath that I violated some unspoken "rule."

[Zerkul]

Why are we still having discussions like this on the forum? Every week there's new drama about loot and so and so did x, y, or z and it wasn't fair. Then some people will rally with the person complaining, and some will troll that person going "lolz ur dumb". Let the loot issue go already.

If you don't like how a group of people handle loot, don't invite them back to your raids or don't join their groups anymore. That's all there is to it. End of discussion.

True. +1 .

[Claymorep]

Anywat at the state of the server it's a fact that there are people that plays with other people and guilds that plays with other guilds. I love our philosofy and to play with PLAYERS with the same or near same philosofy or know what he is doing joining our pug. It's not a mistery that some players where forced to migrate to other server because in this server all know their way of questing and loot... There were s**t-looters and someone gone for the happyness of a lot of people

In pug someone asked with which alt You are rolling before opening the chest (we have a different loot rule, but this is anyway respectable and I accept as all that joined that party) With some others guildy we have a very good behaviour and we like to play with them and so them considering we ask each other if there are toons free from timer and so on. (Reaver and shorud are not in this category for obvious reason, so I know that I f I join a Reaver I can find the bad of the hole of the server, but I know I'm doing for completions and will help me to meet other possible friends or blacklisted

Others time I see pugs with 2-3 alts that I know they pass loot to friends and guildy and for me it's a ninja and not so different the idea to sell loot. I like to see that lfm to remain open 1 hour...

Probaly it's better to explain what we consider a loot and our loot policy.
A loot suitable for roll is a BOUND item
Your loot is your loot and you can take for that alt or another alt (primary or secondary), if you don't need it is for roll to everyone that participate in the raid. Clearly if a sos (item) dropped it is for roll to those that will use it (a sos for a sorcerer with a pure caster build is near useless), but if he likes for skin or for anything else he can loot on his own or wait the 20' completion.

So every time I quest with guildy, friends or friendly guilds I know that it will be harder to wipe because a lot of that alts are very good equipped (probaly because I putted for roll something that have) while it's not a mistery that some guilds have 2-3 players with 3-4 alts superequipped and the rest of the guild or pugs miss a lot and they need to do a raid 2-3 times due to wipes...

This is a GROUP/TEAM/PARTY MMO in which You play with other guys vs something else, it's not ala "DIABLO" in which everyone is solo vs all. We need cooperation, skills, tactics, different classes and this why I love this game (toghether with other 100 reasons) but a similar behaviour (sell bta/c items or ninja them) is the reason that take me to hate this game...

Fortunatly I play with guys that think like me and I don't have to worry a lot about the hate reason

If You are my friend or friend of a friend You can call my help everytime! If I don't know You call me anyway, I'll be very happy to be of some help! But don't let me discover You are a fail as PERSON or You'll continue to play with only half server!!!

PS. To all friends: You are not alone and sorry for my english.

[Diavolaccio_Rosso]

i think the only answer is....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAvSA...layer_embedded

[Chai]

You did say that you are entitled to someone elses loot:

It's quite clear isn't it?

The "your loot is your loot" clause implies that you think that other players are free to do whatever they want with their loot because it's theirs.
That is different from the "your loot is your loot, but if you don't do it as I want I will blacklist you" policy that you actually have.
Your way of looting may work great and all, but you are being hypocritical and dishonest about it and you treat it as it's the only right way to do it.

That is the way the game works after all. Do what you want with your loot. However, understand also that people will group with who they want. One situation has great influence over the other.

The reality is here that most of these raids dont take 12 people to complete. Why then do we fill the raid groups up? The answer of course is more shots at loot. Buying, selling, rolling on it for a friend, are all things that sway the probability of "more shots at loot" to those people in the favor of the situation. This of course does not bode well to those not in favor in the situation. Thus....When people are fair about it, they get invited back. When they arent, their LFMs look like ghost towns. I know who the people are who sell loot on the servers I play on, and the repeat offenders usually end up only hanging out with other repeat offenders.

Sarlona especially is pretty tight with this because there are channels and large groups of cross guild raid puggers. Its like living in a small pixelated town. They know what you did last summer.

[Aaxeyu]

That is the way the game works after all. Do what you want with your loot. However, understand also that people will group with who they want. One situation has great influence over the other.

The reality is here that most of these raids dont take 12 people to complete. Why then do we fill the raid groups up? The answer of course is more shots at loot. Buying, selling, rolling on it for a friend, are all things that sway the probability of "more shots at loot" to those people in the favor of the situation. This of course does not bode well to those not in favor in the situation. Thus....When people are fair about it, they get invited back. When they arent, their LFMs look like ghost towns. I know who the people are who sell loot on the servers I play on, and the repeat offenders usually end up only hanging out with other repeat offenders.

That only goes to show that the so called "your loot is your loot policy" is very rare in practise. People do care what other people do with their loot, but are afraid to say it.

[Braegan]

That only goes to show that the so called "your loot is your loot policy" is very rare in practise. People do care what other people do with their loot, but are afraid to say it.

I have to agree with this.

Of course I do believe my way is the best, that's why it's my way.

[Chai]

Naaa its two different concepts, which relate to eachother in an action reaction manner.

It IS your loot. This is ALWAYS in practive.

It IS their decision to group with you later on or not. This is also ALWAYS in practice.

Im pretty sure those who sell loot know they are doing something the majority doesnt agree on, in most cases. This is fine to have a different opinion and practice it, but they know what they are getting themselves into.

[AtomicMew]

Naaa its two different concepts, which relate to eachother in an action reaction manner.

It IS your loot. This is ALWAYS in practive.

It IS their decision to group with you later on or not. This is also ALWAYS in practice.

Yes, these two statements are self-evident.

But that doesn't explain why you feel you need to blacklist people who sell loot. It seems to me like that says more about you than it does about them.

[knightgf]

Sounds like cannith is a pretty poor server to play on if this is true.

I hate to say this, but I have my regrets having Cannith as my home server. And the loot policies isn't quite the thing that makes me sad...

[Hafeal]

So the essence of the story, from what we are told in the OP:

One of my guildies put up an LFM for Reaver's ... the raid filled up ... and somebody said something to this effect:

“Anyone who pulls Boots, I'll trade you an LDS for them.”

Now, I didn't care much about the boots personally, already having them, and my guildie and the several other people I knew didn't need or want them either, but that seemed a bit off. I said something to the extent of:

“Buying raid loot? That's really classy ”

Several other people voiced their annoyance at that kind of playstyle, and the leader said in frank terms that anyone buying raid loot would not be welcome in future raids he leads.

And of course I had to be a smart aleck:

“I take it back, you're totally right. It's your game, play however you like =) fine with me.”

So, we have an lfm, with no restrictions as to raid loot, freely joined and an offer from a party member for a specific pulled item - to be freely accepted or not. And the OP, by admission twice incites or escalates the conversation regarding the offer with an opinion unrelated to the fact that no restriction was listed in the lfm - and the guild leader says in future raids he will not allow this. But the OP, still not being happy, even though he did not really care, urges and conjoles his guild members to mock the offeror for his offer and, in fact, ups the price. Hmmm ... who was the classy one here?

As for the price - who cares? An item is worth what a willing buyer and seller are willing to exchange at the given time - and if you have plenty of good items and wish to exchange them for something you have been unable to pull, so be it.

[TheDjinnFor]

Buying raid loot is legit, get off your high horse. If you don't like it your recourse is to add them to your DNG list, not mock and insult them or attempt to sabotage their attempts to gear out their toons. Bidding for loot is no more or less fair then taking along 10 other guildies and not putting anything up for roll for that 1 pug slot, or swapping raid chest drops.

The only time it's even remotely questionable is when you roll on something and then sell it after... although to be quite honest if the person attempting to get the item announces their intention and whoever pulls it still puts it up for roll, it's really nobodies fault but their own.